Does anyone really believe Catholics are Christians?

[john6:63]

Originally posted by dcorbett:
The Pope that just died wanted to elevate Mary
to the status of Co-Redemptrix...did you all happen to think of that? I don't believe someone can be saved if they think of anyone else except Jesus Christ as Saviour and have knowledge of sins forgiven, both past and future.
We are saved by grace, remember?

If you go to confession, you couldn't be saved.

The whole Mary issue is my biggest concern when it comes to the Catholic Church and more study of the Catholic view is something I haven’t gotten around to, but I will say this; Protestants tend to forget what kind of role Mary did play. Remember the angle in Luke did say to Mary that she was blessed among women and that she was highly favored. Therefore I do believe that we take too much away from Mary to disassociate ourselves from the Catholics.

Concerning confession, Jesus in John chapter 20:21-23 did give His disciples the authority to forgive sins, meaning IMO, they had to hear a confession in order to forgive these sins.

I confess any wrong doings to my wife and she does remind me that Christ is faithful and will forgive me, although her forgiving me is another story…lol. So I don’t have a problem with Catholics going to a Priest and confessing sins and the Priest reminding him or her that Christ is faithful and will forgive them of their sins. It isn’t the Priest that forgives, it Christ and what He did for us on the cross. Furthermore confessing to someone, IMO, means you are more serious about turning from that sin.

 

[dcorbett]

Nope, Catholics believe that the priest doles out the punishment. So you are so wrong.

 

[john6:63]

Originally posted by dcorbett:
Nope, Catholics believe that the priest doles out the punishment. So you are so wrong.

Your answer was quite vague, so I have to assume you are referring to “penance” in regards to confession. Well maybe certain Priests take advantage of this Sacrament, but the majority of Catholics I know who do go to confession walk away with a penance of increasing their prayer life and increased bible reading, fasting or giving of alms.

Have you ever been to a counsel session with your Pastor? Everyone has and when I go to see my Pastor it winds up a confession anyway and he advises and counsels me and gives me some suggestions how I can improve my spiritual walk. He asks me how’s my prayer life, my daily devotions and my tithing and if I am lacking in any of those areas he tells me to increase those areas.

Now what is the difference of me going to my Pastor for counsel and my Catholic buddy going to his Priest? We both walk away with the same type of “penance”. I hardly call that punishment.

 

[Gold Dragon]

Originally posted by dcorbett:
The Pope that just died wanted to elevate Mary
to the status of Co-Redemptrix...did you all happen to think of that?

Actually, it was the Pope that kept the title of Co-Redemptrix from being official Catholic doctrine because he knew it would offend the sensibilities of Protestants/Baptists.

 

[Bro. James]

Officio or ex-officio, the whole Pontificus Maximus system is still corrupted-- from its birth-circa A.D. 325--Emperor Constantine birthed it--it still survives.

"Come out from among them, saith The Lord, and touch not the unclean thing."

Selah,

Bro. James

 

[dcorbett]

"Bless me, Father, for I have sinned" is not what I say to my Pastor....only GOD can forgive sins, and ALL our sins were dealt with at Calvary. The veil of the temple was split in half
signifying that we could go directly to God with our prayer and supplications instead of through a priest.

Catholicism is full of ritualist meaningless
ceremonies and false teachings.

 

[Magnetic Poles]

The practices and many non-essentials are much different in the RCC than in Evangelical Christianity, but if they believe in Christ crucified and risen, looking to him for their ultimate salvation, I would have to say they are Christian.

 

[Soulman]

Posted by John 6:63: This got me to really thinking, “Why can’t anyone give me THEIR view of chapter 6?” Why does two educated Pastors (Bob Jones and Pensacola), have to go to David Hunt to give me an answer!

Here is my humble opinion of John 6: Matthew 4:4
But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. The Word of God is the bread and spiritual nourishment we need for healthy spirituality as well as having Jesus as the source of all life. It is not literal bread as far as I can see.


