I never said that. You seem very adamant about about this and obviously we're coming to different conclusions about what the Scriptures say. It's cool.
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Do The Jews Worship God of the Bible Still?
- Thread starter Yeshua1
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For your homework tonight, why not do some study and work out how Romans 11:28-29 are reconciled with Romans 2:28-29 and Galatians 3:7 (not to mention Romans 9:6-8)?
I wanted to post that from MM but not necessarily as a quote but as a thought.
God (Yahweh Elohim-of·us Yahweh one) called Abram/Abraham out of Ur of the Chaldeans and he went to Haran then to Canaan to Egypt and back to Canna.
Somewhere approximately on the other side of the world in all likely hood lived an unknown man. To our knowledge (Yahweh Elohim-of·us Yahweh one) ain't called him anywhere. Poor soul.
Gal. 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. AND.
These all died in faith, not having received the promises,
Abraham died not having received the promises. However; Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
The promises were also given to Abraham's seed. Jesus the Christ. However; He also died. The seed of Abraham, Jesus the Christ, born of woman born under the law, died. How is the dead Abraham going to inherit the promises when even his seed, the Christ is dead also? Does Abraham's inheritance depend on whether or not his seed, Christ, remains dead or receives the promise? What promise?
Gal 3:19-21 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one. Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
The seed of Abraham, Christ Jesus inherited the promise and or promises, therefore:
Gal. 3:28,29 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Now the Jews thought they were shoo ins for the kingdom of God whereas the above shows that isn't so.
That is what Luke 16:16-31 is about. You have to be Christ's and if you are Christ's (of faith) then your are Abraham's seed and an heir (Not yet an inheritor) of the kingdom of God. It is saying the exact same thing as, ye must be born again. The same thing as Titus 3:6,7 Which he shed on us abundantly through (received ye the Spirit by the works of the law or the hearing of faith) Jesus Christ our Saviour; That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs (not yet inheritors) according to the hope of eternal life.
I now think I understand why Verse 18 of Luke 16 is there. 18 Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.
V17 is relative to the works of the law and 18 is being born of the flesh, in the context of Psalms 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
Does that poor soul who lived on the other side of the earth from Abraham have a chance of dwelling in the house of the Lord forever?
I wanted to post that from MM but not necessarily as a quote but as a thought.
God (Yahweh Elohim-of·us Yahweh one) called Abram/Abraham out of Ur of the Chaldeans and he went to Haran then to Canaan to Egypt and back to Canna.
Somewhere approximately on the other side of the world in all likely hood lived an unknown man. To our knowledge (Yahweh Elohim-of·us Yahweh one) ain't called him anywhere. Poor soul.
Gal. 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. AND.
These all died in faith, not having received the promises,
Abraham died not having received the promises. However; Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
The promises were also given to Abraham's seed. Jesus the Christ. However; He also died. The seed of Abraham, Jesus the Christ, born of woman born under the law, died. How is the dead Abraham going to inherit the promises when even his seed, the Christ is dead also? Does Abraham's inheritance depend on whether or not his seed, Christ, remains dead or receives the promise? What promise?
Gal 3:19-21 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one. Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
The seed of Abraham, Christ Jesus inherited the promise and or promises, therefore:
Gal. 3:28,29 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Now the Jews thought they were shoo ins for the kingdom of God whereas the above shows that isn't so.
That is what Luke 16:16-31 is about. You have to be Christ's and if you are Christ's (of faith) then your are Abraham's seed and an heir (Not yet an inheritor) of the kingdom of God. It is saying the exact same thing as, ye must be born again. The same thing as Titus 3:6,7 Which he shed on us abundantly through (received ye the Spirit by the works of the law or the hearing of faith) Jesus Christ our Saviour; That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs (not yet inheritors) according to the hope of eternal life.
I now think I understand why Verse 18 of Luke 16 is there. 18 Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.
V17 is relative to the works of the law and 18 is being born of the flesh, in the context of Psalms 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
Does that poor soul who lived on the other side of the earth from Abraham have a chance of dwelling in the house of the Lord forever?
If the bible makes it clear that Jesus is Jehovah, how can you say otherwise? To say that Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all Yahweh sounds like Oneness to me.
Yes it does sound like Oneness...but almost to the point of ignoring Trinitarianism. Yahweh is God; Jesus is the Son of God; Jesus is the Son of Yahweh.
