Does God always get what he ultimately wants?

[DHK]

There is no intelligent person on earth who could read my posts and doubt my willingness to be forthcoming concerning my beliefs.

There is nothing hidden.

But nice deflection.

Any intelligent person can see that Skandelon has been VOCIFEROUSLY deflecting to avoid admitting that he believes that God purposed in eternity past every soul that would ever go to hell to go there.

I don't agree with you because I am not a Calvinist.
I fail to see how you can interpret such Scriptures as:

God is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. (I know we have dealt with this before).
--This is God's stated will. He states that his will is that none should perish. You might say that he stated that in eternity past. It was his will from creation before Adam sinned. It was never his will that Adam sinned. So did God get his way? No. It was not his will that sin enter the world.

Did he allow it? Yes, he allowed it. It was his will. But he allowed it to happen. It is still his will that all men should come to repentance, but mankind has an evil nature, and will, because of that depraved nature, reject God. But that is not God's will. That is the outworking of sin entering into this world, a result of the Fall combined with the free will that God in his sovereignty has given to man.

That will is also stated in 1 Tim.2:4

Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. (1 Timothy 2:4)
--God's will is that all men will be saved.
But that will, will not be accomplished due to the depravity of man's heart.
Does that mean God fails? By no means! It means that God allows sin to take its course. He knows the end from the beginning. He knew what would happen. But he still does not delight in the death of the wicked. He is not willing that any should perish.

 

[Luke2427]

Oh, good, you agree with Edwards when he says, "God has established a world in which sin will indeed necessarily come to pass by God's permission, but not by his 'positive agency." So it should be easy for you to list something that fit under this description.

Yes, I agree with it whole heartedly. God does NOT bring evil to pass by his positive agency.

I have affirmed this a dozen times.

Luke, please tell us something that "comes to pass by God's permission, but not by his 'positive agency." And then list some things that come to pass by his 'positive agency.' Then help us to understand the difference in how God brought those different things to pass.

We are waiting.

I will be glad to do this for you yet again but I expect you will ignore it as you have numerous times before.

But before I do this which I give you my WORD I will gladly do- you tell us first, WITHOUT deflecting to the subject of permission (on which EVERYONE who is a THEIST agrees!- and is thus POINTLESS to even bring up) whether or not you agree that-

NOTHING HAPPENS APART FROM THE PURPOSES OF GOD and that MAN CANNOT THWART, NOT FOR A MILLISECOND, A SINGLE ONE OF GOD'S ETERNAL PURPOSES, and that EVERYTHING THAT EVER HAPPENS FULFILLS THE ETERNAL PURPOSES OF GOD.

You answer that with a clear YES or NO without spinning and clouding the issue and I will gladly give you the examples you request.

My prediction:

Skandelon will NOT answer this challenge.

No, I am not a prophet nor the son of a prophet but I've seen Skandelon tuck his tail on this before.

 

[Skandelon]

Yes, I agree with it whole heartedly. God does NOT bring evil to pass by his positive agency.

I have affirmed this a dozen times.

Good, so it should be easy to give examples of things God does and does not bring about by his positive agency and then describe the difference in how God brought them to pass.

I will be glad to do this for you yet again but I expect you will ignore it as you have numerous times before.

I challenge you to provide just one link where you have fulfilled this request. Just one.

But before I do this which I give you my WORD I will gladly do- you tell us first, WITHOUT deflecting to the subject of permission (on which EVERYONE who is a THEIST agrees!- and is thus POINTLESS to even bring up) whether or not you agree that-

NOTHING HAPPENS APART FROM THE PURPOSES OF GOD and that MAN CANNOT THWART, NOT FOR A MILLISECOND, A SINGLE ONE OF GOD'S ETERNAL PURPOSES, and that EVERYTHING THAT EVER HAPPENS FULFILLS THE ETERNAL PURPOSES OF GOD.

Yes. (with the understanding of God's purposes including both what he decrees by his positive agency and his permissive will, as explained over and over )

My prediction:

Skandelon will NOT answer this challenge.

No, I am not a prophet nor the son of a prophet but I've seen Skandelon tuck his tail on this before.

This is inflammatory and childish, Luke. I've been your most patient and thorough opponent. And even by your own testimony, one who intelligently represents a historically accepted and known theological position. I don't deserve this kind of treatment. I answer your ambiguous accusations and questions thoroughly and in accordance to very orthodox Arminian scholars. I have never intentionally dodged or ran from one of your arguments. Anyone who has followed along for any length of time can see that clearly. So, lets leave the insults and immaturity at the door and deal with each other like Christian adults, okay?

 

[Skandelon]

BTW, in case you haven't seen it. I started a thread on the specific subject of God's decrees as they relate to the origin of evil... HERE>

 

[Dr. Bob]

Started nowhere. Going nowhere. Arrived.

Closed.