Do you believe in God? Then you have a moral duty to fight climate change, writes Jim Antal

[atpollard]

I absolutely agree that man does not live by bread alone. But the church has shown itself to be both unwilling and unable to provide the tremendous amount of help the poor in America need today. In light of this fact to say the church must do it is tantamount to saying you do not want for them to be helped.

We need to define 'help'.

I have a neighbor who likes to set out food for stray cats. If I asked her, I have no doubt that she is 'helping' those stray cats. The reality is that her 'helping' means we have about thirty feral cats in our small neighborhood with a steady stream of kittens. I drive past several dead cats on the road every week. So the question becomes, is more food for feral cats really 'helping' the problem?

Of course, we are talking about human beings, not cats. Did you know that a 14 year old girl can become pregnant? I had no idea that women, well little girls, were fertile that young until I met the mother of a two-year-old placed into our foster care. She was pregnant at 14. The mother was also in foster care since she was a minor and her mother couldn't take care of her or her siblings (according to the state). So here is a lesson on how this whole game works. The baby cannot be adopted by anyone until the parent is given a chance to work on a case plan and demonstrates to a court that either they have completed their case plan, or they are incapable of completing their case plan. In the meantime, the children exist in a legal limbo under the care of the state ... which really means someone willing to work for $0.25 per hour for 168 hours per week and feed, shelter and clothe that child at their expense. [That's $42 per week per child].

So just out of curiosity, we inquired about the Grandmother and how she was coming with her plan to get her children back. The court ordered her to get a job and show that she had a place to live as the 'plan' to get her children back. After two years, she had decided to move back to Atlanta and leave her children in Foster care in Florida. The 'plan' of the 14 year old mother (now almost 17 years old) required her to attend school and take care of her baby on visitations in order to get into a program that keeps mothers and babies together. She found both school and taking care of a baby not her thing, so HER plan is to age out of the system and just go and make another ... because "the more babies you got, the more money the government gives you". Her baby has spent two years away from a parent that doesn't care and has been kept from any adoptive family that might want to raise her.

Are you REALLY SURE that the government 'solution' is helping the problem? I have three generations of real people that suggest otherwise. The Government is just feeding stray cats, when those strays really need to be adopted and domesticated. Feeding strays just makes the problem grow.

 

[just-want-peace]

My heart and prayers go out to true Christian martyrs. I have a friend who's an attorney from Syria. He and his parents barely got out of there alive but his fiancee was killed. He and his father spoke about their experience in our church. I consider helping refugees like those escaping from situations like you and I have described to be God's work. Trump and the Republican party want to make them return to die.

I obviously do not KNOW what is in your mind with tripe such as this, BUT the dominant implication is that you are a fervent devotee to the political/religious left regardless of the stance being discussed. CTB lies like this, that he was famous for, (highlighted portion) add squat to the possibility of anyone other than leftist idiots taking you seriously!!!! (I still think you are AKA CTB )

 

[FollowTheWay]

According to State Department figures recorded in 2015, of the Iraqi refugees let into the country 2,098 were Muslims while only 53 were Christians. This even though Christian were being heavily persecuted. I don't understand this sort of thing.

Iraq Religions - CIA World Factbook May 1, 2018
Muslim (official) 95-98% (Shia 64-69%, Sunni 29-34%), Christian 1% (includes Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant, Assyrian Church of the East), other 1-4%[1]

The World Factbook — Central Intelligence Agency

Muslims are by far the majority religion in Iraq (95-98%). But the different sects of Muslim hate each other in much the same way as they hate Christians. When the U.S. took down Saddam Hussein, it removed am oppressive Sunni minority regime. This caused a civil war and a backlash of the majority Shia Muslims who supported ISIS against the Sunni. Both the Sunni Muslims and Christians are being persecuted but the majority of refugees are Sunni Muslims since they far outnumber Christians in Iraq.

 

[FollowTheWay]

atpollard posts a strong advocacy that churches need to step up to the plate and help the needy, and the above response twists that into an inference that atpollard does not want them to be helped. Talk about putting people in boxes!

I calculated one time that it would take $200,000/Christian church in America just to provide medical insurance for those who are eligible for ObamaCare. This includes both protestant and Catholic churches. A small number of churches could do that but the great majority of churches could not. this doesn't include providing food and help for the disabled and elderly. I would far rather for the church to provide this care in the name of Jesus but it is obviously impossible.

 

[FollowTheWay]

I obviously do not KNOW what is in your mind with tripe such as this, BUT the dominant implication is that you are a fervent devotee to the political/religious left regardless of the stance being discussed. CTB lies like this, that he was famous for, (highlighted portion) add squat to the possibility of anyone other than leftist idiots taking you seriously!!!! (I still think you are AKA CTB )

I provided a true case in which a Christian family from Syria barely escaped with one being killed. returning the others to Syria would result in their death. Do you think they should be allowed to stay or be sent back? Now consider all the other refugees coming to America due to persecution in their home country. Do you want to stay here and be safe or return to be killed?

