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Does God Choose Man or Man Choose God?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Miss E, Jul 21, 2020.

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  1. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    No need for grace? Well then, in that case there would also be no need for Jesus to atone for our sins. We could simply work to save ourselves.
     
    #21 AustinC, Jul 21, 2020
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  2. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Why would God, choosing to free you and ransom you from your slavery to sin and Satan be an abusive/controlling dictator by choosing to free you? I cannot imagine how you draw such a nonsensical conclusion so please explain this to me.
     
    #22 AustinC, Jul 21, 2020
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  3. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    God allowed and ordained that Yeshua would post, as God did with your post and mine. If God willed to stop you, he would...and you could do nothing about it.
    Yeshua is not wrong. Had God not chose you to believe, you would still be in rebellion.
     
    #23 AustinC, Jul 21, 2020
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  4. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Look at Ephesians 2 .8
    8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
    9Not of works, lest any man should boast.
    Thats grace right there ,clear as day .
    we don't need to add pre or irresistible to it . The bible works without the isms.
     
    #24 Barry Johnson, Jul 21, 2020
  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    he seems to deny that we even need to have the Holy Spirit do anything to us in order for us to get saved!
     
    #25 Yeshua1, Jul 21, 2020
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  6. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    Can you show me a verse where the Holy Spirit does anything the Calvernist claims ? The Holy Spirit Convicts the WORLD of sin ( not random sins but unbelief) righteousness and judgement .
    And the Gospel IS the power of God unto salvation.
    Not to mention what leaves everyone without excuse . Creation and conscience .
    After the cross you dont have a verse that the Father is drawing anyone .
    Jesus is the light .
     
    #26 Barry Johnson, Jul 21, 2020
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  7. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    "that not of yourselves", yep, right there, no human choice...all God.

    Thanks for sharing verses that express God choosing and man doing nothing to attain salvation.
     
    #27 AustinC, Jul 21, 2020
  8. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    You missed out 'through faith ' .And
    rom 5.2
    By whom also we have access BY FAITH into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
     
    #28 Barry Johnson, Jul 21, 2020
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  9. Miss E

    Miss E Active Member

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    How can you not see that that paints God in that way??

    A God that literlaly FORCES HIS WILL UPON YOU THUS MAKING YOU A MINDLESS VOODOO DOLL HE CONTROLS FULLY, is not a God deserving of Worship. We have to make the conscious choice to worship/trust/follow God. That is why He gave every man a free will to do so. You call it being chosen, I call it being forced. Either way you roll it up, it's God making you do something against your will that you have ZERO control over.

    Explain to me why that makes God and Just and Fair God.

    Man choose to love sin, or to love God. Simple as that. God rewards salvation based on our choice. Period.
     
    #29 Miss E, Jul 21, 2020
  10. Miss E

    Miss E Active Member

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    Do you HEAR YOURSELF? You're basically saying God controls all your actions!!!!!!!!!!!!

    How is that RIGHT in ANY SENSE OF THE WORD.

    That's like saying my husband allows me to speak and otherwise I would never speak on my own free will???? That is not love. That is a dictator.
     
    #30 Miss E, Jul 21, 2020
  11. Miss E

    Miss E Active Member

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    Tell me, when we go to heaven, apart from no longer having the ability to sin, will God force us to worship Him or will we freely give Him worship because it will be our desire to since we first chose to love and follow God?
     
    #31 Miss E, Jul 21, 2020
  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    None apart from the will and working of God will ever come to saving faith in Lord Jesus!
     
    #32 Yeshua1, Jul 21, 2020
  13. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Again, how can those lost in sins, enemies of God, and wayward decide now to come back to the God they have despised until n ow?
     
    #33 Yeshua1, Jul 21, 2020
  14. Miss E

    Miss E Active Member

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    AKA God chooses what happens to you, against your will, like a dictator.

    But you don't say it that way, do you?

    Let me ask you something else, when we sin, is that God willing us to sin? Or do we sin on our own?

    And likewise, if we do a good act, is that God making us do the act? Or us ourselves doing the act of kindness?

    Either way, God gets the glory because as the Bible says, all things work together for the good of those who love God, who are called according to His purpose. In God's divine sovereignty, He can make all things work together for our good despite the actions we may make against or aligning to His will.

    Note the words, 'who love God'.
     
    #34 Miss E, Jul 21, 2020
  15. Miss E

    Miss E Active Member

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    Let me ask you this question

    The prodigal son. When he went his own way, that is, lost in his own sin and selfhness. What made him decide to go back to his father?

    Guilt.

    When someone feels the guilt of their sin and realize they are a sinner before almighty God and do not deserve to live, and decide to trust in Jesus as their Lord and give up their lives, THAT is when a person is saved.

    Did the prodigal son make that choice to come back on his own via God forcing him to go back to his father?

    NO.

    So it is with lost sinners, who eventually find the light of Jesus and decide to repent and come to Him.

    Glory to God!!!
     
    #35 Miss E, Jul 21, 2020
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  16. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    he was always the son of the father, so was saved and lost and found again!
     
    #36 Yeshua1, Jul 21, 2020
  17. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Can God do anything that he chooses to do then? Did paul have real free will to tell Jesus no thanks?
     
    #37 Yeshua1, Jul 21, 2020
  18. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    The same way a alcoholic or drug addict can realise he needs help .
     
    #38 Barry Johnson, Jul 21, 2020
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  19. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Different though, as they can choose to get help even if not saved!
     
    #39 Yeshua1, Jul 21, 2020
  20. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Faith is a gift given to those he chooses to save by grace. It is not of ourselves so that we cannot boast.
    God chooses, by his gracious favor, to save us. He gives us the gift of faith. We therefore believe and because of this, we do the works God ordained us to do.
    Read all of Ephesians 2:1-10 so you see the entire progression of what God does, with no assistance from us.
     
    #40 AustinC, Jul 21, 2020
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