Do Christians Believe they have received Divine truth ?

[Iconoclast]

"JonC,

What you are describing (the Spirit leading you to truth that is not in Scripture) IS by definition a second special revelation. It is the way of heretics and cultists.

Once Again, you cannot quote me saying any such thing.You cannot find that because once again ...I do not believe that.
I am not talking about second special revelation, I have not done it.


[QUOTE]We have our understanding, but the criteria is Scripture - not extrabiblical theories, not systematic theologies, not commentaries....but God's Word.
[/QUOTE]
Here is a Calvinist view of that;from the 1689 cof.

Chapter 1: Of the Holy Scriptures
1._____ The Holy Scripture is the only sufficient, certain, and infallible rule of all saving knowledge, faith, and obedience, although the light of nature, and the works of creation and providence do so far manifest the goodness, wisdom, and power of God, as to leave men inexcusable; yet are they not sufficient to give that knowledge of God and his will which is necessary unto salvation. Therefore it pleased the Lord at sundry times and in divers manners to reveal himself, and to declare that his will unto his church; and afterward for the better preserving and propagating of the truth, and for the more sure establishment and comfort of the church against the corruption of the flesh, and the malice of Satan, and of the world, to commit the same wholly unto writing; which maketh the Holy Scriptures to be most necessary, those former ways of God's revealing his will unto his people being now ceased.
( 2 Timothy 3:15-17; Isaiah 8:20; Luke 16:29, 31; Ephesians 2:20; Romans 1:19-21; Romans 2:14,15; Psalms 19:1-3; Hebrews 1:1; Proverbs 22:19-21; Romans 15:4; 2 Peter 1:19,20 )

 

[Iconoclast]

JonC,

I do not know who so many Christians have adopted such a low view of God's Word. I suspect it is because they have a low view of God and a high view of man.

I have no idea what you are talking about;
once again;
Chapter 1: Of the Holy Scriptures
1._____ The Holy Scripture is the only sufficient, certain, and infallible rule of all saving knowledge, faith, and obedience,

although the light of nature, and the works of creation and providence do so far manifest the goodness, wisdom, and power of God, as to leave men inexcusable; yet are they not sufficient to give that knowledge of God and his will which is necessary unto salvation. Therefore it pleased the Lord at sundry times and in divers manners to reveal himself, and to declare that his will unto his church; and afterward for the better preserving and propagating of the truth, and for the more sure establishment and comfort of the church against the corruption of the flesh, and the malice of Satan, and of the world, to commit the same wholly unto writing; which maketh the Holy Scriptures to be most necessary, those former ways of God's revealing his will unto his people being now ceased.
( 2 Timothy 3:15-17; Isaiah 8:20; Luke 16:29, 31; Ephesians 2:20; Romans 1:19-21; Romans 2:14,15; Psalms 19:1-3; Hebrews 1:1; Proverbs 22:19-21; Romans 15:4; 2 Peter 1:19,20 )

But with the odd introductions of censorship, Joel Osteen, and the Jehovah Witnesses this is starting to look more like a tantrum than a discussion

Nothing odd about it.Not to those who are following closely.

 

[Iconoclast]

JonC,

It is one thing to say that God led you where you are at and another to say that your understanding is divine truth.

And yet no one has posted that Go figure

 

[JonC]

Here you do it again;
[You do not use the words "second special revelation" but by definition that is what your words mean}

No, not all. If I do not use the words, then leave it right there. Do not ascribe words to me or any other poster that they did not post.I have said a dozen times now, If I need a "spokesman" I will ask for one. I do not however, so stop trying to do this..

Because YOU do not understand what is being discussed is no reason to apply your limited thoughts to everyone on the board. No one is speaking of special revelation at all.


No..I see it as being both, but that is a side issue.

Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away. Matthew 24:35

Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.’” Matthew 4:4

To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” John 8:31-32

 

[JonC]

JonC,



And yet no one has posted that Go figure

This is a discussion forum. We are not limited to repeating what you say. I do not know why you seem to be so argumentative, but you may want to examine your behavior.

When Christians interact on a message board do they post what they understand to be Divinely revealed truth?

Or is it just religious notions?

If a Christian posts about the Trinity, is it Revealed by God or speculation?

Your post is dishonest. The OP itself asks When Christians interact on a message board do they post what they understand to be Divinely revealed truth?

 

[JonC]

That was in response to your comment, "I took the OP to be less specific. For example, there have been some who argued that they were led to the truth of a paticular theological position by God even though that position is not fully articulated in Scripture. This idea is a continued special revelation."

