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Do you recognise the differences between reformed/calvinist/Hyper?

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saturneptune

New Member
Norman Geisler likes to redefine historical theology.He is certainly an Arminian-to-semi-Pelagian.
You do not know what you are talking about. Geisler maintains that he is a "moderate Calvinist," as outlined in his book Chosen But Free (1999).

He is widely considered a conservative evangelical, in spite of the misgivings that both Arminian and Calvinist polemicists have with his "moderate Calvinism". He rejects the classical Calvinist tenets of unconditional election, limited atonement and irresistible grace, yet retains modified versions of total depravity and perseverance of the saints. In response to this James R. White, a Calvinist pastor and apologist, wrote The Potter's Freedom (2000). One of White's contentions is that Geisler's "moderate Calvinism" appears to be an "inconsistent" Arminianism, in opposition to the more robust views espoused by John Calvin.

Dr. Geisler has also been an outspoken critic of "open theism", especially it's doctrine of "limited foreknowledge", which he maintains is a deeply flawed subversion of "classical theism." And while his own views are akin to Thomism in approach, especially in Thomas Aquinas: An Evangelical Appraisal (1991 Baker), he adamantly rejects Aquinas' Catholic Sacramentalism, the Papacy, Monasticism, veneration of Saints and Purgatory.

You are an Arminian. Embrace your position,don't try to be evasive.
You have no right to label someone else. You are not even sure what you are.

And just what were some of the errors of Calvinism he did not embrace?
There are no errors in Calvinism, just in Calvin. I thought you agreed with Calvinism in all its points? So now are you saying there is some disagreement. Do you know what you believe?
 
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Iconoclast

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
DrJamesAch
I answered you in several other posts,

You answered nothing.

and when you responded, you scattered your response over about 10 different posts, and ignored 50% of what I said, and even others noticed that you failed to respond to a majority of what I argued.

Why lie?....I told you what happened and even put the
posts all together so you have no excuse and you did not respond at all

And even on the James White issue, when I gave my second reply showing you where you and one other missed where I did respond about him, and even gave you the post # to where the response was at, you still failed to respond.

Your link showed nothing

It was after that that I choose not respond to anymore of your arguments because you begin with the assumption that those who disagree with you are 1) Stupid 2) uninformed 3)don't understand anything they read.

I never said that....that is your lame attempt at an excuse to not respond.

Thus I choose to respond to you differently than I choose to respond to rationally minded people on here.

No...you have evaded everything I asked ///and I can see you have nothing...so you try in vain to explain it away. very sad...

There are numerous people on this forum that I disagree with, yet we have discussions without the condescending rhetoric that you offer in any post, which you follow up with blatant equivocation and outright lying about responses you were given.

The only condescending rhetoric is your bloviating posts about your "rank"..supposed knowledge and study...

as far as outright lying...you have not answered anything at all...just shooting off your mouth...another keyboard RAMBO....big talk, no answers.

So when I say I'm the doc and you are wrong, that is my way of saying that you have lost the opportunity to discuss any Biblical topic with me because I draw the line at being right, and being offensive in demeaning other believers because they disagree with you.

Nice excuse again...but I am not fooled by your cowardly actions concerning Dr.White....or any here you have responded to you...

When a person simply argues to prove they are right instead of promoting meaningful discussion that may aid in another persons better understanding of the Bible, the recipient of such vitriol is under no obligation to respond.

Again....no one is arguing....you come in here and attack BB members who understand the doctrines of grace.You attack Dr.White who is known world wide when he is not here to speak for himself....and you come off bragging about yourself ...as if anyone has heard of you.
If my failure to respond to arguments I've already responded to makes you feel like a winner, congratulations, you win.

You have not responded ...and it is clear you do not intend to. I am not trying to win anything...I can just spot nonsense when I see it.You thought you were being cute insulting everyone....but you are short on scriptural responses.. You seem like a fraud....judging by your foul accusatory posting.
My duty as a Christian isn't to win debates by slandering other believers
,

Like Dr .White...who would toast you on any area of scripture and expose your ignorant mouthings.

it's to present the truth based on solid Biblical principles

no one has seen you do that anywhere That i have seen.

and doing so without being venomous to the opponents who may not agree with my position.

