Does Free Will Limit God?

[Van]

You still dont get it. Yet that scripture makes it plain as day.

Begging the lost to be reconciled to God is a ministry to those already reconciled? Nonsense

Since how far before the time of Paul's writings is not specified this addition is offered, "they were reconciled when Christ died." Of course this ignores that we have the ministry of reconciliation, where we beg the lost to be reconciled to God. Nope, take all those verses out of your bible, everyone was reconciled when He died and no opportunity for reconciliation exists. The opportunity to "receive" the reconciliation is denied by this bogus doctrine from the dark ages.







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[Charlie24]

I’ve never read Calvin, so I can’t really call myself a Calvinist. I’ve looked over John Gill’s commentary to help shed light on some difficult passages. I’ve also found Ryrie and Wiersbe to be very helpful as well, though I’m not a dispensationalist.

We're opposites, I'm a dispensationalist. That's ok, when you cut through the doctrines we both stand by grace through faith in our Savior.

You can be wrong on all the doctrines but if you get Jesus Christ right you've won the victory in Him.

 

[Silverhair]

Have you studied that to get a proper understanding ? In which way did they limit the Holy One of Israel ?

They limited God not in fact but by questioning His ability to provide for them.

Psa 78:17 But they sinned even more against Him By rebelling against the Most High in the wilderness.
Psa 78:18 And they tested God in their heart By asking for the food of their fancy.
Psa 78:19 Yes, they spoke against God: They said, "Can God prepare a table in the wilderness?
Psa 78:20 Behold, He struck the rock, So that the waters gushed out, And the streams overflowed. Can He give bread also? Can He provide meat for His people?"said, "Can God prepare a table in the wilderness?

 

[Brightfame52]

So you have them spiritually alive/saved before they believe BF.

BF vs 4-5 is telling us what those that are saved are predestined for, vs 13-14 tells us how we can become one of the saved ones.

Cant you read the sequence ? Eph 2:5

Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

You are saved by Grace b4 they hear, believe, trust in Vs 13

 

[Brightfame52]

Begging the lost to be reconciled to God is a ministry to those already reconciled? Nonsense

Since how far before the time of Paul's writings is not specified this addition is offered, "they were reconciled when Christ died." Of course this ignores that we have the ministry of reconciliation, where we beg the lost to be reconciled to God. Nope, take all those verses out of your bible, everyone was reconciled when He died and no opportunity for reconciliation exists. The opportunity to "receive" the reconciliation is denied by this bogus doctrine from the dark ages.







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The word of reconciliation is specifically to the reconciled, the saved 2 Cor 2:18-20

18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

They know God hasn't imputed their sins to them.

The word of reconciliation isnt for lost people in their sins

So you been witnessing lies and believing lies friend

 

[Brightfame52]

They limited God not in fact but by questioning His ability to provide for them.

Psa 78:17 But they sinned even more against Him By rebelling against the Most High in the wilderness.
Psa 78:18 And they tested God in their heart By asking for the food of their fancy.
Psa 78:19 Yes, they spoke against God: They said, "Can God prepare a table in the wilderness?
Psa 78:20 Behold, He struck the rock, So that the waters gushed out, And the streams overflowed. Can He give bread also? Can He provide meat for His people?"said, "Can God prepare a table in the wilderness?

Cant nobody limit God, nothing but a fool would think that. Dan 4:35

35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

How can a nothing limit God

 

[Silverhair]

The word of reconciliation is specifically to the reconciled, the saved 2 Cor 2:18-20

18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

They know God hasn't imputed their sins to them.

The word of reconciliation isnt for lost people in their sins

So you been witnessing lies and believing lies friend

The word of reconciliation isnt for lost people in their sins.

BF how do you come up with these odd bits of logic?

2Co 5:19 that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

vs 19 clearly says just the opposite of what you are claiming.

 

[Brightfame52]

The word of reconciliation isnt for lost people in their sins.

