Does God Choose Man or Man Choose God?

[Van]

You are correct. Except, the generally revelation of God found in creation has been been rejected by all, SNIP

The doctrine of Total Spiritual Inability is once again shown to be false by Calvinists who say people understood and rejected General Revelation. On and on folks, on and on. Never mind we are without excuse,

For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

 

[canadyjd]

The doctrine of Total Spiritual Inability is once again shown to be false by Calvinists who say people understood and rejected General Revelation. On and on folks, on and on. Never mind we are without excuse,

For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

I really don’t understand the point you are making. Do you believe people can be saved without the gospel, I.e., generally revelation found in creation?

peace to you

 

[Van]

I really don’t understand the point you are making. Do you believe people can be saved without the gospel, I.e., generally revelation found in creation?

peace to you

If anyone believes the Calvinist did not understand, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell. Here is what I said!!!!
The doctrine of Total Spiritual Inability is once again shown to be false by Calvinists who say people understood and rejected General Revelation.

Did I say people can be saved without the gospel? Nope - so deflection on display
Did I say people must have some spiritual ability to discern general revelation? Yes indeed.
Was that addressed? Nope

 

[Miss E]

You are correct. Except, the generally revelation of God found in creation has been been rejected by all, and therefore has saved no one. All have been condemned. Unless you believe people are saved without the gospel. Do you?

So know we consider special revelation. God revealed His Word to you, and you responded with faith.

Please answer this question. What is it about you that God would reveal His Word to you (special revelation) while billions of people live and die without ever hearing the gospel.

Why are you special? Why did God chose to reveal His a word to you?

peace to you

I already told you my answer. God is revealed in His creation, if the men who know in their hearts there is a God and do not seek Him out, then yes, they are lost. And there is NOTHING AT ALL special about me, or anyone else. My faith in Jesus is counted to me as righteousness and God gets all the glory because His mercy saved me because I believed. Simple really.

 

[Yeshua1]

The doctrine of Total Spiritual Inability is once again shown to be false by Calvinists who say people understood and rejected General Revelation. On and on folks, on and on. Never mind we are without excuse,

For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

You keep bashing Tulip, but you do not really understand what it means!

 

[Yeshua1]

I already told you my answer. God is revealed in His creation, if the men who know in their hearts there is a God and do not seek Him out, then yes, they are lost. And there is NOTHING AT ALL special about me, or anyone else. My faith in Jesus is counted to me as righteousness and God gets all the glory because His mercy saved me because I believed. Simple really.

What made you able to believe while others could not?

 

[canadyjd]

I already told you my answer. God is revealed in His creation, if the men who know in their hearts there is a God and do not seek Him out, then yes, they are lost. And there is NOTHING AT ALL special about me, or anyone else. My faith in Jesus is counted to me as righteousness and God gets all the glory because His mercy saved me because I believed. Simple really.

So again, why did God chose to show mercy to you and reveal His Word to you, so that you could believe, while billions live and die without God revealing His Word to them?

peace to you

 

[canadyjd]

The doctrine of Total Spiritual Inability is once again shown to be false by Calvinists who say people understood and rejected General Revelation.

Did I say people must have some spiritual ability to discern general revelation? Yes indeed.
Was that addressed? Nope

Well , I didn’t say they understood and rejected general revelation, scripture says all mankind rejected the existence of God, revealed in creation and are without excuse.

Whether or not people need a spiritual ability to understand general revelation is of no consequence, since God has chosen the gospel as the means to bring people to salvation, not general revelation.

peace to you

 

[Van]

You keep bashing Tulip, but you do not really understand what it means!

Utter nonsense posted to hide the truth.

The doctrine of Total Spiritual Inability is once again shown to be false by Calvinists who say people understood and rejected General Revelation. On and on folks, on and on. Never mind we are without excuse,

For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

 

[Derf B]

TULIP is the most useless doctrine there is.

If God is going to save someone, He will do it despite the person’s will.

If God is not going to save someone, no amount of pleading will change His mind.

So what are we supposed to do about our salvation? NOTHING. You can’t even work out your salvation in fear and trembling.

Tell me how one is supposed to react to the gospel? No matter which side of election we might find ourselves, the thing we should do is “believe”. And if we believe, we are counted among the elect. So the TULIP proponent still has to offer the gospel to the elect and non elect in the same way as those who deny TULIP. It’s a useless doctrine, which only generates strife between believers.

 

[Van]

Well , I didn’t say they understood and rejected general revelation, scripture says all mankind rejected the existence of God, revealed in creation and are without excuse.

Whether or not people need a spiritual ability to understand general revelation is of no consequence, since God has chosen the gospel as the means to bring people to salvation, not general revelation.

peace to you

Calvinists assert with their bogus doctrine of total spiritual inability that the fallen cannot discern spiritual things like God's revelation (general or special). It is a false doctrine.