You insulted all who believe the Doctrines of grace....you have been called on it, plain and simple....and you cannot respond evidently, so now look to project your nasty posts on any of us who respond to you....you are not fooling anyone.
When you respond in such fashion, I treat you the same way I would an atheist that deliberately attempts to sabotage the faith of other believers.
"Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him. Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit." Proverbs 26:4-5[/QUOTE]

Cute...at least you used a verse:thumbsup:
 

DrJamesAch

New Member
DrJamesAch


You answered nothing.



Why lie?....I told you what happened and even put the
posts all together so you have no excuse and you did not respond at all



Your link showed nothing



I never said that....that is your lame attempt at an excuse to not respond.



No...you have evaded everything I asked ///and I can see you have nothing...so you try in vain to explain it away. very sad...



The only condescending rhetoric is your bloviating posts about your "rank"..supposed knowledge and study...

as far as outright lying...you have not answered anything at all...just shooting off your mouth...another keyboard RAMBO....big talk, no answers.



Nice excuse again...but I am not fooled by your cowardly actions concerning Dr.White....or any here you have responded to you...



Again....no one is arguing....you come in here and attack BB members who understand the doctrines of grace.You attack Dr.White who is known world wide when he is not here to speak for himself....and you come off bragging about yourself ...as if anyone has heard of you.


You have not responded ...and it is clear you do not intend to. I am not trying to win anything...I can just spot nonsense when I see it.You thought you were being cute insulting everyone....but you are short on scriptural responses.. You seem like a fraud....judging by your foul accusatory posting.
,

Like Dr .White...who would toast you on any area of scripture and expose your ignorant mouthings.



no one has seen you do that anywhere That i have seen.



You insulted all who believe the Doctrines of grace....you have been called on it, plain and simple....and you cannot respond evidently, so now look to project your nasty posts on any of us who respond to you....you are not fooling anyone.

"Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him. Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit." Proverbs 26:4-5

Cute...at least you used a verse:thumbsup:[/QUOTE]

If I can point to just ONE post where I not only responded to you, but used scripture to back up my argument, will you admit that you are a liar! If not, no point in responding to you because that sums it up.
 

Rippon

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Geisler maintains that he is a "moderate Calvinist," as outlined in his book Chosen But Free (1999).

And he is nothing of the sort. He is in the Arminian camp whether he will admit to it or not.

You have no right to label someone else.

Of course I have the right. You do it all the time,but in a much harsher tone. According to Historical Theology,Geisler is an Arminian for the most part.

I thought you agreed with Calvinism in all its points? So now are you saying there is some disagreement.

Sonny,you have lost your place. I was responding to DJA when he said that Spurgeon did not embrace some Calvinistic errors. I had asked him what supposed errors he was referencing. Okay,go to the back of the line when you can follow along.
 

Iconoclast

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Ach

Spurgeon believed that men could come to Christ of their own free will.

Really?....Sure he did:thumbsup:
that is why he wrote this:
http://www.spurgeon.org/sermons/0052.htm..Free will a slave-

This is one of the great guns of the Arminians, mounted upon the top of their walls, and often discharged with terrible noise against the poor Christians called Calvinists. I intend to spike the gun this morning, or, rather, to turn it on the enemy, for it was never theirs; it was never cast at their foundry at all, but was intended to teach the very opposite doctrine to that which they assert. Usually, when the text is taken, the divisions are: First, that man has a will. Secondly, that he is entirely free. Thirdly, that men must make themselves willing to come to Christ, otherwise they will not be saved. Now, we shall have no such divisions; but we will endeavour to take a more calm look at the text; and not, because there happen to be the words "will," or "will not" in it, run away with the conclusion that it teaches the doctrine of free-will. It has already been proved beyond all controversy that free-will is nonsense. Freedom cannot belong to will any more than ponderability can belong to electricity. They are altogether different things. Free agency we may believe in, but free-will is simply ridiculous. The will is well known by all to be directed by the understanding, to be moved by motives, to be guided by other parts of the soul, and to be a secondary thing. Philosophy and religion both discard at once the very thought of free-will; and I will go as far as Martin Luther, in that strong assertion of his, where he says, "If any man doth ascribe aught of salvation, even the very least, to the free-will of man, he knoweth nothing of grace, and he hath not learnt Jesus Christ aright." It may seem a harsh sentiment; but he who in his soul believes that man does of his own free-will turn to God, cannot have been taught of God, for that is one of the first principles taught us when God begins with us, that we have neither will nor power, but that he gives both; that he is "Alpha and Omega" in the salvation of men.
Our four points, this morning, shall be: First—that every man is dead, because it says: "Ye will not come to me, that ye might have life." Secondly—that there is life in Jesus Christ: "Ye will not come to me, that ye might have life." Thirdly—that there is life in Christ Jesus for every one that comes for it: "Ye will not come to me, that ye might have life;" implying that all who go will have life. And fourthly—the gist of the text lies here, that no man by nature ever will come to Christ, for the text says, "Ye will not come to me, that ye might have life." So far from asserting that men of their own wills ever do such a thing, it boldly and flatly denies it, and says, "Ye WILL NOT come to me, that ye might have life." Why, beloved, I am almost ready to exclaim, Have all free-willers no knowledge that they dare to run in the teeth of inspiration? Have all those that deny the doctrine of grace no sense? Have they so departed from God that they wrest this to prove free-will; whereas the text says, "Ye WILL NOT come to me that ye might have life."