How much other CRAP have I been feed: KJVO, all women should wear dresses, you gotta knock on them doors every Saturday to get on God’s good side and I could go on and on…

No one ever said to get on God's good side you have to wear dresses or knock doors. Christian ladies wear dresses because they wish to wear their best for God. It is a choice and NOT a biblical mandate. We knock doors because people are dying and going to hell. We do it to spread the gospel as well as other ways. We don't work to get to heaven. We work because we are going to heaven.

Get our motives straight before criticizing.

Posted by Gold Dragon: Actually, it was the Pope that kept the title of Co-Redemptrix from being official Catholic doctrine because he knew it would offend the sensibilities of Protestants/Baptists.

If that was his reason, beleive me. We take no offence. We realize it is a lie out of the pit of hell. If you don't want to end up in hell would be a better reason. Your false prophet the pope as good of a man as you say him to be, has led millions to hell and has joined them there. Mary helped alot didn't she?

 

[Gold Dragon]

Originally posted by Soulman:
Posted by Gold Dragon: Actually, it was the Pope that kept the title of Co-Redemptrix from being official Catholic doctrine because he knew it would offend the sensibilities of Protestants/Baptists.

If that was his reason, beleive me. We take no offence. We realize it is a lie out of the pit of hell. If you don't want to end up in hell would be a better reason. Your false prophet the pope as good of a man as you say him to be, has led millions to hell and has joined them there. Mary helped alot didn't she?

I should correct myself. I made it appear that the offense of Protestants/Baptists were the primary reason for Pope JPII from making the Co-redemptrix title official.

A more accurate statement would be concerns about offending first of all Catholics who take offense to that title, secondly Orthodox and Anglicans who take offense to that title and finally Protestants/Baptists who take offense to that title.

 

[Soulman]

Posted by Gold Dragon: A more accurate statement would be concerns about offending first of all Catholics who take offense to that title, secondly Orthodox and Anglicans who take offense to that title and finally Protestants/Baptists who take offense to that title.

Actually it would be any bible believing christian. The rest are blind and would just add it to their current state of confusion and blindness.

Catholics need to read their bibles prayerfully. They must come to Jesus in order to gain understanding of the scriptures. Once a child of God, He will lead them in the way everlasting. God will lead them out of catholicisim.

To say catholics are saved is a GIANT leap. Mabey some spiritual infants that haven't yet been fed enough. But christians as practising catholics is like oil and water. They don't mix.

 

[AVL1984]

I know many Catholics who can give clear testimony of salvation, who aren't into Mary or "saint" worship, etc. Why they are staying in the catholic church I will never understand, but I do believe that there are many that are saved. I've seen many who live more Godly lives than many IFB or SBC christians.

 

[David J]

Yes there are saved Catholics. If their faith is in Christ then they are saved. You must be clear when asking a Catholic about salvation.

 

[AVL1984]

This is true. Their terminology, like that of the Mormons, is very close to that of Christianity. There has to be a set of ground rules on symantics before a firm testimony can be derived from a conversation with them. Many think it's the sacriments. My step uncle doesn't believe this. But, he believes God has called him to stay there to witness to others, including the priests. He doesn't go to confession. He confesses to God. His trust is in the death, burial and ressurection of Jesus Christ. You won't find any crucifixes in his home, nor will you find a rosary. You will find a strong marriage between a Missionary Baptist (my aunt) and him, and great testimonies from both.

 

[Soulman]

Catholics are not christians. To say they can be saved in the catholic church is erroneous. First you must come to Christ as a sinner plus nothing. No works, baptisim etc. You must come to the correct Christ which is not present in the catholic church.

It's like saying I can be a mormon and be saved. Their Christ is brother to Lucifer and an angel. Praying to that christ as a repentant sinner gets you nothing.

Posted by AVL1984: My step uncle doesn't believe this. But, he believes God has called him to stay there to witness to others, including the priests.

Corinthians 6:17
Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.

God shows all men the truth if they want it. You must seek God to find Him

Luke 20:46
Beware of the scribes, which desire to walk in long robes, and love greetings in the markets, and the highest seats in the synagogues, and the chief rooms at feasts;

The above verse is what the false catholic priests enjoy today.

Baltimore Catechism Part 2 Lesson 24 266.: Q. How is the Mass the same sacrifice as that of the
Cross?