BF how do you come up with these odd bits of logic?

2Co 5:19 that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

vs 19 clearly says just the opposite of what you are claiming.

Its crystal clear the imperative in Vs 20 is to the already reconciled of vs 18-19 in fact i could argue its to the new creature of Vs 17 as well

It has nothing to do with the perishing condemned world

 

[Van]

The word of reconciliation is specifically to the reconciled, the saved 2 Cor 2:18-20

18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

They know God hasn't imputed their sins to them.

The word of reconciliation isnt for lost people in their sins

So you been witnessing lies and believing lies friend

On and on, nonsense followed by absurdity, one false claim after another.

Did the poster even address "receiving" the reconciliation well after Christ died? Nope.

All they do is ignore scripture and post non-germane verses as if they supported their fiction.

And never mind the false and absurd claim "reconciliation" is used as a verb indicating someone has been reconciled. Once a person goes that far around the bend, literally nothing can be said.

 

[Silverhair]

Cant nobody limit God, nothing but a fool would think that. Dan 4:35

35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

How can a nothing limit God

BF did you actually read what I posted? I doubt that you did.

QUOTE They limited God not in fact but by questioning His ability to provide for them.

That is just what the biblical text says BF. And note it is the KJV & NKJV that use the word "limit".

A better choice for H8428

And painedH8428 the HolyH6918 OneH6918 of IsraelH3478 NASB
and pained the Holy One of Israel. UASV
and provoked the Holy One of Israel. NRSV
and provoked the Holy One of Israel. NLT
and provoked the Holy One of Israel. BSB
and offended the Holy One of Israel. NET

Note it is only the KJV & NKJV that use "limit"
and limited the Holy One of Israel. KJV
And limited H8428 (H8689) the Holy One H6918 of Israel H3478. NKJV

H8428
1. (Hiphil) to pain, wound, trouble, cause pain

We can always count on you BF to come up with questionable off the wall responses.

 

[Ben1445]

I dont believe a spiritually dead person can perform any spiritual obedience. Spiritual obedience is generated by the Spirit 1 Pet 1:2

2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Spiritual obedience comes from a sanctified heart

That is your belief.
I don’t believe that the unsaved are elect, sanctified, or related to God. I see in Scripture that God commending His love to mankind is enough to wake the dead. When Lazarus was raised he didn’t require a medical jumpstart or any other form of pre-awakening. When God made man the first time He made him with His Word. When God gave Adam Spiritual life, He did it with His Word. God’s Word is all that is necessary to revive a sinner. God’s Word came to man, John 1, and needs only to be received. That we have to be made spiritually alive before we can be saved from sin is antithetical to the understanding that we are dead in sin. We cannot be regenerated and not be saved.
If God can take dirt and make man a living soul, He can take spiritually dead people who are physically alive and able to do right and wrong and still have knowledge of good and knowledge of evil, and make these bones live. It happens with the Word of God. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.
This is what I see in Scripture and it is my belief.
Peter is not preaching to the unsaved.
At no point in Scripture are the unsaved ever referred to as being elected to salvation.
Free will is what Adam had when God told Him not to eat from the tree. That somehow God determined (decided or caused) that Adam would sin when God told him not to is to make God the first, second, third, fourth, or any number of things that you want to put between it doesn’t matter, it makes God the cause of sin. God doesn’t tempt man. God is not the author of confusion. Making men sin by telling them not to is confusion. If there is no free will, God is responsible for sin. God didn’t put the tree in the garden to tempt man. Man sinned of his own free will.

