Do we have any Evangelical Arminians Here on site now then?

[Paleouss]

Greetings my brother, Silverhair. Thank you for your edification.

From this it seems your view holds that God picked out a select group to be saved and only those can be saved and all others are condemned from the start. Am I wrong in this understanding of your view?

I do not hold to any form of Supralapsariansim. That being a decree by God that is the logical order of selecting the children of wrath prior to a fall. I deny the Calvinist's logical deduction that God predestines some for hell (although God surely knew it and allowed it and intended to use it toward His good).

I do hold to particular election. I understand that you hold to corporate election (I have no problems with this view...the result ends up being the same for me).

The confusion is that I just don't accept that God's atemporal foreknowledge, planning, and will is incompatible with man's will and temporal choice of faith (or not). I think it's like comparing apples to oranges. We as temporal beings tend to think of God temporally when He is atemporal. We confound logical atemporal order and temporal order.

So when I get to the dilemma of particular election and the concept of freedom of the will to have faith or not, submit or not...I don't fell I need to take a side. I'm not concerned with the difficulty of reconciling the two. Well...I am but I accept it because I think the Bible teaches both.

From what I see in scripture God desires all to be saved, 1 Timothy 2:4, and Christ came so that all could be saved, John 3: 17. Man has the ability to trust in or to reject God and he will be held responsible for the choices he makes, John 3:18.

I agree with all this and think the Bible teaches it.

Christ made provision for all to be able to be saved when He covered all sin at the cross, 1 John 2:2. Those that turn to God in faith will be saved, Romans 10:13. Those that have believed are then one of the elect as they are then in the "Elect One" Christ Jesus, Ephesians 1:13, through the sealing of the Holy Spirit.

As we are told it is by the grace of God that we are saved through faith, we do not deserve it and we can not earn it via good works, Ephesians 2:8-9. Those that turn to God in faith will be saved, Romans 10:13.

I agree with all of these under Christ's Cosmic Triumph on the cross. Christ is the savior of all men through the conquering of that which held mankind in bondage. Christ did something tangible for all men through His Cosmic Triumph. Because of this Cosmic Triumph those that turn to God in faith will be saved. Taken out from under the law and put under grace.

But the Son of God didn't come to be the Savior of all men from the law. Otherwise we have universalism. Those that would be taken out from under the law was known, planned, and willed to be temporal. Some want to contend that those that do not come out from under the law have 'potential'...I have no problem with this. Potential seems to attempt to counter Supralapsarianism. A position I have no problems in attempting to counter.


Peace to you brother

 

[Silverhair]

But the Son of God didn't come to be the Savior of all men from the law. Otherwise we have universalism. Those that would be taken out from under the law was known, planned, and willed to be temporal.

I am curious how you came to this conclusion as we see numerous passages that point to Christ coming to be the savior of all.

1Ti_4:10 Savior of all men, especially of believers

Heb_2:9 should taste death for every man

1Jn_2:1-2 propitiation for the whole world

Rom_5:6 Christ died for the ungodly

Do these passages not in include all of humanity?

But we also see faith as the condition of salvation so salvation is not unconditional nor particular as you asserted in post #17

Rom_3:28 justified by faith...apart from works

Rom_5:1 having been justified by faith
Rom_5:2 introduction by faith into this grace

Eph_2:8 by grace...saved through faith

Further we see that we are judged by our words.

Mat 12:37 "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned."

Your confession of faith in or rejection of God will be the basis of your salvation or condemnation.

Rom 10:10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

 

[Tea]

If God does the choosing as you suggest and He desires that all come to repentance then why do not all come to repentance? Your theology say God determines all things so what is the problem?

If God desires all to come to repentance and not all come to repentance, then He must be talking about all His elect. Otherwise, He doesn’t get what He desires, or He could save everybody and then be a universalist.

But we see that calvinist has it backwards when they say you are saved so you will believe.
"A man is not saved because he believes in Christ, he believes in Christ because he is saved" Calvinist Loraine Boettner Calvinist's have a person saved prior to them believing in Christ Jesus.

I wouldn’t say that a man believes in Christ because He is saved. A man believes in Christ because God regenerates them, they are now able to believe in Christ and are saved.

God is sovereign even what man has a God given free will.

God is sovereign and man’s will is only free to do evil.

Deliberate sin is sin we know we should not do but do it anyway.

Any act of sin is deliberate and the result of our flesh. If I stub my toe and start cursing as a reaction to the pain, it’s very difficult to stop and try to rationalize it when it all happens so fast. So what, is God going to give me a pass because I had a moment of weakness?

God has commanded us to trust in Him and that is something that we can do and that is why we are held responsible for not doing so.

I agree that He commands us to trust in Him and He will hold those responsible for not doing so. He still has to regenerate a person’s hearts before they even want to obey His commands.