Does a Person Have to Have a Born-Again Experience?

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

I agree that saved and regenerated are two different things.

In Luke 18, Jesus tells the story of the Pharisee and the tax collector, who went up to the temple area to pray. The tax collector prayed "God, be merciful to me, a sinner."

Jesus said he went home justified. This is the basis for my comment that God will respond for such a plea for mercy and grace from a lost sinner.

Now, I do believe that such a plea comes from one who has already been regenerated. And that is a unilateral act of the Holy Spirit upon an undeserving sinner.

Yeah, I agree with that, Tom. No one who is unregenerated can genuinely call himself a sinner.

 

[Yeshua1]

Yeah, I agree with that, Tom. No one who is unregenerated can genuinely call himself a sinner.

To be regenerated is to possess and have new nature/Spirit of Christ in you, how can one do that apart from "being saved?"

 

[Havensdad]

A person who is truly trusting in the Lord Jesus Christ, has been born again at some point. Nothing in scripture that talks about us pointing to some "moment." Its almost idolatry in the local church...a new kind of works righteousness. "You must have faith in Christ, AND be able to remember when you first came to Christ."

Nonsense. If you trust in Christ, truly, you are saved, and at some point you have been born again.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

To be regenerated is to possess and have new nature/Spirit of Christ in you, how can one do that apart from "being saved?"

They can't. That's the point.

 

[salzer mtn]

A person who is truly trusting in the Lord Jesus Christ, has been born again at some point. Nothing in scripture that talks about us pointing to some "moment." Its almost idolatry in the local church...a new kind of works righteousness. "You must have faith in Christ, AND be able to remember when you first came to Christ."

Nonsense. If you trust in Christ, truly, you are saved, and at some point you have been born again.

When a man say's I'm trusting in Christ or I believe in Jesus, this tells me nothing. What man believes about God, Christ and man will tell me everything.

 

[righteousdude2]

.........

When a man say's I'm trusting in Christ or I believe in Jesus, this tells me nothing. What man believes about God, Christ and man will tell me everything.

........HUH?:flower:

 

[Van]

No one who is unregenerated can genuinely call himself a sinner.

No one was "regenerated or made alive" before Christ died on the cross. Everyone follows Christ in the regeneration, no one was regenerated before Him. Therefore unregenerates can call themselves sinners, such as the tax collector.

How are we regenerated or made alive? We are spiritually put in Christ so that together with Christ we are made alive. No one was put in Christ that was not baptized spiritually into His death. Thus before Christ died, no one was baptized spiritually into Christ and Christ's death. Its a lock.

 

[Yeshua1]

No one was "regenerated or made alive" before Christ died on the cross. Everyone follows Christ in the regeneration, no one was regenerated before Him. Therefore unregenerates can call themselves sinners, such as the tax collector.

How are we regenerated or made alive? We are spiritually put in Christ so that together with Christ we are made alive. No one was put in Christ that was not baptized spiritually into His death. Thus before Christ died, no one was baptized spiritually into Christ and Christ's death. Its a lock.

Well, you just sent Abraham/Moses/david/Joshua all to hell, for one MUST be regenerated to be saved by God, and to have the Cross save him!

 

[Yeshua1]

A person who is truly trusting in the Lord Jesus Christ, has been born again at some point. Nothing in scripture that talks about us pointing to some "moment." Its almost idolatry in the local church...a new kind of works righteousness. "You must have faith in Christ, AND be able to remember when you first came to Christ."

Nonsense. If you trust in Christ, truly, you are saved, and at some point you have been born again.

what is required is the god knows your spiritual birth date to be saved, not you!

 

[Van]

Well, you just sent Abraham/Moses/david/Joshua all to hell, for one MUST be regenerated to be saved by God, and to have the Cross save him!

No, that is not what the Bible teaches. Where did those who obtained approval through faith go under the Old Covenant? To Abraham's bosom. They waited in comfort until Christ, subsequent to His crucification, took them to heaven. Thus each of them was regenerated after Christ died, not before.

Under the New Covenant, we are set apart in Christ (baptized into Christ's death and arise a new creation, born from above)and when we arise, we are alive, regenerated, justified, saved, redeemed and glorified spiritually.

 

[salzer mtn]

No, that is not what the Bible teaches. Where did those who obtained approval through faith go under the Old Covenant? To Abraham's bosom. They waited in comfort until Christ, subsequent to His crucification, took them to heaven. Thus each of them was regenerated after Christ died, not before.

Under the New Covenant, we are set apart in Christ (baptized into Christ's death and arise a new creation, born from above)and when we arise, we are alive, regenerated, justified, saved, redeemed and glorified spiritually.

Moses and Elijah met with Christ on the Mount , they were not in Abraham's bosom.

 

[Van]

No, they were not in Abraham's bosom when present for the transfiguration, but from where did they come and where did they go?
Not to heaven, because Jesus said no one had ascended to heaven. My answer is Abraham's bosom.

 

[salzer mtn]

No, they were not in Abraham's bosom when present for the transfiguration, but from where did they come and where did they go?
Not to heaven, because Jesus said no one had ascended to heaven. My answer is Abraham's bosom.

Did Elijah ride that chariot to heaven or Abraham's bosom?

 

[salzer mtn]

11 Kings 2:11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into HEAVEN.

 

[percho]

Did Elijah ride that chariot to heaven or Abraham's bosom?

Wherever he went the King of Judah received a letter from him about 10 years after he had went.