Now...I am sure you are really a DR...of theology...everyone who knows anything knows about this.....and you do not??? That is why early on when you posted others told you maybe you should learn about the teaching before being critical...but it did not slow you down.

read the whole sermon and learn a bit before posting what you do.
 
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saturneptune

New Member
And he is nothing of the sort. He is in the Arminian camp whether he will admit to it or not.



Of course I have the right. You do it all the time,but in a much harsher tone. According to Historical Theology,Geisler is an Arminian for the most part.



Sonny,you have lost your place. I was responding to DJA when he said that Spurgeon did not embrace some Calvinistic errors. I had asked him what supposed errors he was referencing. Okay,go to the back of the line when you can follow along.

You are all over the map. How could one put your thought process into a parable?

A Chinese fire drill............

A chimpanzee with a football............

Really, did you watch too many episodes of Ricochet Rabbit as a kid?
 

Iconoclast

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Ach

If I can point to just ONE post where I not only responded to you, but used scripture to back up my argument, will you admit that you are a liar! If not, no point in responding to you because that sums it up.
Why not respond to this:
Unless you take a historic confession of faith which gives the correct definition of the teaching and interact with it, you are making false caricatures instead, and so avoiding the truth which you cannot overturn at all.
Pick any of the points here in the 1689: related to God's grace and show how all the Cal's have it wrong....
http://www.vor.org/truth/1689/1689bc00.html

to them who are the called according to his purpose.

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
Explain these verses as offered by Cals' show why you believe this does not teach what Cals say it does....
 

DrJamesAch

New Member
Ach



Really?....Sure he did:thumbsup:
that is why he wrote this:
http://www.spurgeon.org/sermons/0052.htm..Free will a slave-

This is one of the great guns of the Arminians, mounted upon the top of their walls, and often discharged with terrible noise against the poor Christians called Calvinists. I intend to spike the gun this morning, or, rather, to turn it on the enemy, for it was never theirs; it was never cast at their foundry at all, but was intended to teach the very opposite doctrine to that which they assert. Usually, when the text is taken, the divisions are: First, that man has a will. Secondly, that he is entirely free. Thirdly, that men must make themselves willing to come to Christ, otherwise they will not be saved. Now, we shall have no such divisions; but we will endeavour to take a more calm look at the text; and not, because there happen to be the words "will," or "will not" in it, run away with the conclusion that it teaches the doctrine of free-will. It has already been proved beyond all controversy that free-will is nonsense. Freedom cannot belong to will any more than ponderability can belong to electricity. They are altogether different things. Free agency we may believe in, but free-will is simply ridiculous. The will is well known by all to be directed by the understanding, to be moved by motives, to be guided by other parts of the soul, and to be a secondary thing. Philosophy and religion both discard at once the very thought of free-will; and I will go as far as Martin Luther, in that strong assertion of his, where he says, "If any man doth ascribe aught of salvation, even the very least, to the free-will of man, he knoweth nothing of grace, and he hath not learnt Jesus Christ aright." It may seem a harsh sentiment; but he who in his soul believes that man does of his own free-will turn to God, cannot have been taught of God, for that is one of the first principles taught us when God begins with us, that we have neither will nor power, but that he gives both; that he is "Alpha and Omega" in the salvation of men.
Our four points, this morning, shall be: First—that every man is dead, because it says: "Ye will not come to me, that ye might have life." Secondly—that there is life in Jesus Christ: "Ye will not come to me, that ye might have life." Thirdly—that there is life in Christ Jesus for every one that comes for it: "Ye will not come to me, that ye might have life;" implying that all who go will have life. And fourthly—the gist of the text lies here, that no man by nature ever will come to Christ, for the text says, "Ye will not come to me, that ye might have life." So far from asserting that men of their own wills ever do such a thing, it boldly and flatly denies it, and says, "Ye WILL NOT come to me, that ye might have life." Why, beloved, I am almost ready to exclaim, Have all free-willers no knowledge that they dare to run in the teeth of inspiration? Have all those that deny the doctrine of grace no sense? Have they so departed from God that they wrest this to prove free-will; whereas the text says, "Ye WILL NOT come to me that ye might have life."

Now...I am sure you are really a DR...of theology...everyone who knows anything knows about this.....and you do not??? That is why early on when you posted others told you maybe you should learn about the teaching before being critical...but it did not slow you down.

read the whole sermon and learn a bit before posting what you do.

Spurgeon Come and Welcome, 1859:

"II. In the second place we observe from the text that the invitation is very wide—"WHOSOEVER WILL, LET HIM TAKE THE WATER OF LIFE FREELY." How wide is this invitation! There are some ministers who are afraid to invite sinners, then why are they ministers! for they are afraid to perform the most important part of the sacred office. There was a time I must confess when I somewhat faltered when about to give a free invitation. My doctrinal sentiments did at thee time somewhat hamper me. I boldly avow that I am unchanged as to the doctrines I have preached; I preach Calvinism as high, as stern, and as sound as ever; but I do feel, and always did feel an anxiety to invite sinners to Christ"

"The one question I have to ask this morning is, art thou willing? if so, Christ bids thee take the water of life. Art thou willing? if so, be pardoned, be sanctified be made whole. For if thou art willing Christ is willing too, and thou art freely invited to come and welcome to the fountain of life and grace."

Perhaps you should recognize that Spurgeon had conflicts throughout his ministry in regards to some of Calvins teachings and clearly practiced otherwise before you throw out your internet theology and accuse someone of not having studied the man.

Spurgeon talked to my great great great great grandfather while they were eating cotton candy 4 years after Spurgeon preached his sermon in 1855 against free will and helped put at least a little bit of sense into Spurgeon :)

Furthermore, my positions against Calvinism do not depend on whether Spurgeon or any any other "scholar" agree. You can have Spurgeon, I'll take the Bible.
 
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DrJamesAch

New Member
Ach


Why not respond to this:
Unless you take a historic confession of faith which gives the correct definition of the teaching and interact with it, you are making false caricatures instead, and so avoiding the truth which you cannot overturn at all.
Pick any of the points here in the 1689: related to God's grace and show how all the Cal's have it wrong....
http://www.vor.org/truth/1689/1689bc00.html

to them who are the called according to his purpose.

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
Explain these verses as offered by Cals' show why you believe this does not teach what Cals say it does....
You don't get off that easy. Your statement was that I did not respond to you at all, and that I never used Scripture. Now you can either own that statement, and I will show you the posts from the archives that say you are incorrect, or you can admit that you made a statement without checking it first.
 

Iconoclast

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Ach

Spurgeon Come and Welcome, 1859:

"II. In the second place we observe from the text that the invitation is very wide—"WHOSOEVER WILL, LET HIM TAKE THE WATER OF LIFE FREELY." How wide is this invitation! There are some ministers who are afraid to invite sinners, then why are they ministers! for they are afraid to perform the most important part of the sacred office. There was a time I must confess when I somewhat faltered when about to give a free invitation. My doctrinal sentiments did at thee time somewhat hamper me. I boldly avow that I am unchanged as to the doctrines I have preached; I preach Calvinism as high, as stern, and as sound as ever; but I do feel, and always did feel an anxiety to invite sinners to Christ"

"The one question I have to ask this morning is, art thou willing? if so, Christ bids thee take the water of life. Art thou willing? if so, be pardoned, be sanctified be made whole. For if thou art willing Christ is willing too, and thou art freely invited to come and welcome to the fountain of life and grace
."