It is your opinion that some have argued they have been led to the truth of a particular theological position by God even though that position is not fully articulated in scripture. Unless you have a quote from these "some" that they know their position is not fully articulated in scripture then it is a view you hold. You may feel strongly about it but it is still only Jon's opinion.



Jon, I came to my view on soteriology based on my understanding of scripture. Do I believe the Holy Spirit worked in my life to bring me to that understanding? Absolutely. I do not think this is a "revealing", as though God has bequeathed on me special knowledge that is not available to all. Imagine if I came to my current view based on my own understanding. I would then be rightfully charged with elevating my own understanding to the level of divine truth. Do I think that God revealed this understanding to me in a special way? Not special to me. If there is anything special, it is the work of the Holy Spirit in the lives of the people of God to make them more like Christ. What do I think of what God has revealed to Arminians? I obviously think Arminians are wrong, so I do not believe the Holy Spirit leads into all error. He leads into all truth.

I also think other positions than my own are wrong (obviously). Scripture is out standard.

I was addressing the question in the OP:

When Christians interact on a message board do they post what they understand to be Divinely revealed truth?

 

[Ken Hamrick]

Divine truth is revealed in Scripture. However, any book may claim to be God's revealed word. It is the Holy Spirit that authenticates to us that the Bible is the true word of God, inspired, trustworthy and inerrant. Even those who reject the Bible know in their innermost being that they are rejecting the truth.

 

[Reformed]

Reynolds,

.

Thank you Reynolds, that is considerate on your part. I am not wedded to the term in that sense, but labels are a time saver if you get to explain them.




Neither of these two options, but I think I see what you are searching for, so let me clarify my response for you.

I was raised RC, but I was not really a good one and easily drifted away during my teens.
Living in sin i used to be very hostile to Christians and my rebellion against God was growing. I was not seeking God, I fought against God, resisting. I might be the last person that people would have .

Starting reading the bible in my early twenties as I had never actually read a bible, we used a St.Josephs missal....

Read the first 11 chapters and put it down, got bogued down in what I was reading.
I was totally ignorant of the bible.
I did not know the Ot, From The NT....I did not know what the numbers meant.jn 6:44 I did not know that was chapter and verse.
I had no knowledge of theology whatsoever.
I did not know of Calvin,, Arminius, ECF, Puritans ...none of it.

Eventually found what I now know was the NT. read the gospels knew some of the miracle stories...feeding the 5000,etc

Eventually, God saved me from reading scripture alone. Before that, I was ashamed that I was reading a bible.

When i read Eph1 for the first time as a believer, I knew without any doubt, that God was God and everything was predestined right down to the people. I never struggled with it at all.
Keep in mind, I was totally naive of any of the theological terms or History...Just reading the scripture I began to mark each verse that mentioned, before the world was, predestined, elected, etc.

After that a friend I used to avoid because he announced he was a Christian, contacted me and told me of free tapes, two a week that i could get from Dallas theological seminary.
then i found out about several more free tape lending libraries, Media PA, Hot Springs ARK. I worked nights and could listen as i worked.
S.Lewis Johnson was one of the first ones who began using some of the terms,theological terms first, Atonement, reconciliation, propitiation,
He also started mentioning church history snippets, I had several legal pads and index cards full of notes and words I had to look up. I was making charts and diagrams , Then I heard this message of Conference echoes one night;

http://sg-audiotreasures.org/grace/03wd_limited.mp3

This tied in several of my highlighted verses so clear there was never any more wavering....i ordered to tapes that night, then 200 more. It was now fitting together.
Read Bancrofts elementary systematic theology first, then went to Berkofs, Then Daggs manual of theology, Jp.Boyce,Abstract of Systematic theology, bought a 15 volume set of Spurgeons sermons, sold that to a friend, and then bought the whole metropolitan tabernacle, and new park street pulpit......it happened like that, I have purposed to learn more since then.
Tried to find books that opposed the teaching, but went through them like a hot knofe through butter. The same errors repeated over and over....That is why the two options do not quite get it, lol

Freed from the bondage of Rome! I never grow tired of hearing that.

 

[1689Dave]

When Christians interact on a message board do they post what they understand to be Divinely revealed truth?

Or is it just religious notions?

If a Christian posts about the Trinity, is it Revealed by God or speculation?

1) I think most people post their convictions according to what they've been taught. They cling to these like "guns and religion" and hold fast when challenged. It is hard to peel white knuckles away from the idols people trust in.

2) I think some are sparking debate by posting notions they don't necessarily believe are true. But find entertaining, particularly the atheists and alternative religious types.

3) I think anyone can notice the trinity as they read scripture. But studying the ecumenical creeds helps us to mine the depth of the doctrine.

