Do babies go to heaven?

[awaken]

"If a baby dies, does it automatically go to heaven?"

Many people believe that if a child dies before reaching an "age of accountability," then that child will go to heaven. The idea is that infants and young children are not mature enough to understand about sin and about Jesus' sacrifice for our sins, and therefore they're not held accountable for sin. Scripture seems to support this idea.

 

[annsni]

The Bible just doesn't tell us one way or the other. However, we know that God rightly judges and will do what is right for anyone who dies.

 

[awaken]

The Bible just doesn't tell us one way or the other. However, we know that God rightly judges and will do what is right for anyone who dies.

Maybe I should have ask a different question...

Pastors, Bible teachers, etc., sometimes say that Christians are "spiritually alive," and non-Christians are "spiritually dead." These terms can be misleading unless we understand what they really mean.

1 Thessalonians 5:23 says that we're made up of "spirit, soul and body."
Our body is aware of the physical world around us, and our spirit is aware of God within us, and everything else is our soul, which is aware of "self." Pastors and Bible teachers often describe the soul as being made up of our mind (what we think), our will (what we want), and our emotions (what we feel). Every human, whether Christian or non-Christian, is made up of a body, a soul, and a spirit, right?

When I say that non-Christians are "spiritually dead," this is not intended to mean that they are dragging around a dead "spirit corpse" everywhere they go. The Bible never says that a spirit can die, whether it's a demonic spirit, an angelic spirit, a human spirit, or God's Spirit. Instead, being spiritually dead means being separated from the life that is in Christ. For example, notice how Jesus defined eternal life:

John 17:3: "Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent."

In the above passage, Jesus defined eternal life in terms of a relationship with God. Only the righteous will have "life" eternally, because we will be in a relationship with God eternally.

Are children spiritually dead or alive?

 

[plain_n_simple]

Maybe I should have ask a different question...

Pastors, Bible teachers, etc., sometimes say that Christians are "spiritually alive," and non-Christians are "spiritually dead." These terms can be misleading unless we understand what they really mean.

1 Thessalonians 5:23 says that we're made up of "spirit, soul and body."
Our body is aware of the physical world around us, and our spirit is aware of God within us, and everything else is our soul, which is aware of "self." Pastors and Bible teachers often describe the soul as being made up of our mind (what we think), our will (what we want), and our emotions (what we feel). Every human, whether Christian or non-Christian, is made up of a body, a soul, and a spirit, right?

When I say that non-Christians are "spiritually dead," this is not intended to mean that they are dragging around a dead "spirit corpse" everywhere they go. The Bible never says that a spirit can die, whether it's a demonic spirit, an angelic spirit, a human spirit, or God's Spirit. Instead, being spiritually dead means being separated from the life that is in Christ. For example, notice how Jesus defined eternal life:

John 17:3: "Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent."

In the above passage, Jesus defined eternal life in terms of a relationship with God. Only the righteous will have "life" eternally, because we will be in a relationship with God eternally.

Are children spiritually dead or alive?

Awesome thread. You are right, it is totally about relationship. I believe each will be given grace. Only God knows the heart, and would that none perish.

 

[Jedi Knight]

2 Samuel 12 has the answer tucked away for you to find. :jesus:

 

[awaken]

2 Samuel 12 has the answer tucked away for you to find. :jesus:

Some people also use that verse as evidence that infants automatically go to heaven:

2 Samuel 12:23: "But now that he is dead, why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I will go to him, but he will not return to me.""

That describes King David's grief over the death of his infant son. The argument here is that David said that he will go to be with his son, which implies that his son must be in heaven because it's clear that David would go to heaven (for example, God says that David was a man after His own heart - Acts 13:22). However, this is probably reading too much into this verse. The ancient Jews had the concept of Sheol, which was "the place of departed spirits" or simply "the grave". Every dead person went to Sheol, and therefore David was probably just saying that one day he too will go to Sheol, where his son went.

 

[awaken]

In the following passage, Jesus said that He is the "life," and once again He put this in the context of a relationship with God:

John 14:6: "Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."
John 14:7: "If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.""

The apostle John said that eternal life involves remaining in the Son and in the Father:
1 John 1:1: "That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched--this we proclaim concerning the Word of life."
1 John 1:2: "The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us."

1 John 2:24: "See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father."
1 John 2:25: "And this is what he promised us--even eternal life."

1 John 5:11: "And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son."
1 John 5:12: "He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life."

1 John 5:20: "We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true--even in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life."

