Do We Have Free-Will?

[Miss E]

2 truths and I’m done speaking to the misguided Calvinists:

Jesus came to save ALL SINNERS

Only a few CHOOSE TO ACCEPT JESUS’ SACRIFICE

Your predestination is rubbish, your belief sinners don’t have freedom to choose to follow God is ridiculous and makes God out to be a dictator, and his ‘chosen people’ are TECHNICALLY the Jewish people but by Gods Grace He too has given us gentiles the freedom to choose Him or perish alone in our selfishness

 

[AustinC]

2 truths and I’m done speaking to the misguided Calvinists:

Jesus came to save ALL SINNERS

Only a few CHOOSE TO ACCEPT JESUS’ SACRIFICE

Your predestination is rubbish, your belief sinners don’t have freedom to choose to follow God is ridiculous and makes God out to be a dictator, and his ‘chosen people’ are TECHNICALLY the Jewish people but by Gods Grace He too has given us gentiles the freedom to choose Him or perish alone in our selfishness

Did Jesus save all sinners, since that is what he came to do?
If he didn't save all sinners then there are two options as to why.
First, he came only to save those the Father has given him, just as he said in John 10.
Second, sinners will power to reject Jesus thwarted Jesus attempt to save the world and Jesus just wasn't strong enough to do what he set out to do.

MissE, there is your option. Since you have free will, pick your option.

 

[just-want-peace]

Wesley Briggman sez: "- - We have a self-will, but it is not without judgement. If it were indeed free, there would be no consequence."

Humbly beg to differ here!
Don't know the origin, but it is a fact - "You are free to choose; BUT, you are NOT free to choose the consequences of your choice."

With this being said, I am outta here, as this thread (for the most part) refuses to discuss the OP point of whether a person can refuse salvation BY HIS OWN CHOICE (NOT whether or not he can save himself), but instead is chasing rabbits all over the keyboard!!

 

[Iconoclast]

"Miss E,

Free Will enables us to make Choices. How can you take free will out of the equation?

I answered this earlier but maybe it did not post...We have self will and everyone makes choices. We cannot escape our natures however which are bound by sin...see Jn 8.

Do you believe God forces His children to love him?

110 The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

2 The Lord shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies.

3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.

4 The Lord hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.



9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.

10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.

 

[Iconoclast]

"Miss E,

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

@Iconoclast

That scripture is talking about those who have made the decision to REJECT GOD.

They had to make a choice in order for God to 'give them up'. I believe God will stop trying to persuade men to Love Him when it is apparent they are rejecting the Holy Spirit.

Men do not have a choice as they are haters and rebels against the true God, they are conceived dead in sin.

 

[Iconoclast]

"Miss E,

2 truths and I’m done speaking to the misguided Calvinists

:

More like two errors, then you are going to turn away from light and go back to the darkness you have been taught.

Jesus came to save ALL SINNERS

Jesus saved each and every sinner He came to save.
He saved ALL The Father gave to Him,,,,,no more, no less.Jn6:37-44

Only a few CHOOSE TO ACCEPT JESUS’ SACRIFICE

Not found in the bible, just on your post.

Your predestination is rubbish,

You might be taught to despise biblical teaching in that man centered free will gathering, but it is believed by every true Christian.

[QUOTE]your belief sinners don’t have freedom to choose to follow God is ridiculous[/QUOTE]

Jesus and the Apostles taught differently

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.


[QUOTE]and makes God out to be a dictator,[/QUOTE]

God is a merciful Sovereign, who "free will" people rebel against.

You can make up your own false gospel and run away, but it is not going to make your posted error turn into truth.

 

[timtofly]

timtofly,
There are many verses;
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
God determines all things with infinite wisdom and controls every molecule in the universe.
Man is not sovereign God is.

Your verses are proof that all can know God. That all can reject God, and then all can become reprobate. Each step after knowing is a choice. Only after being reprobate is one fully a slave to a sinful nature.

Of course God is sovereign. In God's total control, He allowed humans free will. He sealed them all, with the Holy Spirit from conception because God is Sovereign. And reformed theology cannot change God’s sovereign plan that allows all humans to have free will. It does not matter what they believe and how they indoctrinate others. Although they really break their own rules even trying to get people to think the same way they do. Really, if people do not have free will, they cannot change much of anything. Perhaps a flat tire? Of course that is nonsense. The whole reformed theology is nonsense.

