Do you believe in disciplining children

[Roguelet]

The bible says " if you spare the ROD you spoil the child "

I am amazed at a few facts

1)How many Christians think capital punishment is wrong. ( Not for children just in general )

2)How many Christians do NOT discipline their children.

3)How many have have fallen for the lie of the Government and liberal media.

4)How many think Dr. Phill and the Nanny show is the answer to all our problems with kids today.

Seems to me we have become a wishy washy society worried about what others ( including our children ) think than what God thinks.

[ October 17, 2005, 11:42 PM: Message edited by: Roguelet ]

 

[gb93433]

1) If someone could assure me our penal system was perfect I would go witgh capital punishment. But we also know that a death penalty case costs more than a life in prison case.

2) I believe many do not discipline their children because the majority are not self disciplined. Just look at how many adults are sharing their faith. Then we wonder why kids when they become adults leave the church.

3) Most cannot think for themsleves so they fall for whatever they hear. The majority of preachers study little so they fall for SYI and what they have heard preached over the years--right or wrong.

 

[tinytim]

First of all the Bible doesn't say that.

Second are you talking about corporal punishment(paddling) or capital punishment (death penalty)

BTW, I believe in corporal punishment.

 

[Scarlett O.]

Proverbs 13:24 - "He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes."

Yes, Roguelet, I believe in disciplining children and doling out punishments when warranted.

But I also believe that the thrust of Proverbs 13:24 is NOT about spanking, but on love.

I interpret that verse to mean that refusing to discipline or punish children when necessary is proof that you do not love them the way that you should.

And, conversely, that a parent or guardian who loves a child the way that God intended them to will correct them when the need arises.

I do believe in light spanking for serious offenses, such as:

~calling others bad names
~willfull and continual disobedience
~extreme and intentional disrepect
~refusal to follow life-saving rules (such as "don't play in the street" or "don't touch the hot stove")

I also believe that discipline should come first. That is, a child should know and understand the boundaries. Repeat the rules often, practice any procedures, and explain why these rules are important to their safety and benefit.

That's discipline.

Draw the boundaries and making sure the child stays within those boundaries. And make sure that you expand those boundaries as the child matures in a common sense and loving manner.

Now when the boundaries are broken, then comes punishment.

And that can take the role of:

~time out
~light spanking
~loss of a privilege
~temporarily giving up a toy
~no tv
~no phone
~no McDonald's....etc.

I think that "Nanny" has some good ideas that I've seen work. You have to remember that she is dealing with out of control children with parents who are helpless.

Some of those children are already hitting their parents square in the face. Spanking in this situation would do absolutely no good at all.

Light spanking for serious offenses is acceptable.

Spanking children for every single minor and major infraction of every single day is mindless, abusive, and doesn't produce a disciplined child.

And there are parents all over the United States who use Proverbs 13:24 and the misquoting of it and the misinterpretation of it to spank their children every single day.

If you are spanking your child every day, then spanking is obviously not working and you are using it inappropriately.

Peace-
Scarlett O.
<><

 

[Bunyon]

"I do believe in light spanking for serious offenses"----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Scarlett O, you do believe its gotta hurt don't you?

 

[MC1171611]

The Bible teaches both! God told Noah:

Gen 9:5 And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man.

Capital punishment for murder, no matter why, is reason for death. Now, killing in self-defense is different. But God clearly teaches that murderers are to be executed.

Now, on corporal punishment. I am 17 years of age. I have been disciplined my entire childhood. I see people my age that have no work ethic, no respect, no character, and I know that it is because they were not trained properly. The Bible teaches that if you do not spank your child, that you HATE them. Without proper discipline, your child will grow up to be a rebellious, spoiled brat that thinks the world owes him something. I have learned this from seeing other children's actions, and I understand that my parents truly loved me: they proved this by disciplining me when I needed it.

 

[Roguelet]

Thanks Scarlet I was looking the verses up to show the bible in a way does say that

 

[tinytim]

Good post Scarlett.
Also, Spanking for everything will lose it's effectiveness.
It should be for the most severe, and Never, NEVER done in anger.

Take a breather before you do.
Then make sure the child knows what rule they have broken.
God always lets us know why he is chastising us, and we should make it clear to our children also.

Set up rules and consequences that way you teach your child fairness.

Negative discipline should be balanced with positive also.

 

[Scarlett O.]

Yes, it should "sting" a little. A LITTLE. Enough for them to remember it and not want it again.

And only two or three stinging "swats" with your hand on the bottom or on the back of the thighs.

And when it is over, tell them WHY they received a swat and that they WILL receive another one or two if the behavior is repeated.

Go over the rule(s) again and have the child explain the rule and consequences to you.

Then tell him you love him and find something meaningful to do together.

Never spank them and then push them away and say, "Go to you room and think about the spanking you just got!!"

And...if you are giving your child several "licks" with a belt or shoe or hairbrush, that too much.

 

[MC1171611]

What about "rod"? "Chasteneth him betimes"? "If thou beatest him with the rod he shall not die"? I am all for fairness, but when a child knows what or what not to do, and he doesn't or does do it willingly, then it is time for some major correction. Not punishment: discipline, which is loving correction with a rod. I would say to NEVER use your hand, as this is percieved as striking, and the Bible says to use a rod. The rod can also be used as a deterrent: Michael and Debbie Pearl have many stories on child rearing (http://www.nogreaterjoy.org/). I would advise that you check out their site.