Calvinists believe that all saved sinners come...quite willingly....That is why we have reacted against your false charges as we have. Why do you think a calvinist would not preach this???

Perhaps you should recognize that Spurgeon had conflicts throughout his ministry in regards to some of Calvins teachings and clearly practiced otherwise before you throw out your internet theology and accuse someone of not having studied the man.

Hardly...internet theology...i have all of Spurgeons sermons , metropolitan tabernacle,and new park street....so try again....also know all about the downgrade controversy.

Spurgeons cathechism...5 point through and through...nice try:wavey:

Spurgeon talked to my great great great great grandfather while they were eating cotton candy 4 years after Spurgeon preached his sermon in 1855 against free will and helped put at least a little bit of sense into Spurgeon

I am sure.....you have a vivid imagination:thumbsup:

Furthermore, my positions against Calvinism do not depend on whether Spurgeon or any any other "scholar" agree. You can have Spurgeon, I'll take the Bible.

We all deal in the bible my friend....that is what we are asking you to do....
We will take the bible, Spurgeon, the reformers and puritans.....you can keep Finney ,Arminius, and other such....
 
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DrJamesAch

New Member
Ach

."

Calvinists believe that all saved sinners come...quite willingly....That is why we have reacted against your false charges as we have. Why do you think a calvinist would not preach this???





Hardly...internet theology...i have all of Spurgeons sermons , metropolitan tabernacle,and new park street....so try again....also know all about the downgrade controversy.

Spurgeons cathechism...5 point through and through...nice try:wavey:



I am sure.....you have a vivid imagination:thumbsup:



We all deal in the bible my friend....that is what we are asking you to do....
We will take the bible, Spurgeon, the reformers and puritans.....you can keep Finney ,Arminius, and other such....

No Calvinist do not believe in free will. If you think that Calvinism teaches free will or that a sinner can willingly and freely come to Christ, it is you who do not understand Calvinism.
However,the fact that you used an older sermon by Charles Spurgeon where he preached against free will proves that you previously understood Spurgeon's Calvinism as being against free will until I showed you a later sermon (and there are more) where he capitulated, and now you are equivocating on your former argument.

And notice you said "We will take the bible, Spurgeon, the reformers and puritans" and that's the difference between us: I take no man but Jesus Christ. I read many of these authors years ago, and I occasionally read a book, but rarely do I spend time outside of the Bible alone.

I don't care what one knows about Spurgeon, Calvin, Finney, "downgrade controversy", you don't need to prove what you know about what someone else believes, tell me BIBLE, and what YOU believe about the Bible, but if what you believe is based on another man's teaching, and the interpretation is wrong, then I will use the Bible, and the Bible alone to refute it. You won't see me pulling out quotes from some man to prove my points or support my opinions about the BIBLE.
 
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Iconoclast

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Ach

You don't get off that easy. Your statement was that I did not respond to you at all, and that I never used Scripture.

I have not re-read the whole thread today....If you have offer some scripture I will respond....in post 147 I have asked 3x for a response....have not seen it yet.....I pasted together the posts you complained about...did not see a response.


Now you can either own that statement, and I will show you the posts from the archives that say you are incorrect, or you can admit that you made a statement without checking it first.

Like I said....when I checked you had not responded...if you did,then I am sorry that I did not see it....lets make it simple...

tell me what post numbers...you want me to respond to and I will....

in return....

you respond to post 147 please....

listen....we have not gotten off to a good start.....we can do this nonsense back and forth, or move forward and search the scripture...
Most of the cals on here will not back off at all...if you just insult and make false charges.....

I will respond to whatever you want responded to...if you are sincere.
You may or may not care for my responses...that is between you and God.

I will respond in detail in awhile...my wife has me doing yardwork, so she over-rules...if a man will not work, he should not eat:laugh:

If you do not agree with me that is fine...but do so scripturally .I will respond in kind. let's try this again!
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Spurgeon Come and Welcome, 1859:

"II. In the second place we observe from the text that the invitation is very wide—"WHOSOEVER WILL, LET HIM TAKE THE WATER OF LIFE FREELY." How wide is this invitation! There are some ministers who are afraid to invite sinners, then why are they ministers! for they are afraid to perform the most important part of the sacred office. There was a time I must confess when I somewhat faltered when about to give a free invitation. My doctrinal sentiments did at thee time somewhat hamper me. I boldly avow that I am unchanged as to the doctrines I have preached; I preach Calvinism as high, as stern, and as sound as ever; but I do feel, and always did feel an anxiety to invite sinners to Christ"

"The one question I have to ask this morning is, art thou willing? if so, Christ bids thee take the water of life. Art thou willing? if so, be pardoned, be sanctified be made whole. For if thou art willing Christ is willing too, and thou art freely invited to come and welcome to the fountain of life and grace."