 

[Iconoclast]

Your verses are proof that all can know God. That all can reject God, and then all can become reprobate. Each step after knowing is a choice. Only after being reprobate is one fully a slave to a sinful nature.

Of course God is sovereign. In God's total control, He allowed humans free will. He sealed them all, with the Holy Spirit from conception because God is Sovereign. And reformed theology cannot change God’s sovereign plan that allows all humans to have free will. It does not matter what they believe and how they indoctrinate others. Although they really break their own rules even trying to get people to think the same way they do. Really, if people do not have free will, they cannot change much of anything. Perhaps a flat tire? Of course that is nonsense. The whole reformed theology is nonsense.

To someone who has no understanding it would have to seem that way.
Your lack of understanding does not change the teaching of scripture.
All men do not have the Spirit.

 

[percho]

It's a simple question with a VERY simple answer.

What do you think about free will? Do we have it? Or does God essentially control our minds and force us to love or hate Him?

I'm curious, we've been discussing this in another forum, but I wanted to see what the rest of the forum had to say on the subject.

For me, I believe we do. Other-wise. How in the WORLD would we be able to TRULY LOVE GOD. If God MADE us love him, decided for us that we will be saved, how is that truly Love?

I only have one sctipure and that is John 3:16:

"For God so love the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have ever-lasting life."

WHOEVER BELIEVES. That implies a conscious decision must be made. Does it not?

Also, I do agree with the belief that God KNOWS who will make the choice to believe in Jesus and be saved and who will not. But just because He KNOWS THAT, doesn't mean He MAKES US MAKE THE CHOICE TO FOLLOW HIM.

Please enlighten me with your views. I need to know I'm not alone on this (to me) elementary scriptural truth.

Consider: In reality there are two men. 1 Cor 15:22,45 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.- The first man Adam and the last Adam. Heb 2:6 But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man (singular), that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man (singular), that thou visitest him?

Now before the foundation of the world the last Adam was foreordained to come into the world and, DIE.

If the first man Adam of his own free will been obedient to the law given him would there have been any reason for the last Adam?

Was the first man Adam, the living soul, going to sin and bring death to man, for the purpose of the last Adam, or not?

Where was Satan the devil before the first man Adam was created? Was the spiritual being called Satan the devil, the adversary of God before the first man Adam was created? Why was the first man Adam made a little lower than the angels?

I do not believe the first man Adan had free will. I believe he was a means to an end.

The destruction of the devil and his works.

 

[timtofly]

To someone who has no understanding it would have to seem that way.
Your lack of understanding does not change the teaching of scripture.
All men do not have the Spirit.

Obviously! Being sealed by the Holy Spirit is not the same as exercising full authority in the Holy Spirit.

I am not the one with a false interpretation.

It is not about mankind having the Holy Spirit. It is about the Holy Spirit having all mankind. Is there a difference? Yes, because that is how Scripture portrays it. Not until the end of the harvest can men actually stand before God and state they do not want to be of God, thus God declares, "I never knew you." Reformed theology has it backwards. Because their interpretation states that God never knew them even before the world was created. But that is unbiblical. God is all knowing and can only not know, at the very end of this reality. You all want God to not know, even before reality even started.

 

[timtofly]

Consider: In reality there are two men. 1 Cor 15:22,45 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.- The first man Adam and the last Adam. Heb 2:6 But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man (singular), that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man (singular), that thou visitest him?

Now before the foundation of the world the last Adam was foreordained to come into the world and, DIE.

If the first man Adam of his own free will been obedient to the law given him would there have been any reason for the last Adam?

Was the first man Adam, the living soul, going to sin and bring death to man, for the purpose of the last Adam, or not?

Where was Satan the devil before the first man Adam was created? Was the spiritual being called Satan the devil, the adversary of God before the first man Adam was created? Why was the first man Adam made a little lower than the angels?

I do not believe the first man Adan had free will. I believe he was a means to an end.

The destruction of the devil and his works.

Free will is not the key to destroying the Adversary known as Satan. Satan's deception and the false lie that free will does not exist is the destruction of mankind. Free will did not usher in or thwart God’s plan. Free will is God’s Plan.

God knew free will would already work just fine. BTW, Adam was the second Adam. Jesus Christ the Lamb was the first Adam. It was in the image of God, Christ, and the Holy Spirit, Adam was made.

Free will is the means to an end, yet some insist it does not exist. You could say all of creation is the means to an end. God is the beginning and the end, and everything in between is the means to get God’s perfect Will done.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Well I am DEFINITELY not Calvinistic. When I think of the word Baptist, I think of 'once saved always saved' and the preacher inviting us to choose to follow Jesus.