 

[Silverhair]

That is your belief.
I don’t believe that the unsaved are elect, sanctified, or related to God. I see in Scripture that God commending His love to mankind is enough to wake the dead. When Lazarus was raised he didn’t require a medical jumpstart or any other form of pre-awakening. When God made man the first time He made him with His Word. When God gave Adam Spiritual life, He did it with His Word. God’s Word is all that is necessary to revive a sinner. God’s Word came to man, John 1, and needs only to be received. That we have to be made spiritually alive before we can be saved from sin is antithetical to the understanding that we are dead in sin. We cannot be regenerated and not be saved.
If God can take dirt and make man a living soul, He can take spiritually dead people who are physically alive and able to do right and wrong and still have knowledge of good and knowledge of evil, and make these bones live. It happens with the Word of God. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.
This is what I see in Scripture and it is my belief.
Peter is not preaching to the unsaved.
At no point in Scripture are the unsaved ever referred to as being elected to salvation.
Free will is what Adam had when God told Him not to eat from the tree. That somehow God determined (decided or caused) that Adam would sin when God told him not to is to make God the first, second, third, fourth, or any number of things that you want to put between it doesn’t matter, it makes God the cause of sin. God doesn’t tempt man. God is not the author of confusion. Making men sin by telling them not to is confusion. If there is no free will, God is responsible for sin. God didn’t put the tree in the garden to tempt man. Man sinned of his own free will.

@Ben1445 Preach it Ben. Tell it6 like it is.

 

[Ben1445]

Cant you read the sequence ? Eph 2:5

Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

You are saved by Grace b4 they hear, believe, trust in Vs 13

You can’t be quickened unless you’re dead. You don’t need salvation unless you’re dead. If you have been “regenerated” so that you can hear the gospel, you are regenerated and not dead.

 

[Ben1445]

Have you studied that to get a proper understanding ? In which way did they limit the Holy One of Israel ?

As stated elsewhere in the thread, they doubted that God could provide for them. You also doubt that He has provided for others. It is fortunate that their salvation is not dependent on your belief for them.

It was plainly said that nothing limits God. Scripture says that Israel did because of their unbelief.
Jesus in the gospels said that he couldn’t do marvelous works for the people because of their unbelief. What more marvelous work does man need than salvation? And who is denied salvation? Unbelievers. They are not upbraided for their lack of being chosen. They are upbraided for their own choice to not believe.

 

[Layman]

Gill is strongly Calvinist and will reinterpret Scripture to fit his Calvinist views. I use Gill quite often. I am not a Calvinist or a Gillinist.

There is no doubt that Gill held to all five points and differed with Calvin on some things. Gill was a credobaptist and a historic premillennialist; Calvin was neither.

 

[Ben1445]

There is no doubt that Gill held to all five points and differed with Calvin on some things. Gill was a credobaptist and a historic premillennialist; Calvin was neither.

I didn’t mean he was a Calvin clone. I have never understood Calvinism to be holding to every doctrine that Calvin ever believed. I don’t know anyone else who has either. I didn’t imply that Gill was a defender of Calvin himself, just the five points that often bear his name.

 

[Salty]

Six hour warning This thread shall be closed no sooner than 2200 (10 pm EDT)

 

[Brightfame52]

On and on, nonsense followed by absurdity, one false claim after another.

Did the poster even address "receiving" the reconciliation well after Christ died? Nope.

All they do is ignore scripture and post non-germane verses as if they supported their fiction.

And never mind the false and absurd claim "reconciliation" is used as a verb indicating someone has been reconciled. Once a person goes that far around the bend, literally nothing can be said.

Its plain as Day Noon that the imperative in 2 Cor 5:20 is addressed to the already reconciled in 2 Cor 5:18-19

 

[Brightfame52]

@Ben1445

That is your belief.

It sure is and its according to scripture that you are ignoring

 

[Brightfame52]

You can’t be quickened unless you’re dead. You don’t need salvation unless you’re dead. If you have been “regenerated” so that you can hear the gospel, you are regenerated and not dead.

You cant do anything of a spiritual nature towards God until you are quickened by Him, made alive. Then we can perform a spiritual activity. Dont you know activity proceeds from having life ? Duh B4 being quickened man is DEAD IN SIN Read Eph 2:5

Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)