 

[Revmitchell]

So the new DNC talking point is that everyone coming to America is a refugee looking for assylum and we should just let them all in unfettered. Don't believe it.

 

[Adonia]

Iraq Religions - CIA World Factbook May 1, 2018
Muslim (official) 95-98% (Shia 64-69%, Sunni 29-34%), Christian 1% (includes Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant, Assyrian Church of the East), other 1-4%[1]

The World Factbook — Central Intelligence Agency

Muslims are by far the majority religion in Iraq (95-98%). But the different sects of Muslim hate each other in much the same way as they hate Christians. When the U.S. took down Saddam Hussein, it removed am oppressive Sunni minority regime. This caused a civil war and a backlash of the majority Shia Muslims who supported ISIS against the Sunni. Both the Sunni Muslims and Christians are being persecuted but the majority of refugees are Sunni Muslims since they far outnumber Christians in Iraq.

But when they come here, Muslims are certainly different from the majority Christian world that is America. Obama's problem was the vetting, he was allowing Muslims here with vetting done by the UN, who in turn contracted with locals (who were by and large Muslims themselves) and thus, we really did not know who exactly was coming in here. President Trump wanted to do better vetting and stop allowing Muslims in who are from State Department defined "terrorist" countries into our country. In a dangerous world where Muslims are the major perpetrators of violence today, this only makes common sense.

 

[Adonia]

I calculated one time that it would take $200,000/Christian church in America just to provide medical insurance for those who are eligible for ObamaCare. This includes both protestant and Catholic churches. A small number of churches could do that but the great majority of churches could not. this doesn't include providing food and help for the disabled and elderly. I would far rather for the church to provide this care in the name of Jesus but it is obviously impossible.

So then you would just rather see continued deficit spending for all this stuff I guess. The biggest part of government outlays is on "entitlements", things that were never intended for the Federal government to be involved in. At what point will we ever enough is enough, or will the entire system have to come crashing down before that happens? Our level of spending is unsustainable without severe consequences to us all at some point.

 

[atpollard]

I calculated one time that it would take $200,000/Christian church in America just to provide medical insurance for those who are eligible for ObamaCare. This includes both protestant and Catholic churches. A small number of churches could do that but the great majority of churches could not. this doesn't include providing food and help for the disabled and elderly. I would far rather for the church to provide this care in the name of Jesus but it is obviously impossible.

The Government was unable to fund 'ObamaCare' either, the program went bankrupt and Insurance Providers dropped out of participation because they lost money even with the Government subsidies.

One local hospital funds a free clinic because it costs them less to provide free care at a clinic than to have to provide free non-emergency care in an ER. There are more efficient ways to provide care than a single-payer system. So saying that the Church cannot fund a system that nobody can fund is an unfair yardstick to hold up.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

And it completely shreds his “I separate church and state” statement.

 

[FollowTheWay]

But when they come here, Muslims are certainly different from the majority Christian world that is America. Obama's problem was the vetting, he was allowing Muslims here with vetting done by the UN, who in turn contracted with locals (who were by and large Muslims themselves) and thus, we really did not know who exactly was coming in here. President Trump wanted to do better vetting and stop allowing Muslims in who are from State Department defined "terrorist" countries into our country. In a dangerous world where Muslims are the major perpetrators of violence today, this only makes common sense.

The major perpetrators of terrorist violence in America are Americans not immigrants from Muslim countries.

 

[FollowTheWay]

So then you would just rather see continued deficit spending for all this stuff I guess. The biggest part of government outlays is on "entitlements", things that were never intended for the Federal government to be involved in. At what point will we ever enough is enough, or will the entire system have to come crashing down before that happens? Our level of spending is unsustainable without severe consequences to us all at some point.

Read my lips. I PAID for Social Security and Medicare. You're darned straight I am entitled to it. Republicans just passed a budget busting tax bill to aid the rich. Why weren't you concerned about deficits then?

 

[FollowTheWay]

The Government was unable to fund 'ObamaCare' either, the program went bankrupt and Insurance Providers dropped out of participation because they lost money even with the Government subsidies.

One local hospital funds a free clinic because it costs them less to provide free care at a clinic than to have to provide free non-emergency care in an ER. There are more efficient ways to provide care than a single-payer system. So saying that the Church cannot fund a system that nobody can fund is an unfair yardstick to hold up.

Right now we have the worst healthcare system of all developed countries but spend the most for it. Obamacare is not a single payer system by the way. It's the private alternative and was originally proposed by the heritage Foundation. It is working in Mass. where Romney introduced it. Insurance companies are withdrawing because all the Republican majority (President, House, Senate, Supreme Court) says is that their objective is to repeal it.
An original bi-partisan approach could have made it more efficient by tort reform and allowing insurance companies to offer coverage across state boundaries. These are ideas proposed by Republicans in their bogus replacement for Obamacare. Their only objective during the Obama administration was to block everything he tried to accomplish. With this kind of pathetic unwillingness to work together for the benefit of the American people led to just what you would expect. A do-nothing Congress and an administration bent on reversing everything the Democrats did without any rational alternatives.