Perhaps you should recognize that Spurgeon had conflicts throughout his ministry in regards to some of Calvins teachings and clearly practiced otherwise before you throw out your internet theology and accuse someone of not having studied the man.

Spurgeon talked to my great great great great grandfather while they were eating cotton candy 4 years after Spurgeon preached his sermon in 1855 against free will and helped put at least a little bit of sense into Spurgeon :)

Furthermore, my positions against Calvinism do not depend on whether Spurgeon or any any other "scholar" agree. You can have Spurgeon, I'll take the Bible.

leyts discuss what jesus and His Apsotles had to say about this, Eh?

i am not one who holds to Calvin/Spurgeon as being inspired, though were gifted teachers/expositors of the word...

Nor do i hol dto the Confessions as being infallible/inpired, but as very detailed as to the doctrines of the faith...

How about back to the Bible, eh?
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Lets discuss.

Van natural man is not a carnal christian.
True, but do you think I said a natural man was a carnal Christian? I did not say or suggest any such thing.

In other places in the bible the word natural is referred to as sinful, 1 Cor 15:44 It is sown in a natural body; it is raised in a spiritual body. There is a natural body (sinful body) and ther is a spiritual body. 1 Cor 15:46-47 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. James 1:23-24 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face (sinful face) in a glass: For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
So we agree, a natural man of flesh has not been born again. Now note that Paul spoke to the born again babes in Christ as men of flesh. Thus the milk could be understood by men of flesh.
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
No Calvinist do not believe in free will. If you think that Calvinism teaches free will or that a sinner can willingly and freely come to Christ, it is you who do not understand Calvinism.
However,the fact that you used an older sermon by Charles Spurgeon where he preached against free will proves that you previously understood Spurgeon's Calvinism as being against free will until I showed you a later sermon (and there are more) where he capitulated, and now you are equivocating on your former argument.

And notice you said "We will take the bible, Spurgeon, the reformers and puritans" and that's the difference between us: I take no man but Jesus Christ. I read many of these authors years ago, and I occasionally read a book, but rarely do I spend time outside of the Bible alone.

I don't care what one knows about Spurgeon, Calvin, Finney, "downgrade controversy", you don't need to prove what you know about what someone else believes, tell me BIBLE, and what YOU believe about the Bible, but if what you believe is based on another man's teaching, and the interpretation is wrong, then I will use the Bible, and the Bible alone to refute it. You won't see me pulling out quotes from some man to prove my points or support my opinions about the BIBLE.

You have the myth of "free will" going on!
ONLY Adam and jesus have ever had true free will, for neither of them had a sin nature at birth of jesus, or creation of adam, but ALL save those 2 have been sinners...

the bible exposes us for what we are apart from jesus saving us, as wicked/deceitful/selfish creatures, who love the darkness and are at war with living God!

Our humanity wants to play god ourselves, why would we caome 'willingly' to Jesus, as he would take over what we cannot give Him apart from the grace and workingof God, our 'wills?"
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Hyper-Calvinists embrace the logical consequences of the DoG, that God is the author of sin and that God punishes sinners for the sins he causes.

Main-line Calvinists deny the logical consequences of the DoG, that God caused Total Spiritual Inability, and total spiritual inability causes the sin of rejecting Christ, and so deny God is the author of sin. Irrational and wrong.

Reformed, if they believe in the 5 points of the TULIP, are Calvinists in disguise.
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
True, but do you think I said a natural man was a carnal Christian? I did not say or suggest any such thing.

So we agree, a natural man of flesh has not been born again. Now note that Paul spoke to the born again babes in Christ as men of flesh. Thus the milk could be understood by men of flesh.

So natural man is one spiritually dead, found in adam, while one can be saved and thus be either a carnal/baby christian, or mature spiritual one!
 
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