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Featured Do The Jews Worship God of the Bible Still?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Yeshua1, Mar 10, 2017.

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  1. Jope

    Jope Member
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    How come Genesis 17:7 says that God will be the Jews' God forever, regardless of if they believe?

    "I will confirm my covenant as a perpetual covenant between me and you. It will extend to your descendants after you throughout their generations. I will be your God and the God of your descendants after you" (NET). ​

    THAT is in the Bible, you know.
     
    #21 Jope, Mar 11, 2017
  2. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Misunderstanding?!? They choose NOT TO ACCEPT their Messiah Savior! Jews make a conscious decision not to accept......just as they made a conscious decision to murder Him.
     
    #22 Earth Wind and Fire, Mar 11, 2017
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  3. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Well, duh! God did not stop being God just because the Jews no longer believe in the True Messiah, God the Son.

    If an atheist does not believe in God does that make God go "poof" and stop being God?
     
    #23 TCassidy, Mar 11, 2017
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  4. Jope

    Jope Member
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    So do you acknowledge that you are a modern-day Marcion then?
     
    #24 Jope, Mar 11, 2017
  5. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    I am wasting my time. I show you FROM THE BIBLE that Jesus is Yahwah and you refuse to believe it.
     
    #25 TCassidy, Mar 11, 2017
  6. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    No. That is a lie straight out of the pit of hell.
     
    #26 TCassidy, Mar 11, 2017
  7. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Wow.....now you are getting personal. Tom is not saying anything except to think about understanding the total character of God. That includes Gods form as well as his requirements as God. The Jews totally disrespect their own savior.......just as they disrespected God through the years. And that disrespect comes with a price.....a new branch gets grafted in.
     
    #27 Earth Wind and Fire, Mar 11, 2017
  8. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Christians worship the God revealed in Hebrew Scriptures. But Jews do not worship the same God as they reject the fuller revelation (the exact representation) of the God revealed in Hebrew Scriptures. They claimed to worship God, but when God came they rejected Him. So the answer is no, they do not worship the same God.

    Here's the test - do they worship Christ? If not, then the answer has to be that they worship a different God. If the answer is yes, then they worship the same God.
     
    #28 JonC, Mar 11, 2017
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  9. Jope

    Jope Member
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    Maybe you'll be the first to provide some cogent rebuttal to my post then?
     
    #29 Jope, Mar 11, 2017
  10. Jope

    Jope Member
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    [HASHTAG]#strawman[/HASHTAG]

    He believes in the deity of Christ.
     
    #30 Jope, Mar 11, 2017
  11. Jope

    Jope Member
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    Marcion believed that the deity of the New Testament, Christ, is greater than the deity of the Old Testament.

    How is that any different from your belief?

    Did you know that the unbelieving Jews today don't regard the New Testament as scripture?
     
    #31 Jope, Mar 11, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2017
  12. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Galatians 3:15-29 Brethren, I speak in terms of human relations: even though it is only a man's covenant, yet when it has been ratified, no one sets it aside or adds conditions to it. Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, "And to seeds," as referring to many, but rather to one, "And to your seed," that is, Christ. What I am saying is this: the Law, which came four hundred and thirty years later, does not invalidate a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to nullify the promise. For if the inheritance is based on law, it is no longer based on a promise; but God has granted it to Abraham by means of a promise. ... For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's descendants, heirs according to promise.
     
    #32 JonC, Mar 11, 2017
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  13. Jope

    Jope Member
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    ...And?

    Are you trying to say that the Mosaic Covenant invalidates the Abrahamic covenant for the Jews or something? That's not what this passage says at all.
     
    #33 Jope, Mar 11, 2017
  14. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Simple. I believe nothing of the sort.
     
    #34 TCassidy, Mar 11, 2017
  15. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Well duh! (Again.) That is the whole point of the discussion.
     
    #35 TCassidy, Mar 11, 2017
  16. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Once again you miss the point.
     
    #36 TCassidy, Mar 11, 2017
  17. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    The Jews did not exist when Abraham was alive. His physical descendants include those outside of Isaac's line. Israel was not Isaac's only child. The Promise is the Seed, not seeds. The covenant is with Abraham's Seed (Gal. 3), and by design with those who are of that Seed.
     
    #37 JonC, Mar 11, 2017
  18. Jope

    Jope Member
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    Before Christ came, there was a division in the Jewish nation, those who were according to the "election of grace" (Rom 11) and those who were not. Just because a Jew was not elect, does not mean that God ceased to be his God. When Moses came to the Jews, he told them that the God of Abraham was their God (Dt. 29:13; Gen. 17:7). Only two men (Joshua and Caleb) were elect! It is the same in the present dispensation. The jewish unbelievers still have God as their God, even if they aren't the election of grace (Joshua and Caleb).

    Chafer's Systematic Theology, Eschatology, Ch. XVII:

    The entire eleventh chapter of Romans is devoted to proofs that Israel will never be cast off, but rather be restored to her covenanted blessings. Dr. C. I. Scofield has outlined this chapter in his Reference Bible: “That Israel has not been forever set aside is the theme of this chapter. (1) The salvation of Paul proves that there is still a remnant (v. 1). (2) The doctrine of the remnant proves it (vs. 2-6). (3) The present national unbelief was foreseen (vs. 7-10). (4) Israel’s unbelief is the Gentile opportunity (vs. 11-25). (5) Israel is judicially broken off from the good olive tree, Christ (vs. 17-22). (6) They are to be grafted in again (vs. 23, 24). (7) The promised Deliverer will come out of Zion and the nation will be saved (vs. 25-29). That the Christian now inherits the distinctive Jewish promises is not taught in Scripture. The Christian is of the heavenly seed of Abraham (Gen_15:5-6; Gal_3:29), and partakes of the spiritual blessings of the Abrahamic Covenant (Gen_15:18, note); but Israel as a nation always has its own place, and is yet to have its greatest exaltation as the earthly people of God” (p. 1204).​
     
    #38 Jope, Mar 11, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2017
  19. anerlogios

    anerlogios Member
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    I believe Jews today worship and know God in the same way as Abraham, Moses, and David did.
     
    #39 anerlogios, Mar 11, 2017
  20. TCassidy

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    Who believed in Messiah. Do you think Jews today believe in Jesus as the Messiah (other than a few Messianic Jews)?
     
    #40 TCassidy, Mar 12, 2017
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