Would agree with you that Jesus is also God, but that Yahweh would be to the Jews the Father Person of the Godhead!
They worship the real God of the OT, but being blined, they refuse to accept Yeshua as messiah, so they are ignorant of the trinity aspect, but do know of the OT Father!
True, but the Jews today who are not really children of Abraham as not saved by yeshua as of yet would still thru OT know the true God!
The jews would know today of Yahweh as being God the Father, so they still try to worship and know Him, they know of Him by the OT scriptures but cannot know Him as saving them until receiving Yeshua His Son!
But not in a saving way, as they know about/of Him, but not Him personally!
From Pastor J.D. Greear who was nearly elected SBC President last year:
http://www.jdgreear.com/my_weblog/2015/03/three-christian-misconceptions-about-muslims.html
"Muslims claim to worship the God of Adam, Abraham, and Moses.....we are both referring to the only, One deity when we say 'God.'...There is no doubt that Muslims believe blasphemous things about God....The question is whether the presence of these heretical beliefs (and what degree of heresy in them) demands that we say, 'You are worshipping a different God.'"
"Clearly, the Apostles did not say that about the first-century Jews who rejected the Trinity....And Jesus did not tell the Samaritan woman in her ethnic, works-righteousness distorted view of God that she was worshipping a different God, either. Instead, he insisted that she was worshipping him incorrectly and seeking salvation wrongly."
http://www.jdgreear.com/my_weblog/2015/03/three-christian-misconceptions-about-muslims.html
"Muslims claim to worship the God of Adam, Abraham, and Moses.....we are both referring to the only, One deity when we say 'God.'...There is no doubt that Muslims believe blasphemous things about God....The question is whether the presence of these heretical beliefs (and what degree of heresy in them) demands that we say, 'You are worshipping a different God.'"
"Clearly, the Apostles did not say that about the first-century Jews who rejected the Trinity....And Jesus did not tell the Samaritan woman in her ethnic, works-righteousness distorted view of God that she was worshipping a different God, either. Instead, he insisted that she was worshipping him incorrectly and seeking salvation wrongly."
BIG difference would be that Allah is NOT the God of either the jews/Christians!
So you do believe the bible is wrong when it says Jesus is Yahweh?
So what do Arabic Christians call God?
Or is it Modualism?
Would assume same as we all do who are saved!
Here's what your Bible School textbook says.
"Since Christ is the Word of God and the Truth of God, he may be received even by those who have not heard of his manifestation in the flesh. A proud and self-righteous morality is inconsistent with saving faith; but a humble and penitent reliance upon God, as a Savior from sin and a guide of conduct, is an implicit faith in Christ; for such reliance casts itself upon God, so far as God has revealed himself,—and the only Revealer of God is Christ. We have, therefore, the hope that even among the heathen there may be some, like Socrates, who, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit working through the truth of nature and conscience, have found the way of life and salvation" (A. H. Strong, Systematic Theology, Part VI, Chapter II, Section II, III, Conversion).
Seems to me like your school taught that heathens could find God without the Christian Religion or Christian Scriptures. How much more then the Jews, who have the OT scriptures?
Hey check this out too!
"The doctrines of atonement and of justification perhaps did not need to be newly revealed to the N. T. writers; illumination as to earlier revelations may have sufficed. But that Christ existed before his incarnation, and that there are personal distinctions in the Godhead, probably required revelation" (ibid., Part III, Ch. III, III Theories of Inspiration).
Augustus Strong Believed that the atonement and justification doctrine of the Old Testament are correct and that the Jews today worship the correct Godhead! The only difference between Jews today and Christians (or messianic Jews) are that they don't know distinctions in the Godhead.
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Would agree with that last part, but would add in that no one is saved apart from knowing Jesus is Lord.... I do not agree with the generic they are seeking God in their own way, so Jesus death saves them, but do think God gets his own the Gospel and saves them out also!
Blood of bulls and goats can't take away sins brother. They worship a God who doesn't exist in the flesh. Their atonement and justification doctrine are correct, but their knowledge of distinction of the Godhead triune is missing. This is what damns them. Their knowledge of the atonement and justification doesn't damn them.
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It seems you are wrong again. The very first class of SysTheo 1 included the warning that Strong was wrong in several areas including his Ethical Monism and his Theistic Evolution and others.
They refuse to accept Jesus as the promised Messiah, refused His atonement for their sins, as jesus stated, if they deny Him, will die in their sins!
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