What it boils down to is that a spiritually dead person does not have the life of Christ in him, and therefore he won't go to heaven if he dies in that state. If a person will go to heaven when he dies then by definition he is spiritually alive because he has a relationship with God. There's no such thing in the Bible as a person going to hell who is spiritually alive, and there's no such thing in the Bible as a person going to heaven who is spiritually dead.

Therefore, if infants go to heaven then by definition are they spiritually alive?

 

[Jedi Knight]

Some people also use that verse as evidence that infants automatically go to heaven:

2 Samuel 12:23: "But now that he is dead, why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I will go to him, but he will not return to me.""

this is probably reading too much into this verse.

I think it's a blessed assurance David was expressing and the verse speaks for it's self.

 

[Greektim]

The Bible just doesn't tell us one way or the other. However, we know that God rightly judges and will do what is right for anyone who dies.

Bingo!!!!!!!!! (excessive exclamation points to meet the minimum characters)

 

[awaken]

Before people place their faith in Jesus for salvation, they're referred to as being "lost" or "unrighteous" or "sinners," and they will end up in the Lake of Fire ( hell) if they die in that state. They are spiritually dead. But when they trust in Christ for salvation, notice what happens to them. They are "born of God" (John 1:12-13), they are "born again" (John 3:3), the Spirit "gives birth to spirit" within them (John 3:6), they are "born of the Spirit" (John 3:8), they become "a new creation" (2 Corinthians 5:17), they become "a new creation" (Galatians 6:14-15), they "put on the new self" (Colossians 3:9-10, Ephesians 4:22-24), they are given "new birth" (1 Peter 1:3), they are "born again" (1 Peter 1:23), they are "born of God" (1 John 5:1), and so on.

In other words, when we receive salvation through faith in Jesus then we receive the new birth. We are born again. We have new life. We are spiritually alive and we will go to heaven when we die.

 

[Iconoclast]

._____ Elect infants dying in infancy are regenerated and saved by Christ through the Spirit; who worketh when, and where, and how he pleases; so also are all elect persons, who are incapable of being outwardly called by the ministry of the Word.
( John 3:3, 5, 6; John 3:8 )

At conception they are dead in Adam....all elect infants are saved by the blood of Christ as any other sinner is.....not because they are infants...but because God has mercy on them.

 

[awaken]

._____ Elect infants dying in infancy are regenerated and saved by Christ through the Spirit; who worketh when, and where, and how he pleases; so also are all elect persons, who are incapable of being outwardly called by the ministry of the Word.
( John 3:3, 5, 6; John 3:8 )

At conception they are dead in Adam....all elect infants are saved by the blood of Christ as any other sinner is.....not because they are infants...but because God has mercy on them.

Why just some infants? How is one accountable and the other is not?

 

[awaken]

Let me throw this out there and see what some of you think...

Now that we have a better idea of what it means to be spiritually alive or spiritually dead, notice that the apostle Paul said that he "died" as a result of becoming aware of sin, and notice that he was alive until that happened (verse 9):

Romans 7:1: "Do you not know, brothers--for I am speaking to men who know the law--that the law has authority over a man only as long as he lives [zao in the Greek]?"
Romans 7:2: "For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive [zao in the Greek], but if her husband dies [apothnesko in the Greek], she is released from the law of marriage."
Romans 7:3: "So then, if she marries another man while her husband is still alive [zao in the Greek], she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies [apothnesko in the Greek], she is released from that law and is not an adulteress, even though she marries another man." ...

Romans 7:9: "Once I was alive [zao in the Greek] apart from law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died [apothnesko in the Greek]."

In verse 9 , notice that Paul didn't say, "Once I was happy apart from law," and he didn't say, "Once I was at peace in my conscience apart from law," and so on. Paul said, "Once I was alive apart from law," and then he said that he "died" when he learned of the commandments. In verses 1 to 3, Paul talked about individual people being alive or dead, and then in verse 9 he talked about himself being alive and being dead using the same Greek words as in verses 1 to 3. In verse 9 he was talking about his own personal death. When Paul said that he died, he obviously didn't die physically because he wouldn't have been able to write the above passage. He died spiritually, meaning that he would not have gone to heaven and would not have had eternal life with Christ if he had physically died in that state. Here's what a Bible commentary says about this verse:

"Evidently the apostle was speaking of his personal experience as a child and perhaps even a youth prior to his awareness and understanding of the full impact of God's commandments. ... The result was that the principle of sin within made its presence and power known (it sprang to life) in his violations of the commandment. As a result Paul died spiritually" (The Bible Knowledge Commentary, Walvoord and Zuck, Dallas Theological Seminary, p.466-467, emphasis added)

According to Paul's example, we were all spiritually alive as children until sin "sprang to life" within us through an awareness or understanding of sin. At that point we died spiritually.