A. The Mass is the same sacrifice as that of the Cross because the
offering and the priest are the same-Christ our Blessed Lord; and the ends for
which the sacrifice of the Mass is offered are the same as those of the
sacrifice of the Cross.

The bible says there is no more sacrifice for sin! Heb.10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Heb.10:11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

There are no real priests in the world today.

Heb. 7:22-24 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.

23And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death:

24But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.

Heb.5:6 As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

The reason the catholics ordain priests is to replace the ones that die. Christ continues as our high priest forever because he won't die. A priests function is to make sacrifice for sin. There is no more sacrifice for sin. Jesus paid it all. Since he will not die and there is no more sacrifice for sin, there is no more priesthood other than Christ.

The christ the catholic priests pray to is a christ continually sacrificed. And anyone who sits under this false christ no matter how fervent their prayers, cannot be saved.

Romans 10:2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

If they are, they are COMMANDED to leave. God will make His salvation available to all that truly seek Him!

 

[AVL1984]

Soulman, I can't say where God sent my step uncle. If he believes God has called him to have the RCC as his mission, then that's not my call. I don't answer for his decision. I know he goes to mass, but I know he also goes to the church where my aunt goes as well. I don't believe (if I recall correctly) that he takes the sacraments from the RCC. If you read my post, he doesn't confess to the "priests" either. So, why the long rant? I think his arguments from scripture are pretty well founded....

 

[Soulman]

Posted by AVL1984: So, why the long rant?

Sorry if it seemed that way. But you said: Why they are staying in the catholic church I will never understand, but I do believe that there are many that are saved.

I am only saying that there are alot of folks these days thinking you can be a christian and catholic simultaneously. I don't believe that because the catholic church is under the lordship of Satan himself. By it's very design it is to keep people out of heaven. So by believing a catholic to be christian is simply another deception.

As far as your uncle is concerned, if he is saved, he obviously doesn't understand the mass or he wouldn't go to it. The bible teaches we cannot serve two masters. As the Lord teaches him I am sure he will come around.

 

[AVL1984]

Oh, I'm pretty sure he understands the mass as well as he understands the Baptist Church. As stated, he is working with the catholics as his mission. No one is saying he is serving two masters. By openly NOT taking the sacraments nor confessing to a priest, he is showing dissent. Many have asked him about it and it opens the door to witness.

I was speaking of the others in general, not my uncle when stating that I would never understand why they stay in the catholic church. Most still hold to the practices & traditions of the RCC and that is truly a shame.

 

[gb93433]

Originally posted by Soulman:
Catholics are not christians.

It's like saying I can be a mormon and be saved. Their Christ is brother to Lucifer and an angel. Praying to that christ as a repentant sinner gets you nothing.

Got great news for you. The first person I ever heard share about Christ was a young lady in my high school class who was a Catholic while the other fundamental Baptists stood by and watched.
Catholics are saved just like any other Baptist. Not all Baptists are saved. In the average Baptist church only ten percent have ever led anyone to Christ in their entire lifetime. Call that the fruit of salvation. I am convinced that so many have come forward and been dunked and got wet but have never experienced a real salvation expereince partly because of the disoebedient who do not obey Mt. 28:19, 20 and follow up the new believers other than to give them intellectual pablum.

So are you saying God in his sovereignty cannot save anyone from where they are?

 

[Soulman]

Posted by gb93433: Catholics are saved just like any other Baptist.

What? If that is what you choose to beleive then go for it my friend. It's America after all.

I will grant you that many professions in baptist churches may not be legitemate. But you or I cannot say how many are or are not. I was saved on a Wednesday night service 35 years ago during an invitation. A person has a better chance of being saved listening to the plan of salvation than listening to catholic hogwash.

I will grant you that most of the churches I have seen do a poor job of following up. That's sad.

Posted by gb93433:So are you saying God in his sovereignty cannot save anyone from where they are?

Not at all. If you have read any of my other posts you would see that I believe God will exhort the new Christian to leave catholicisim after they receive the truth of His word. The truth does set us free, does it not?

 

[Soulman]

bump