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Do The Jews Worship God of the Bible Still?

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J

Jope

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TCassidy said:
Do you really know so little about the bible?
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How come Genesis 17:7 says that God will be the Jews' God forever, regardless of if they believe?

"I will confirm my covenant as a perpetual covenant between me and you. It will extend to your descendants after you throughout their generations. I will be your God and the God of your descendants after you" (NET).​

THAT is in the Bible, you know.
 
Earth Wind and Fire

Earth Wind and Fire

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Rob_BW said:
Well, I would definitely see a difference between Jews, who have a misunderstanding of true divine revelation, and the Muslims, who worship a human creation made from a caricature of true revelation.
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Misunderstanding?!? They choose NOT TO ACCEPT their Messiah Savior! Jews make a conscious decision not to accept......just as they made a conscious decision to murder Him.
 
TCassidy

TCassidy

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Jope said:
How come Genesis 17:7 says that God will be the Jews' God forever, regardless of if they believe?

"I will confirm my covenant as a perpetual covenant between me and you. It will extend to your descendants after you throughout their generations. I will be your God and the God of your descendants after you" (NET).​

THAT is in the Bible, you know.
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Well, duh! God did not stop being God just because the Jews no longer believe in the True Messiah, God the Son.

If an atheist does not believe in God does that make God go "poof" and stop being God?
 
Earth Wind and Fire

Earth Wind and Fire

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Jope said:
[Post deleted.]
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Wow.....now you are getting personal. Tom is not saying anything except to think about understanding the total character of God. That includes Gods form as well as his requirements as God. The Jews totally disrespect their own savior.......just as they disrespected God through the years. And that disrespect comes with a price.....a new branch gets grafted in.
 
JonC

JonC

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Yeshua1 said:
As the Apostle Paul stated that they were blinded, under the veil of Moses, and that while they were st present enemies of God . God had not forgotten His own Covenant people,and that their rejection was for the benefit of the gentiles, and not forever.

So would a modern day Jew be ralking about and praying to same God as we do, but due to them trejecting Jesus, they are no longer in Covenant relationship, but still the God of the Bible?
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Christians worship the God revealed in Hebrew Scriptures. But Jews do not worship the same God as they reject the fuller revelation (the exact representation) of the God revealed in Hebrew Scriptures. They claimed to worship God, but when God came they rejected Him. So the answer is no, they do not worship the same God.

Here's the test - do they worship Christ? If not, then the answer has to be that they worship a different God. If the answer is yes, then they worship the same God.
 
J

Jope

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TCassidy said:
No. That is a lie straight out of the pit of hell.
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Marcion believed that the deity of the New Testament, Christ, is greater than the deity of the Old Testament.

How is that any different from your belief?

Did you know that the unbelieving Jews today don't regard the New Testament as scripture?
 
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JonC

JonC

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Jope said:
Maybe you'll be the first to provide some cogent rebuttal to my post then?
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Jope said:
How come Genesis 17:7 says that God will be the Jews' God forever, regardless of if they believe?

"I will confirm my covenant as a perpetual covenant between me and you. It will extend to your descendants after you throughout their generations. I will be your God and the God of your descendants after you" (NET).​

THAT is in the Bible, you know.
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Galatians 3:15-29 Brethren, I speak in terms of human relations: even though it is only a man's covenant, yet when it has been ratified, no one sets it aside or adds conditions to it. Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, "And to seeds," as referring to many, but rather to one, "And to your seed," that is, Christ. What I am saying is this: the Law, which came four hundred and thirty years later, does not invalidate a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to nullify the promise. For if the inheritance is based on law, it is no longer based on a promise; but God has granted it to Abraham by means of a promise. ... For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's descendants, heirs according to promise.
 
J

Jope

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JonC said:
Galatians 3:15-29 Brethren, I speak in terms of human relations: even though it is only a man's covenant, yet when it has been ratified, no one sets it aside or adds conditions to it. Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, "And to seeds," as referring to many, but rather to one, "And to your seed," that is, Christ. What I am saying is this: the Law, which came four hundred and thirty years later, does not invalidate a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to nullify the promise. For if the inheritance is based on law, it is no longer based on a promise; but God has granted it to Abraham by means of a promise. ... For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's descendants, heirs according to promise.
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...And?

Are you trying to say that the Mosaic Covenant invalidates the Abrahamic covenant for the Jews or something? That's not what this passage says at all.
 
JonC

JonC

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Jope said:
...And?

Are you trying to say that the Mosaic Covenant invalidates the Abrahamic covenant for the Jews or something? That's not what this passage says at all.
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The Jews did not exist when Abraham was alive. His physical descendants include those outside of Isaac's line. Israel was not Isaac's only child. The Promise is the Seed, not seeds. The covenant is with Abraham's Seed (Gal. 3), and by design with those who are of that Seed.
 
J

Jope

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JonC said:
The Jews did not exist when Abraham was alive. His physical descendants include those outside of Isaac's line. Israel was not Isaac's only child. The Promise is the Seed, not seeds. The covenant is with Abraham's Seed (Gal. 3), and by design with those who are of that Seed.
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Before Christ came, there was a division in the Jewish nation, those who were according to the "election of grace" (Rom 11) and those who were not. Just because a Jew was not elect, does not mean that God ceased to be his God. When Moses came to the Jews, he told them that the God of Abraham was their God (Dt. 29:13; Gen. 17:7). Only two men (Joshua and Caleb) were elect! It is the same in the present dispensation. The jewish unbelievers still have God as their God, even if they aren't the election of grace (Joshua and Caleb).

Chafer's Systematic Theology, Eschatology, Ch. XVII:

The entire eleventh chapter of Romans is devoted to proofs that Israel will never be cast off, but rather be restored to her covenanted blessings. Dr. C. I. Scofield has outlined this chapter in his Reference Bible: “That Israel has not been forever set aside is the theme of this chapter. (1) The salvation of Paul proves that there is still a remnant (v. 1). (2) The doctrine of the remnant proves it (vs. 2-6). (3) The present national unbelief was foreseen (vs. 7-10). (4) Israel’s unbelief is the Gentile opportunity (vs. 11-25). (5) Israel is judicially broken off from the good olive tree, Christ (vs. 17-22). (6) They are to be grafted in again (vs. 23, 24). (7) The promised Deliverer will come out of Zion and the nation will be saved (vs. 25-29). That the Christian now inherits the distinctive Jewish promises is not taught in Scripture. The Christian is of the heavenly seed of Abraham (Gen_15:5-6; Gal_3:29), and partakes of the spiritual blessings of the Abrahamic Covenant (Gen_15:18, note); but Israel as a nation always has its own place, and is yet to have its greatest exaltation as the earthly people of God” (p. 1204).​
 
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TCassidy

TCassidy

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anerlogios said:
I believe Jews today worship and know God in the same way as Abraham, Moses, and David did.
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Who believed in Messiah. Do you think Jews today believe in Jesus as the Messiah (other than a few Messianic Jews)?
 
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