 

[percho]

Well, you just sent Abraham/Moses/david/Joshua all to hell, for one MUST be regenerated to be saved by God, and to have the Cross save him!

and the gates of hell (Hades) shall not prevail against it. (her the church)

When will the saying come to pass, Death is swallowed up in victory. 1 Cor 15:54
When will it be that the gates of Hell, Hades has not prevailed against her?

O death (the gateway to Hades), where thy sting? O Hades (hell), where thy victory? 1 Cor 15:55

 

[DHK]

what is required is the god knows your spiritual birth date to be saved, not you!

Should one be so glib about their salvation? I am sure that God knows the date of my wedding and who I got married to, but so do I!
Should it be any less important when I became a member of the bride of Christ, a child of the king, an heir of God and a joint heir of Christ?
Is it such an uneventful time in your life that you know nothing about it, and simply chalk it up to: "Oh well God knows, and that is good enough."

I suppose it is good enough that God knows if your married or not??

 

[saturneptune]

Should one be so glib about their salvation? I am sure that God knows the date of my wedding and who I got married to, but so do I!
Should it be any less important when I became a member of the bride of Christ, a child of the king, an heir of God and a joint heir of Christ?
Is it such an uneventful time in your life that you know nothing about it, and simply chalk it up to: "Oh well God knows, and that is good enough."

I suppose it is good enough that God knows if your married or not??

I do not think anyone here does not believe there was a point in time of salvation. I would not expect everyone to remember the hour, minute, and second or even exact day. I could tell you my month, day, and year, and around the time the message from the evangelist, through the Holy Spirit let me know I was not saved in no uncertain terms. However, I do not think you can compare that to a marriage date.

That is a far cry from my former denomination where some believed that you just became "aware of your election from eternity past" over a period of time.

 

[righteousdude2]

I believe as you!

Should one be so glib about their salvation? I am sure that God knows the date of my wedding and who I got married to, but so do I!
Should it be any less important when I became a member of the bride of Christ, a child of the king, an heir of God and a joint heir of Christ?
Is it such an uneventful time in your life that you know nothing about it, and simply chalk it up to: "Oh well God knows, and that is good enough."

I suppose it is good enough that God knows if your married or not??

I have always thought this to be true. How could such an eventful moment ... the time and day in your life when sin was forgiven, your name written in the Lamb's Book of Life and eternity with God, granted to you, be so vague an event that it merely slipped your mind?

Still, as others have said, it is not up to us to judge another. God knows the heart of each person, saved or not, and that is where the end of this debate begins!

I know that I will never forget that late afternoon, on Christmas Eve, 1966 ... sitting in my 1964 Plymouth Valient, two-door hard top, with its plush, faux-red leather seats. We were parked alongside the road deep into the San Dimas Canyon. I was not only with the gal who would one day become my wife, but with the younglady who others referred to as a "Holy-roller; and she was bold and brash enough to ask me what it was that allowed me to call myself a Christian. It was this same young lady who explained what it meant to be saved.

Here we were, just finishing the exchanging and unwrapping of our first Christmas gifts [as a couple in love], as we were entertained by nature herself. With the birds singing softly in the trees above us, and ths und and sensation of a light rustling of wind moving the fallen leaves along the hillside to our right, we could hear that ever so slight sound of fresh mountain water rippling over the rocks that made up the beautiful creek bed below!

It is was unforgettable afternoon, because it was the day, I moved from the state of being religious to knowing that I had been saved. It was the day that I knew beyond a doubt that I had found a lifetime relationship with Jesus! And to think it all began so innocently with her questioning my reasons for proclaiming I was a Christian!

Had she not shared, maybe I'd have never heard that message, and for sure, the supernatural calling to the ministry I received later that night may never have happened.

So, for me, YES: the moment I came to Jesus and received him into my heart, will forever be etched in my life and upon my heart. It's as if it were yesterday! And I've never looked back in regret for what I gave up could never compare to what I gained! Praise hid everlasting, awesome name!

 

[salzer mtn]

I have always thought this to be true. How could such an eventful moment ... the time and day in your life when sin was forgiven, your name written in the Lamb's Book of Life and eternity with God, granted to you, be so vague an event that it merely slipped your mind?

Still, as others have said, it is not up to us to judge another. God knows the heart of each person, saved or not, and that is where the end of this debate begins!

I know that I will never forget that late afternoon, on Christmas Eve, 1966 ... sitting in my 1964 Plymouth Valient, two-door hard top, with its plush, faux-red leather seats. We were parked alongside the road deep into the San Dimas Canyon. I was not only with the gal who would one day become my wife, but with the younglady who others referred to as a "Holy-roller; and she was bold and brash enough to ask me what it was that allowed me to call myself a Christian. It was this same young lady who explained what it meant to be saved.

Here we were, just finishing the exchanging and unwrapping of our first Christmas gifts [as a couple in love], as we were entertained by nature herself. With the birds singing softly in the trees above us, and ths und and sensation of a light rustling of wind moving the fallen leaves along the hillside to our right, we could hear that ever so slight sound of fresh mountain water rippling over the rocks that made up the beautiful creek bed below!

It is was unforgettable afternoon, because it was the day, I moved from the state of being religious to knowing that I had been saved. It was the day that I knew beyond a doubt that I had found a lifetime relationship with Jesus! And to think it all began so innocently with her questioning my reasons for proclaiming I was a Christian!

Had she not shared, maybe I'd have never heard that message, and for sure, the supernatural calling to the ministry I received later that night may never have happened.

So, for me, YES: the moment I came to Jesus and received him into my heart, will forever be etched in my life and upon my heart. It's as if it were yesterday! And I've never looked back in regret for what I gave up could never compare to what I gained! Praise hid everlasting, awesome name!

...HUH ? :flower: