Do we care more about winning the Duck Dynasty cultural battle...

[Zaac]

How many churches and pastors though come out and say "just keep on fornicating, commiting adultery", as God winks and OKs that lifestyle? NONE that claim to be teaching bible morals, but many claiming to be teaching bible say its OK to be practicing and active gay though!

They don't have to come out and say it. The fornicators and the adulterers are still in the church doing what they do and not being addressed.

My goodness, the churches I could go to and guarantee to you that there are cadres of young men and women routinely fornicating and their parents know it but nothing is ever said of it because it's THEIR child?

Why isn't the immodest dress approached the same way because you've certainly got a slew of young girls and women calling their immodest dress modest.

 

[just-want-peace]

I believe it was Dick Cheney that softened his stance on this topic after it became known that one of his daughters was of this ilk.

Tell me ZAAC, is your staunch support of this lifestyle for a similar reason?

I ask only because you seem to lose any similence (sp) of logic in your defense of them. Sorta fits the old bard's quote: "Methinks thou doth protest TOO much."

 

[Zaac]

I believe it was Dick Cheney that softened his stance on this topic after it became known that one of his daughters was of this ilk.

Tell me ZAAC, is your staunch support of this lifestyle for a similar reason?

Oh gosh.I know lots of gay people. I know lots of fornicators and adulterers . SOme in the church. Some outside the church.

I know that sin is sin and different people use certain things to deal with their brokenness. And they don't need the unrighteous judgment of the church heaped on top of that.

My stance has always been the same: to love folks out of the overflow of Jesus's love for me.

The church has forgotten the love. That's why we're known for what we're against and everybody can tell you and talk about it. But there is rarely anyone talking about how the church loves.

I ask only because you seem to lose any similence (sp) of logic in your defense of them. Sorta fits the old bard's quote: "Methinks thou doth protest TOO much."

I look at Scripture and see that the religious folks thought Jesus had lost all sembalnce of logic too when it came to the answers He gave and the people HE hung out with.

How dare He eat with tax collectors?
How dare He heal someone on the Sabbath?
How dare He let HER come in here?
How dare He tell us who are without sin to cast the first stone?

There is nothing about following Jesus and HIS example that falls into this logic of which you speak.

The very people that the church is running away with its constant onslaught are the ones to whom Jesus flocked and loved upon.

 

[Yeshua1]

Oh gosh.I know lots of gay people. I know lots of fornicators and adulterers . SOme in the church. Some outside the church.

I know that sin is sin and different people use certain things to deal with their brokenness. And they don't need the unrighteous judgment of the church heaped on top of that.

My stance has always been the same: to love folks out of the overflow of Jesus's love for me.

The church has forgotten the love. That's why we're known for what we're against and everybody can tell you and talk about it. But there is rarely anyone talking about how the church loves.



I look at Scripture and see that the religious folks thought Jesus had lost all sembalnce of logic too when it came to the answers He gave and the people HE hung out with.

How dare He eat with tax collectors?
How dare He heal someone on the Sabbath?
How dare He let HER come in here?
How dare He tell us who are without sin to cast the first stone?

There is nothing about following Jesus and HIS example that falls into this logic of which you speak.

The very people that the church is running away with its constant onslaught are the ones to whom Jesus flocked and loved upon.

Do you accept that Homosexual active/practicing lifestyle is unnatural, and that those who live this way without any regards to repenting, nor see any need to change, are being deluded by satan, and that while jesus can and does redeem them, its from the lifestyle itself he calls them to come out from?

Homosexual "movement" has come within the church, and many are being mislead away to see it as something a true Christians can keep on doing even after saved, do you?

Do you seem this practive and behavior as an abomination untothe Lord or not?

 

[Aaron]

The word culture comes from the Latin root colere (to inhabit, to cultivate, or to honor).

What does that tell us about the culture, and what is our objective when we engage it?

 

[Yeshua1]

Oh gosh.I know lots of gay people. I know lots of fornicators and adulterers . SOme in the church. Some outside the church.

I know that sin is sin and different people use certain things to deal with their brokenness. And they don't need the unrighteous judgment of the church heaped on top of that.

My stance has always been the same: to love folks out of the overflow of Jesus's love for me.

The church has forgotten the love. That's why we're known for what we're against and everybody can tell you and talk about it. But there is rarely anyone talking about how the church loves.



I look at Scripture and see that the religious folks thought Jesus had lost all sembalnce of logic too when it came to the answers He gave and the people HE hung out with.

How dare He eat with tax collectors?
How dare He heal someone on the Sabbath?
How dare He let HER come in here?
How dare He tell us who are without sin to cast the first stone?

There is nothing about following Jesus and HIS example that falls into this logic of which you speak.

The very people that the church is running away with its constant onslaught are the ones to whom Jesus flocked and loved upon.

Do you see there is a BIG difference between those who once were into gay practices/lifestyles, but who when saved by grace of God, chose to come out of that way of life, from thsoe who profess 'we are saved, jesus accepts me', and yet deny ANY efforts to have them come out from gay lifestyle?

many in church claim to have Christ, yet still keep living that ungodly way with remorse/conviction, such as in gay Metropolitian Church, and HOW can that be real christianity?

 

[Zaac]

Do you accept that Homosexual active/practicing lifestyle is unnatural, and that those who live this way without any regards to repenting, nor see any need to change, are being deluded by satan, and that while jesus can and does redeem them, its from the lifestyle itself he calls them to come out from?

There appears to be a lot of what you want in that question.

I accept that all sin is unnatural as GOD created man without sin.