 

[Reformed]

"Reformed,



Yes, exactly. he has a right to any opinion he wants to hold. His opinion is not binding on the conscience of anyone else.

Brother, I am not trying to pick on @JonC and I hope he does not take it that way. Both of us were going back and forth and I was just trying to make a point. If I were to enlarge your comment I would say that no one's opinion is binding on the conscience of anyone else. My prayer is that we are all people of the Book and that we diligently seek the truth it contains. Thankfully, God has provided gifted men who have produced valuable research tools that aid in that seeking, but it is the Word itself that is the final authority for all matters of faith and practice.

 

[Reformed]

I think most people post their convictions according to what they've been taught. They cling to these like "guns and religion" and hold fast when challenged. It is hard to peel white knuckles away from the idols people trust in.

Dave, some do but it becomes subjective when we say "most people". I do not know what is going on in every single poster's mind. Judging motives is a dicey proposition. Even if we are right 90% of the time we are wrong 10% of the time and that 10% is a sin. Also, what if the convictions of others are correct? Not everything we are taught is false. How much of what you have been taught have you verified for yourself? The Bereans are an example of a group of people who did exactly that. They received the teachings of Paul and Silas and search the scriptures to see if their teaching was true (Acts 17:30).

 

[1689Dave]

Dave, some do but it becomes subjective when we say "most people". I do not know what is going on in every single poster's mind. Judging motives is a dicey proposition. Even if we are right 90% of the time we are wrong 10% of the time and that 10% is a sin. Also, what if the convictions of others are correct? Not everything we are taught is false. How much of what you have been taught have you verified for yourself? The Bereans are an example of a group of people who did exactly that. They received the teachings of Paul and Silas and search the scriptures to see if their teaching was true (Acts 17:30).

I'm basing this on a majority of anti-trinitarians on many sites. Some Mormons, Oneness Pentecostal etc. It's nice here with little to bicker over. But not so nice elsewhere.

 

[loDebar]

Be careful, sometimes there are plain teachings in Scripture. Such as nobody comes to the Father but through Christ.

This is certainly true , The Holy Spirit leads is to Christ, (His only duty) The only way to God is through Jesus, There is no other way to God. Reject the work of either and one cannot know God

 

[loDebar]

In a companion thought, How do we believe? Do you have to understand and teaching accept to believe? Do we believe in Faith?

 

[1689Dave]

In a companion thought, How do we believe? Do you have to understand and teaching accept to believe? Do we believe in Faith?

This might sound unusual at first, but faith comes by hearing the word. And I've learned to tell the difference between head faith and Holy Spirit faith. So when Holy Spirit faith is present as it relates to certain scripture, I know I have a true grasp on it. If it is not present, I'm not understanding the passage. Head faith will deceive me into all kinds of false understandings because I'm in control of it. And can turn it on at will.

 

[Iconoclast]

This is a discussion forum. We are not limited to repeating what you say. I do not know why you seem to be so argumentative, but you may want to examine your behavior.

Your post is dishonest. The OP itself asks When Christians interact on a message board do they post what they understand to be Divinely revealed truth?

Yes this is a discussion forum. I've nowhere said that any should or will limited to repeating what I say. People interact that's what a message board is about.
Then you say why do you seem to be so argumentative. Well it depends on the post I'm responding to .If someone is not speaking what I posted accurately,and changing it then it might look like an argument yep
Next you say that my post is dishonest no it's not. The OP. states when Christians interact on a message board do they post what they understand to be divinely revealed truth?
Yes they do. Jesus said you must be born again that's a divinely revealed truth. The death burial and resurrection and Ascension of the Lord Jesus Christ is a divinely revealed truth. Jesus reigning as Lord is a divinely revealed truth according to Peter He's made him both Lord and Christ.
Jesus is gathering in His Sheep.
We can be confident to present these truths..

 

[Iconoclast]

1) I think most people post their convictions according to what they've been taught. They cling to these like "guns and religion" and hold fast when challenged. It is hard to peel white knuckles away from the idols people trust in.

2) I think some are sparking debate by posting notions they don't necessarily believe are true. But find entertaining, particularly the atheists and alternative religious types.

3) I think anyone can notice the trinity as they read scripture. But studying the ecumenical creeds helps us to mine the depth of the doctrine.

Good positive input Dave.

 

[loDebar]

This might sound unusual at first, but faith comes by hearing the word. And I've learned to tell the difference between head faith and Holy Spirit faith. So when Holy Spirit faith is present as it relates to certain scripture, I know I have a true grasp on it. If it is not present, I'm not understanding the passage. Head faith will deceive me into all kinds of false understandings because I'm in control of it. And can turn it on at will.

Do you have to understand something to believe it?