Would you say that this supports the view that infants and young children are spiritually alive and will go to heaven if they die.

 

[plain_n_simple]

Let me throw this out there and see what some of you think...

Now that we have a better idea of what it means to be spiritually alive or spiritually dead, notice that the apostle Paul said that he "died" as a result of becoming aware of sin, and notice that he was alive until that happened (verse 9):

Romans 7:1: "Do you not know, brothers--for I am speaking to men who know the law--that the law has authority over a man only as long as he lives [zao in the Greek]?"
Romans 7:2: "For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive [zao in the Greek], but if her husband dies [apothnesko in the Greek], she is released from the law of marriage."
Romans 7:3: "So then, if she marries another man while her husband is still alive [zao in the Greek], she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies [apothnesko in the Greek], she is released from that law and is not an adulteress, even though she marries another man." ...

Romans 7:9: "Once I was alive [zao in the Greek] apart from law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died [apothnesko in the Greek]."

In verse 9 , notice that Paul didn't say, "Once I was happy apart from law," and he didn't say, "Once I was at peace in my conscience apart from law," and so on. Paul said, "Once I was alive apart from law," and then he said that he "died" when he learned of the commandments. In verses 1 to 3, Paul talked about individual people being alive or dead, and then in verse 9 he talked about himself being alive and being dead using the same Greek words as in verses 1 to 3. In verse 9 he was talking about his own personal death. When Paul said that he died, he obviously didn't die physically because he wouldn't have been able to write the above passage. He died spiritually, meaning that he would not have gone to heaven and would not have had eternal life with Christ if he had physically died in that state. Here's what a Bible commentary says about this verse:

"Evidently the apostle was speaking of his personal experience as a child and perhaps even a youth prior to his awareness and understanding of the full impact of God's commandments. ... The result was that the principle of sin within made its presence and power known (it sprang to life) in his violations of the commandment. As a result Paul died spiritually" (The Bible Knowledge Commentary, Walvoord and Zuck, Dallas Theological Seminary, p.466-467, emphasis added)

According to Paul's example, we were all spiritually alive as children until sin "sprang to life" within us through an awareness or understanding of sin. At that point we died spiritually.

Would you say that this supports the view that infants and young children are spiritually alive and will go to heaven if they die.

Yes. It also agrees with love thinks the best. Our Father is love, and is not legalistic.

 

[Winman]

Let me throw this out there and see what some of you think...

Now that we have a better idea of what it means to be spiritually alive or spiritually dead, notice that the apostle Paul said that he "died" as a result of becoming aware of sin, and notice that he was alive until that happened (verse 9):

Romans 7:1: "Do you not know, brothers--for I am speaking to men who know the law--that the law has authority over a man only as long as he lives [zao in the Greek]?"
Romans 7:2: "For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive [zao in the Greek], but if her husband dies [apothnesko in the Greek], she is released from the law of marriage."
Romans 7:3: "So then, if she marries another man while her husband is still alive [zao in the Greek], she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies [apothnesko in the Greek], she is released from that law and is not an adulteress, even though she marries another man." ...

Romans 7:9: "Once I was alive [zao in the Greek] apart from law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died [apothnesko in the Greek]."

In verse 9 , notice that Paul didn't say, "Once I was happy apart from law," and he didn't say, "Once I was at peace in my conscience apart from law," and so on. Paul said, "Once I was alive apart from law," and then he said that he "died" when he learned of the commandments. In verses 1 to 3, Paul talked about individual people being alive or dead, and then in verse 9 he talked about himself being alive and being dead using the same Greek words as in verses 1 to 3. In verse 9 he was talking about his own personal death. When Paul said that he died, he obviously didn't die physically because he wouldn't have been able to write the above passage. He died spiritually, meaning that he would not have gone to heaven and would not have had eternal life with Christ if he had physically died in that state. Here's what a Bible commentary says about this verse:

"Evidently the apostle was speaking of his personal experience as a child and perhaps even a youth prior to his awareness and understanding of the full impact of God's commandments. ... The result was that the principle of sin within made its presence and power known (it sprang to life) in his violations of the commandment. As a result Paul died spiritually" (The Bible Knowledge Commentary, Walvoord and Zuck, Dallas Theological Seminary, p.466-467, emphasis added)

According to Paul's example, we were all spiritually alive as children until sin "sprang to life" within us through an awareness or understanding of sin. At that point we died spiritually.