 

[Roguelet]

There are about 6 verses dealing with the use of the rod. I guess when God said how important it was to discipline children and to use a rod he didn't mean what he said and he doesn't know what he is talking about.

The problem most parents have is they are not using the proper instrument when they spank and they are not consistant.

The bible uses the rod ( a long thin tool which causes a sting ) for 2 reasons one it isn't personal like your hand and you only need a few strokes unlike a wooden spoon or paddle, which never work since there is NO STING or PAIN. The ROD is very effective or a switch of some sort. I use to use a tree steam, long and thin when they were real little. as they get older you find they don't need spankings as much if they have learned first time obedience. But then you can deal with taking away privledges.

You cannot reason with children at a very young age and you shouldn't have to. I believe and i would hope most agree that any willful disobedence deserves a spanking. When I asked my kids NOT to do something and they didn't do it that is willful disobedience, or if I asked them to DO something and they didn't that too is willful disobedience. those were the only times that deserve a spanking.

another problem parents have is they make threats without following through, they spank out of anger, they are not consistant. They do not show love after discipline. Most parents never set boundries and follow through if they do. The child becomes the authority in the home and not the parents.

[ October 18, 2005, 12:34 AM: Message edited by: Roguelet ]

 

[Bunyon]

"Yes, it should "sting" a little. A LITTLE. Enough for them to remember it and not want it again.

And only two or three stinging "swats" with your hand on the bottom or on the back of the thighs"

Ok, sounds resonable. I just asked because "light" to me would mean no pain. But I have often heard Christian conselors say that you should never use you hand. They say the hand is what you stroke their cheek with and ruffle their hear with. It should not be an instrument of punishment. So that they wont see it as such.

 

[Roguelet]

MC1171611

how funny it took me so long to write that i didn't read what you or most wrote but i see we agree. interesting glad to know someone does.

 

[Roguelet]

MC1171611

Now, on corporal punishment. I am 17 years of age. I have been disciplined my entire childhood. I see people my age that have no work ethic, no respect, no character, and I know that it is because they were not trained properly. The Bible teaches that if you do not spank your child, that you HATE them. Without proper discipline, your child will grow up to be a rebellious, spoiled brat that thinks the world owes him something. I have learned this from seeing other children's actions, and I understand that my parents truly loved me: they proved this by disciplining me when I needed it.

I am so glad you see the benifits of your training so do my children, they are the better because of it and they too have great work eithics.
AMEN

 

[Roguelet]

I find it hard to believe that spanking at a young age is infrequent like tinytim suggest. If you have set up rules and they know what they are and you do nothing about it you are teaching them it is ok to break the rules. The only time I see where a parent doesn't have to discipline often is when they do not make ANY rules.

Boy have I seen a lot of those kinds of parents. NO RULES no punishment.

 

[Roguelet]

Bunyon

But I have often heard Christian conselors say that you should never use you hand. They say the hand is what you stroke their cheek with and ruffle their hear with. It should not be an instrument of punishment. So that they wont see it as such.

AMEN !

 

[SAMPLEWOW]

Iam sure that my dad spanking me is exactly what God had in mind and it never lost it's effectiveness. I today am thankful my dad spanked me.

I believe that today most parents have gotten lazy when it comes to disciplining their children and it has become easy to do nothing .

Time out is not effective on most children.

 

[Roguelet]

Yep samplewow your right.

I always wondered what parents did with children who wouldn't sit in time out ? You have to use some kind of forse so you might as well just spank them.

 

[jshurley04]

Originally posted by SAMPLEWOW:
Time out is not effective on most children.

Time out works in conjunction with spanking. If the children know that and fear (not the kind that means they are unsafe, but the kind that says I don't want to go there) what comes as they escalate their behavior then it works well. I have 4 kids and have been through the state taking away my kids because of spanking. Long story short, the public school wanted my son out of their school and over reacted and the state pointed somethings out that I have never thought of before. Case was not proven and we are back together and out of the state of Missouri.

Scripture references discipline and not beating our children or even to spank them. We as parents are to endeavor to make spanking the last resort. We need to find things that help them see and realize the wrongness of their actions and provide appropriate consequences. For my son, if I tell him that he can't play with his favorite toys, he does not care, that is not a big thing to him. However, if I make him do nose time (prone on the floor nose down and quiet and still for a set amount of time) then that gets his attention almost as good as a spanking. There are some things that he knows will result in an automatic spanking, such as: Lieing, cheating, open rebellion (fit), hitting, and multiple offenses in the same day or time. We limit the swats to a total of 5 and only use a belt if he is in repeat mode or throwing fits repeatedly. I have a responsibility to my son to be firm but gentle at the same time.

 

[Roguelet]

There are some things that he knows will result in an automatic spanking, such as: Lieing, cheating,

I would never spank for these offenses including stealing. These are areas of a childs life that are teachable moments. All children will do these things at some point in their growing up. So rather than punish them for something that God can use as a teachable moment use it as such.

Whenever my kids did these offenses I would take them to the Bible and look up all the verses that delt with each offense. I would teach them what was right and what was wrong and WHY.

If it happened repeatedly than they may need a spanking. I had one child who had a problem around 7 of stealing while at friends houses I made him take back each toy he took and apologize. after a couple of times of that he
was too embarrased to do it again. Never had a problem again.

Spanking should always be for deliberate disobedience. Everything is a teachable moment.

Belts are also a personal object like the hand and not very effective and can actually cause more harm and marks than a sting of the Rod or switch.