Do you believe the once saved can again be lost?

[canadyjd]

If you can't see that we can depart from the faith and it's only through our own faults that we do it, then go ahead and believe it.

I base everything I believe on scripture.

What you said isn’t biblical.

If you want to believe secular philosophy instead of scripture then go ahead and believe it.

Peace to you

 

[Silverhair]

I agree and the topic is supremely frustrating.

It seems like half the verses on salvation indicate we must persevere to maintain it, while the other half indicate that the new birth cannot be aborted or forfeited or lost. I could easily make a strong case for Once Saved Always Saved, but could also easily prove that Salvation Can
Be Lost.

Salvation is achieved when we confess Jesus as Lord (we have to act like He is our master for the confession to be authentic) and believe God raised Him from the dead. We must also trust that Jesus died for our personal sins. This is called believing in Jesus Christ. Salvation seems to be a one time event, not a process that can be disrupted and fail to be concluded.

As I repeatedly state, the primary thing is to harshly examine ourselves and decide if we really LOVE God more than anything (pleasures, intoxicants, entertainment, wealth, sex, possessions, family, country, political party, education, military, denomination, music, food, etc.) and we actually obey the commands of Jesus and the instructions in the church epistles.

It is when we struggle to conquer personal sinful indulgences, or realize we have been too gleefully and obliviously backsliding, that the issue of OSAS becomes a burning issue.

Jesus said a good tree cannot produce bad fruit and a bad tree cannot produce good fruit. This freaks me out sometimes, when I survey my past life. How is my fruit? I DO NOT want to hear Jesus say, “I never knew you. Depart from me you worker of iniquity.”

How often do today’s Americanized Christian preachers talk about this grim reality of assuming you are going to heaven, but are headed for hell?

In my Christian experience over the last 65+ years I have found that the preaching has become more and more social. Why upset the people by telling them that their sins are not just mistakes that God will overlook.

Have your best life now is the message they want to hear. This fits right in with OSAS as why worry about those sins if you are saved no matter what. It becomes one and done.

 

[easternstar]

We are obviously not going to solve this question here; it has been debated for centuries. However, it is interesting to discuss, and fruitful to do so, in my opinion.
I don't have all the answers. But I do have some beliefs. I believe it is possible to be saved and then willfully forfeit that salvation. What I don't believe is that a person can be saved this week, and then next week lose that salvation, then regain it, and lose it again, etc.

 

[Silverhair]

I base everything I believe on scripture.

What you said isn’t biblical.

If you want to believe secular philosophy instead of scripture then go ahead and believe it.

Peace to you

Scripture says we can walk away so if you believe scripture then why do you not believe that?

 

[Charlie24]

I base everything I believe on scripture.

What you said isn’t biblical.

If you want to believe secular philosophy instead of scripture then go ahead and believe it.

Peace to you

Seems you don't want that responsibility, but you have it!

Nothing to worry about if you keep a constant check on it.

2 Cor. 13:5

"Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?"

 

[canadyjd]

Scripture says we can walk away so if you believe scripture then why do you not believe that?

Please provide the passage of scripture that says we (Christians) can walk away… from Christ? From salvation?

I’m willing to discuss any passage of scripture, in context.

My point about Hebrews 6 Is that I have yet to find someone that believes it teaches you can lose salvation that also believes you can never get it back.

And, again, I can reconcile my belief in eternal security with this passage. I have never found someone that believes you can lose salvation that can reconcile all the passages that testify we cannot.

Peace to you

 

[Silverhair]

Please provide the passage of scripture that says we (Christians) can walk away… from Christ? From salvation?

I’m willing to discuss any passage of scripture, in context.

My point about Hebrews 6 Is that I have yet to find someone that believes it teaches you can lose salvation that also believes you can never get it back.

And, again, I can reconcile my belief in eternal security with this passage. I have never found someone that believes you can lose salvation that can reconcile all the passages that testify we cannot.

Peace to you

This is the context we need to look at

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,
Heb 6:5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
Heb 6:6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

Here is a list of what I see as critical words found in Heb 6:4-6

been enlightened G5461

illuminate, make one see or understand (Eph_3:9 WSD

to enlighten spiritually, Joh_1:9; Eph_1:18; Eph_3:9; Heb_6:4; Heb_10:32 Mounce


have tasted G1089 of the heavenly gift

Metaphorically, to experience, prove, partake of. With the acc. (Heb_6:5) WSD

perception of, experience, Heb_6:4-5; 1Pe_2:3 Mounce


partakers G3353 of the Holy Spirit

As a noun, a partaker (Heb_3:1, Heb_3:14; Heb_6:4; Heb_12:8) WSD

a partaker, Heb_3:1; Heb_3:14; Heb_6:4; Heb_12:8; Mounce


have fallen G3895 away G3895

Used only in Heb_6:6, denoting a falling away, an abandonment. Some have suggested that this word and its noun paráptōma ([G3900], a lapse, error, wrongdoing) indicate errors of weakness, faults or accidents and do not represent deliberate, blameworthy or willful sin, contending that this would be expressed by parabaínō (G3845), to willfully transgress. However, the usus loquendi of the words (verb and noun) yield no such meaning but in every case signify deliberate acts of sin. WSD

{THE USUS LOQUENDI, is the usual mode of speaking. When applied to the Scriptures, it denotes the general scriptural use of words.}

to fall by the side of; met. to fall off or away from, make defection from, Heb_6:6. Mounce


impossible G102

In a neut. or pass. sense meaning impossible, not to be done (Mat_19:26; Mar_10:27; Luk_18:27; Heb_6:4, Heb_6:18; Heb_10:4; Heb_11:6). WSD

impotent, weak; impossible. Mounce


to renew G340

To renew. Occurs only in Heb_6:6, anakainízein eis metánoian (eis [G1619], unto; metánoian, the acc. of metánoia [G3341], repentance), meaning to have a new or qualitatively different kind of repentance which would see the person who had it through to the very end. WSD

to renovate, renew, Heb_6:6 Mounce


to repentance G3341

Repentance, change of mind from evil to good or from good to better (Mat_3:8, Mat_3:11; Mat_9:13 [TR]; Mar_2:17; Luk_3:8; Luk_5:32; Luk_15:7; Act_5:31; Act_20:21; Act_26:20; Rom_2:4; Heb_6:6; Heb_12:17; 2Pe_3:9) WSD

a change of mode of thought and feeling, repentance Mounce

@canadyjd it matters not whether you can find someone that believes it teaches you can lose salvation that also believes you can never get it back. It matters what the text shows us.

I have no problem reconciling eternal security with passages the show we can turn away from our faith. Since we can freely choose to trust in or reject God for our salvation that poses no problem for me.