 

[Dave G]

When Christians interact on a message board do they post what they understand to be Divinely revealed truth?

If they are posting the Scriptures themselves, it is Divinely revealed truth because that is what God's word is...His inspired word, revealed to and by His apostles, on the very pages.
If they are posting what they think the Bible says, then to me, they are posting what they think God has revealed to them.

If they are saved, then to me, they are posting "divinely revealed truth" in the sense that the Lord has revealed the Father to them ( Matthew 11:27 ), opened their understanding so that they might understand the Scriptures ( Luke 24:45 ), opened their hearts that they might attend to the things spoken of the preacher like the Lord did for Lydia ( Acts of the Apostles 16:14 ), begat them with the word of truth ( James 1:18 ) like He does for all of His children, made them a "spiritual man" instead of a "natural man" that is unable to discern the things of the Spirit ( 1 Corinthians 2:14-16 ), sealed them them with the Spirit so that they will ( eventually ) "know all things" and He becomes their Teacher ( 1 John 2:20-27 ) and makes it possible to rightly divide the truth the more they study it ( 2 Timothy 2:15 ).

Or is it just religious notions?

In an unregenerate person, yes.
In a "babe in Christ" that is carried about with every wind of doctrine, I believe so.
In a spiritually mature believer?

"Religious notions" are cast aside in favor of truth.

If a Christian posts about the Trinity, is it Revealed by God or speculation?

I suppose that depends upon perspective.


If dealing with the "Trinity" ( God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit being One ( 1 John 5:7 ) and agreeing in one, and they state it the same way that it is stated in that passage, then I would think they are posting what God has revealed to them.

 

[Dave G]

When Christians interact on a message board do they post what they understand to be Divinely revealed truth?

Or is it just religious notions?

If a Christian posts about the Trinity, is it Revealed by God or speculation?

To respond to the OP in general:

In 2 Corinthians 11:26, Paul mentions the fact that he has experienced perils ( dangers ) among false brethren.
That there were some that would trouble believers and would pervert the Gospel ( Galatians 1:7 ), some who had been brought it unawares ( Galatians 2:4 ), in order that they might spy out the believer's liberty, false teachers among believers who privately bring in damnable heresies ( 2 Peter 2:1 ), and false apostles that Satan can make to look like the ministers of God ( 2 Corinthians 11:13-15 )

According to Matthew 13:18-23, there are people who hear the word of God and it either becomes unfruitful in them, or it bears true spiritual fruit ( Galatians 5:22-23 ).
According to Matthew 13:36-43, there are "tares" ( false brethren ) among the "wheat" of Christ's field, and that He has said: " Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn." ( Matthew 13:30 )


So, there is no reason to believe that that hasn't changed from then until now, and based on my own personal observations, it's only become much worse over the centuries...especially in the latter half of the 20th and to present day.
Today, the churches are composed of both true believers and false ones...people who are saved, and people who only think they are saved.
People to whom Christ will say, "...Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:" ( Matthew 25:34 ), and people to whom He will say, " ...I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." ( Matthew 7:23 ), even though they thought they were doing the will of God and thought they were saved.

As a good example of this "mixture", I see that nowadays, most visible churches have abandoned biblical separation from the world and its ways altogether, and have adopted "baptized" forms of living worldly, while calling it "Christian".
Most have fallen away doctrinally into all kinds of error, and refuse to deal with it when confronted.
Most denominations are adopting "means" methods of getting people in the front door, instead of preaching the word and discipling those who respond in heart-felt conviction.
Most professing teachers deny things that the Bible clearly teaches...like the "Trinity", the "virgin birth" ( the Lord Jesus being born of the Holy Spirit ), Christ's Deity ( God coming down to us as a man ), Scriptural inerrancy, Scriptural preservation and all sorts of things.


Question:

Does anyone really think that the ones that are falling away into unrepentant error are God's Spirit-indwelt children who are refusing to obey Him over the long course of their lives?
I don't.
But even though Christ's sheep can, at times, be a mess and are not outwardly perfect, they do follow Him and they do grow both in knowledge and in grace ( 2 Peter 3:18 )...

"Goats" will not, when all is said and done.
They will follow the world, because they are not born again.
There is no one to follow, except their "father" the devil.


When Christians, both professing and "possessing" get together in any venue, whether in a visible body, on a message board, on Facebook, Twitter or anywhere else, there is always going to be a mixture of the two, at least in most cases.
So, one will post on what has been revealed to them by God, and one will post from their misunderstanding of Scripture and what the Lord has never opened their understanding to.

I realize it all sounds harsh, but I'm not desirous of avoiding what I see in God's word or in the world around me, so I post things as I see them.


May God bless you.