Those living in unrepentant sin, ANY unrepentant sin, are being called out of that sin by Jesus. The way yall talk about things on here and often in the church, if yall can just convince the homosexual that you're right about that sin, then all is well. Never mind that their lives are filled with OTHER sin. One gets the impression that the only sin in their lives that the church is worried about is the homosexual sin.

Homosexual "movement" has come within the church, and many are being mislead away to see it as something a true Christians can keep on doing even after saved, do you?

What about the movement for not loving people as ourselves? What about the movement of being greedy?

Sin is not new to the church and homosexual sin certainly isn't new. As the same things are going on n the church that are going in outside the church, theres a whole lot of stuff folks think they can keep doing after getting saved.

There's far more heterosexual fornication.
There's far more immodest dress. And on and on and on.

Do you seem this practive and behavior as an abomination untothe Lord or not?

If God says its an abomination it's an abomination. HE says other things are an abomination:

There are six things that the Lord hates, seven that are an abomination to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that make haste to run to evil, a false witness who breathes out lies, and one who sows discord among brothers

. Pro. 6:16-19

The church never focuses on these as abominations. Probably cause it wouldn't be looked upon favorably by those in the church to see that God considers our sin just as vile and wicked as any other sin.

 

[Zaac]

Do you see there is a BIG difference between those who once were into gay practices/lifestyles, but who when saved by grace of God, chose to come out of that way of life, from thsoe who profess 'we are saved, jesus accepts me', and yet deny ANY efforts to have them come out from gay lifestyle?

many in church claim to have Christ, yet still keep living that ungodly way with remorse/conviction, such as in gay Metropolitian Church, and HOW can that be real christianity?

I see it the same way as I see those who have been saved and feel like they can still be unloving, who can still unrighteously judge, who can still a lot of the sinful stuff that folks in the church still do.

 

[nodak]

Zaac, are you saying you expect sinless perfection of those in the church?

It seems totally illogical to make the argument, as it seems to me you are, that until church people quit doing all other sins gays have a free pass to continue in sin.

Really? So until there are no gossips or gluttons in the church, would you also give pedophiles a free pass?

Honestly, I cannot say I've ever seen anybody who fornicates asking the church to bless their continuing to do so. Openly, pushily, very vocally, demanding that right. I do see that with homosexuality.

Are there other sinners in the church? Absolutely. Are gays guilty of other sins also? Absolutely.

But I daresay the conservative Christians didn't go looking for this war. It was brought right into the church by an organized movement.

And they cry foul when we respond.

Personally, I don't think the issue is win the duck dynasty cultural battle OR win the lost for Christ. But then I don't believe people get saved unless they know they are sinners. And unless you speak the truth about all sin, including homosexual behavior, you will miss telling someone they are a sinner.

What I think the kerfuffle is about is this: Old Phil called sin sin. People DON'T like hearing that ANY sin is as bad as bestiality and terrorism and adultery. But the simple truth is, they all are. Perhaps too many folks are worried that if we name the sin of the gays next thing you know we'll be talking about theirs.

All I can say is I will be literally eternal grateful someone named my sin as sin, thus earning me a slot in hell, and only then gave me the gospel.

Cause if they had just tried to love me into the kingdom I'd still be lost.

 

[Yeshua1]

I see it the same way as I see those who have been saved and feel like they can still be unloving, who can still unrighteously judge, who can still a lot of the sinful stuff that folks in the church still do.

again, we both agree that the Bible state fornication and adultery are sins, but would you agree with me that in this curreent culture and society, that even in churches many refuse to call homosexuality a sin?

 

[righteousdude2]

Yes He Does....

I believe it was Dick Cheney that softened his stance on this topic after it became known that one of his daughters was of this ilk.

Tell me ZAAC, is your staunch support of this lifestyle for a similar reason?

I ask only because you seem to lose any similence (sp) of logic in your defense of them. Sorta fits the old bard's quote: "Methinks thou doth protest TOO much."

His continued perseverance and protests have a curious ring to it?

1) He is probably not a Baptist....
2) He feels a need to speak out for the LGgBT/GLAAD folks...
3) He loves to be in the middle of controversy...
4) He is an instigator, stirring for a fight....
5) He is a cleaver TROLL....
6) He loves to lord his view and opinions over us, when he views as inferior and hypocritical....
7) He honestly believes he is closer to God that any of us back wood hicks on the board....
8) He is bored to death, and while he lacks true knowledge on the subject, he needs the fellowship....
9) He is confused and wants others to be confused too...
10) He has lost his grip on reality....
11) He is really as good as he wants us to believe he is...SCARY!
12) He is merely a figment of all our imaginations....
13) He has a cause, and that cause is to set the church straight, on straight issues?
14) He was a social outcast as a child and teen, and needs this board to feel superior....

 

[Aaron]

What does that tell us about the culture, and what is our objective when we engage it?

It means that the Great Commission is a command to fight a culture battle.

Now the nonsensical nature of the opening premise of this thread is exposed.

 

[Tom Butler]

We don't have to make a choice between supporting Christian values espoused by Phil Robertson and evangelizing the lost and witnessing where the opportunity arises. We can do both.

Years ago in downtown Paducah an adult movie house opened. One African-American church organized pickets in front of the skin-flick theater. Someone accosted the pastor one evening and complained. "Preacher, with all the ills of our society, don't you think there are more important things to do than spend time down here?"

The preacher responded, "Son, I don't preach on every sin every Sunday. But I get to all of them sooner or later. This is the one I'm gettin' to right now."