 

[Adonia]

It is working in Mass. where Romney introduced it.

And that is called "Federalism", where the sovereign individual states have the legal power to implement such programs. If that's what the citizens of Massachusetts want, then that is their right, but imposing a one size fits all program from Washington is not the answer.

 

[Adonia]

Read my lips. I PAID for Social Security and Medicare. You're darned straight I am entitled to it. Republicans just passed a budget busting tax bill to aid the rich. Why weren't you concerned about deficits then?

Agreed, those programs you paid for and are entitled to them. However, if these programs are so good, why not make them voluntary? The fact is, they are a Ponzi scheme where the workers of today are the ones who pay for those who are no longer working. If they were voluntary, educated citizens would flee such programs in droves, people are forced to participate in them. Except of course if one is a member of the Congress or other Federal institutions, they get an out. As for other things, programs like SNAP, Section 8 housing, Medicaid, and a hundred other programs are not paid for by those who use them, they are paid by the taxpayer and that is what has become our biggest problem.

 

[FollowTheWay]

And that is called "Federalism", where the sovereign individual states have the legal power to implement such programs. If that's what the citizens of Massachusetts want, then that is their right, but imposing a one size fits all program from Washington is not the answer.

So let the poor and aged people die, right? They don't deserve medical care.

 

[atpollard]

So let the poor and aged people die, right? They don't deserve medical care.

GOD's response to the question. Take it or leave it ...

2 Thesselonians 3:6-15

6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from every brother who leads an unruly life and not according to the tradition which you received from us. 7 For you yourselves know how you ought to follow our example, because we did not act in an undisciplined manner among you, 8 nor did we eat anyone’s bread without paying for it, but with labor and hardship we kept working night and day so that we would not be a burden to any of you; 9 not because we do not have the right to this, but in order to offer ourselves as a model for you, so that you would follow our example. 10 For even when we were with you, we used to give you this order: if anyone is not willing to work, then he is not to eat, either. 11 For we hear that some among you are leading an undisciplined life, doing no work at all, but acting like busybodies. 12 Now such persons we command and exhort in the Lord Jesus Christ to work in quiet fashion and eat their own bread. 13 But as for you, brethren, do not grow weary of doing good.

14 If anyone does not obey our instruction in this letter, take special note of that person and do not associate with him, so that he will be put to shame. 15 Yet do not regard him as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.​

 

[FollowTheWay]

Agreed, those programs you paid for and are entitled to them. However, if these programs are so good, why not make them voluntary? The fact is, they are a Ponzi scheme where the workers of today are the ones who pay for those who are no longer working. If they were voluntary, educated citizens would flee such programs in droves, people are forced to participate in them. Except of course if one is a member of the Congress or other Federal institutions, they get an out. As for other things, programs like SNAP, Section 8 housing, Medicaid, and a hundred other programs are not paid for by those who use them, they are paid by the taxpayer and that is what has become our biggest problem.

In reality, the Social Security system should be perfectly solvent. The problem doesn't lie in the balance of funds collected and paid out. It lies in the government stealing social security funds to use for other purposes. I started a new thread explaining how this happened.

 

[Adonia]

So let the poor and aged people die, right? They don't deserve medical care.

No, the individual states should be providing such things to their citizens. With that, all can see that: A. You do not support the Federal Constitution. B. You do not support the concept of Federalism.

"The rich rule over the poor and the borrower is slave to the lender". (Proverbs 22:7).

All the Federal governments borrowing has made us slaves to countries like China and the banks. Our interest on all this borrowing is now in the billions, and according to debt.org approximately one dollar of every 4 dollars spent goes to interest payments. Stop and think will you of all the good uses that money could be put to if it were available instead of going to the moneylenders.

Sad to say, but this stuff will only end when the whole kit and caboodle comes crashing down and then everyone will suffer equally. We need to end all this deficit spending and return to sound Constitutional governing - anything less will be the ruin of us all. I fear we have already reached the point of no return.

 

[Adonia]

In reality, the Social Security system should be perfectly solvent.

Yeah but it isn't, thanks to the insatiable spending of those in the government. Contrary to Al Gore's assertion, there was never a "lockbox" that would keep Social Security monies unavailable from being used for anything else.

But we also have the problem of today's workers paying for today's retirees. At one point there was like 10 workers or more paying into the system for every retiree, now it's down to 3 or 4 today. It's called a "Ponzi" scheme and if me or you tried such a thing privately we would be subject to arrest and prosecution. When the Federal government does it, it's just the normal way of doing business.