I'm just wanting to open this up to more denominational people to discuss. I'm getting tired of ya'll Calvinists. lol No offence.

Oh I should have never followed Christ if some preacher invited me,,, but now the HS?

 

[Miss E]

HS?

Oh I should have never followed Christ if some preacher invited me,,, but now the HS?

HS?
I’m giving a situation that emphasizes a choice we make when we decide to trust Jesus

 

[Miss E]

Another thought to chew on, when you say God chose you you’re inviting in the sin of pride, why wouldn’t that make a man or woman not sit and think ‘hey I was chosen by God and you weren’t ! That makes me special’ It puts you higher than another person when the truth is ALL MANKIND have a chance to receive Jesus, they make that choice.

 

[Miss E]

Furhrermore, why would we need to tell anyone the Gospel and have missionaries if God already had His Chosen people picked out? They would already be saved and they could have never heard the Gospel. Isn’t that what you are implying?

and to have the mindset of predestination causes you to look at others with non care since you will just shrug your shoulders and say hey/she was either chosen by God to be saved or not, not going to bother wasting my time ministering to them

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

HS?

HS?
I’m giving a situation that emphasizes a choice we make when we decide to trust Jesus

How do you decide to trust Jesus, especially when your commitment is to being a sinner and your enjoyment is in sin? No I had this conversation with my brother for hours one day, he continued to argue the case and he was a Baptist pastor at the time...just believe he kept saying, just believe. I never did, not his easily believe system. Not until I encountered the Holy Spirit who convicted me... then I was saved.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Furhrermore, why would we need to tell anyone the Gospel and have missionaries if God already had His Chosen people picked out? They would already be saved and they could have never heard the Gospel. Isn’t that what you are implying?

and to have the mindset of predestination causes you to look at others with non care since you will just shrug your shoulders and say hey/she was either chosen by God to be saved or not, not going to bother wasting my time ministering to them

To tell ya the truth, you alone can’t minister to them anyway... not without the presence of the Holy Spirit. You would just ramble on making no sence whatsoever to your target audience. Heck, they are just sinners and they are embroiled in it... possibly even enjoying it.

 

[Reformed1689]

It's a simple question with a VERY simple answer.

What do you think about free will? Do we have it? Or does God essentially control our minds and force us to love or hate Him?

I'm curious, we've been discussing this in another forum, but I wanted to see what the rest of the forum had to say on the subject.

For me, I believe we do. Other-wise. How in the WORLD would we be able to TRULY LOVE GOD. If God MADE us love him, decided for us that we will be saved, how is that truly Love?

I only have one sctipure and that is John 3:16:

"For God so love the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have ever-lasting life."

WHOEVER BELIEVES. That implies a conscious decision must be made. Does it not?

Also, I do agree with the belief that God KNOWS who will make the choice to believe in Jesus and be saved and who will not. But just because He KNOWS THAT, doesn't mean He MAKES US MAKE THE CHOICE TO FOLLOW HIM.

Please enlighten me with your views. I need to know I'm not alone on this (to me) elementary scriptural truth.

It's not a simple answer. It depends on what you mean by free-will.

 

[canadyjd]

.....
I wasn't ignoring you, I simply forgot you had asked these questions as they were earlier in this thread. My apologies.

God knows everything, so to answer your question. YES. But we still choose to Accept or Not

It doesn't matter how much 'nudging' God does for us if a sinner decides to go his own way and not choose God, HE CAN......

Thank you for answering my question. I know some on these threads tend to post very long explanations so it’s easy to miss something.

I really would like to have a respectful conversation with you about this issue. Let’s do it.

You stated that you agree that God knows everything, even how much influence it takes to “nudge” someone to accept Christ.

However, you said it doesn’t matter how much influence God uses, a person can always reject the influence of God Holy Spirit.

To me, there are only two explanations for that. First, God doesn’t have the ability to exert enough influence to bring someone to Christ, or second, God choses not to exert enough influence to bring someone to Christ.

I believe God is all powerful. If He choses to bring someone to Christ, He is able.

So, if people are always able to resist Gods influence, then He must limit His influence, do you agree?

peace to you

 

[Yeshua1]

Was that a joke? Or are you meaning they would agree with me on free will?

Just saying that if you think that we Baptist Calvinists are messed up on this, our Presbyterian brethren are much more sticklers on this issue!