Would you say that this supports the view that infants and young children are spiritually alive and will go to heaven if they die.

You are new here, I have been pointing out Paul's statements for several years. There are many others that prove we are not born dead in sin as many falsely teach.

Read the three parables in Luke 15 which are one. The shepherd had 100 sheep, one was lost, the shepherd searched for it and recovered it. This sheep was not originally lost.

Next Jesus teaches of a woman with 10 silver coins. One is lost, she searches and recovers it. But originally it was not lost.

Then Jesus tells the parable of the prodigal son. Originally he was at home with his father. He left and went out in sin and became lost. When he repents and returns home, twice Jesus said the young man was alive AGAIN.

Luk 15:24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.

Luk 15:32 It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.

No one is born dead in sin. Men are made upright (Ecc7:29), but all men go astray in sin and become lost like the prodigal son. When we repent we are born again, we are alive AGAIN. Believe the words of Jesus and not the false teachings of men.

 

[HisWitness]

God didnt destroy Nineveh because the people could not discern between their right hand and their left hand-Jonah chap 4 verse 11

Now will some say that God will send a baby or even a litt child to hell that cant discern between good or evil nor has the capacity to do so?

i believe that babies and litt children and even the mentally disable people who cant discern good or evil(they are like little children)are what we would call being save(NOT SAVED)but also NOT held accountable for their sins while they are in that state.

 

[Iconoclast]

Why just some infants? How is one accountable and the other is not?

It does not say some infants...it says elect infants

 

[Iconoclast]

God didnt destroy Nineveh because the people could not discern between their right hand and their left hand-Jonah chap 4 verse 11

Now will some say that God will send a baby or even a litt child to hell that cant discern between good or evil nor has the compacity to do so?

i believe that babies and litt children and even the mentally disable people who cant discern good or evil(they are like little children)are what we would call being save(NOT SAVED)but also NOT held accountable for their sins while they are in that state.

This idea is false:type:

 

[webdog]

It does not say some infants...it says elect infants

By the very phrase it implies a subset of infants as non elect.

 

[Iconoclast]

Let me throw this out there and see what some of you think...

Now that we have a better idea of what it means to be spiritually alive or spiritually dead, notice that the apostle Paul said that he "died" as a result of becoming aware of sin, and notice that he was alive until that happened (verse 9):

Romans 7:1: "Do you not know, brothers--for I am speaking to men who know the law--that the law has authority over a man only as long as he lives [zao in the Greek]?"
Romans 7:2: "For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive [zao in the Greek], but if her husband dies [apothnesko in the Greek], she is released from the law of marriage."
Romans 7:3: "So then, if she marries another man while her husband is still alive [zao in the Greek], she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies [apothnesko in the Greek], she is released from that law and is not an adulteress, even though she marries another man." ...

Romans 7:9: "Once I was alive [zao in the Greek] apart from law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died [apothnesko in the Greek]."

In verse 9 , notice that Paul didn't say, "Once I was happy apart from law," and he didn't say, "Once I was at peace in my conscience apart from law," and so on. Paul said, "Once I was alive apart from law," and then he said that he "died" when he learned of the commandments. In verses 1 to 3, Paul talked about individual people being alive or dead, and then in verse 9 he talked about himself being alive and being dead using the same Greek words as in verses 1 to 3. In verse 9 he was talking about his own personal death. When Paul said that he died, he obviously didn't die physically because he wouldn't have been able to write the above passage. He died spiritually, meaning that he would not have gone to heaven and would not have had eternal life with Christ if he had physically died in that state. Here's what a Bible commentary says about this verse:

"Evidently the apostle was speaking of his personal experience as a child and perhaps even a youth prior to his awareness and understanding of the full impact of God's commandments. ... The result was that the principle of sin within made its presence and power known (it sprang to life) in his violations of the commandment. As a result Paul died spiritually" (The Bible Knowledge Commentary, Walvoord and Zuck, Dallas Theological Seminary, p.466-467, emphasis added)

According to Paul's example, we were all spiritually alive as children until sin "sprang to life" within us through an awareness or understanding of sin. At that point we died spiritually.

Would you say that this supports the view that infants and young children are spiritually alive and will go to heaven if they die.

This is not what romans 7 is talking about, or teaching at all.This idea is false .