Next note how Total spiritual inability morphs into limited spiritual inability when push comes to shove. Folks, shove it all into the dustbin of bogus doctrine. The people of Matthew 23:13 could not have been entering the kingdom unless they had some spiritual ability, and they could not have been blocked if they were being compelled by irresistible grace. But no matter how many verses I post, their denial will continue unabated.

 

[Van]

And if we believe, we are counted among the elect.

If we believe, as determined by God crediting our faith as righteousness, we are chosen on the basis of that accredited faith and placed (set apart) in Christ, the sanctification by the Spirit.

 

[canadyjd]

Calvinists assert with their bogus doctrine of total spiritual inability that the fallen cannot discern spiritual things like God's revelation (general or special). It is a false doctrine.

Next note how Total spiritual inability morphs into limited spiritual inability when push comes to shove. Folks, shove it all into the dustbin of bogus doctrine. The people of Matthew 23:13 could not have been entering the kingdom unless they had some spiritual ability, and they could not have been blocked if they were being compelled by irresistible grace. But no matter how many verses I post, their denial will continue unabated.

Thanks for the conversation

peace to you

 

[Derf B]

If we believe, as determined by God crediting our faith as righteousness, we are chosen on the basis of that accredited faith and placed (set apart) in Christ, the sanctification by the Spirit.

But you agree that TULIP says we have no control over those things, right?

 

[Miss E]

What made you able to believe while others could not?

Others did not because they CHOSE not to. Obviously.

 

[Miss E]

So again, why did God chose to show mercy to you and reveal His Word to you, so that you could believe, while billions live and die without God revealing His Word to them?

peace to you

Already answered that question, you just chose to ignore it. He shows mercy to those who repent and believe upon His son. Everyone has the chance to. Everyone. Period.

 

[Miss E]

All hail TULIP and our God and Savior Calvin. That's all I hear these people saying. Sigh. I will stand on the Word of God and that is that.

 

[AustinC]

I can't see how you continue to view God in this way. By saying God CHOSE YOU, is the same thing as saying God MADE YOU CHOOSE SALVATION/TO BE SAVED. Ridiculous! That isn't genuine love, genuine love is willingly choosing to give love to someone else.

So you're saying that God chooses some and doesn't choose others, why did he not choose to save the others? What standard does God use to choose someone? Based on what? Their works? Nope. We know we can't do enough good to out weigh the bad. So what? Based on our CHOICE. Other-wise, God makes us do something. if your position were true, God would choose to save everyone, but that can't happen because God is a just and righteous God. He gives man the chance to choose righteousness (to follow His son) or wickedness (to follow themselves)

Please use scripture to back up your claims and I will try my best in God's strength and wisdom to show you that God gives us a choice.

Your conclusions are wrong.
Let's look at the faith of the Centurion to see how Jesus chooses. You tell me if the Centurion had any choice in the matter.

Matthew 8:5-10 When he had entered Capernaum, a centurion came forward to him, appealing to him, “Lord, my servant is lying paralyzed at home, suffering terribly.” And he said to him, “I will come and heal him.” But the centurion replied, “Lord, I am not worthy to have you come under my roof, but only say the word, and my servant will be healed. For I too am a man under authority, with soldiers under me. And I say to one, ‘Go,’ and he goes, and to another, ‘Come,’ and he comes, and to my servant, ‘Do this,’ and he does it.” When Jesus heard this, he marveled and said to those who followed him, “Truly, I tell you, with no one in Israel have I found such faith.
Do you see the authority that God has? If a lowly centurion has authority over a few and directs those under him at his word, how much more so does the King of Creation do as He so chooses?
In reading the gospel of Matthew it is the overarching theme that Jesus is the Sovereign King who decides what he will and will not do in every area of his ministry.

What amazes me is that you are demanding to be the ruler and yelling, nay screaming, in protest that God is a monster if He does not grant you authority to make all your decisions. Frankly, you come across as a toddler having a tantrum if you don't get your way. It is the sign of one who is young in the faith.

Truth be told, when my children were infants I would control them and choose for them all the time. They were infants who had no clue and thus they couldn't choose what was good for them. I had to choose for them and graciously do everything for them.
So it is with us. At the new birth, we were helpless infants. Just as we didn't choose our physical conception, so we didn't choose our spiritual conception. God, the Father, chose for us. God made us alive with Christ. You didn't choose to make yourself alive with Christ. God chose for you.

MissE, the Bible shows you this. Many here have provided passage after passage to point out this truth. At present, you just have a bigger tantrum when no one agrees with your demand. My suggestion is for you to go to your room, take a timeout, and spend time reading God's word with no interference from any other outside voice. Just let God talk to you in His word. He is the only one who can disuade you from your position in which you stand alone.

 

[AustinC]

TULIP is the most useless doctrine there is.

If God is going to save someone, He will do it despite the person’s will.

If God is not going to save someone, no amount of pleading will change His mind.

So what are we supposed to do about our salvation? NOTHING. You can’t even work out your salvation in fear and trembling.

Tell me how one is supposed to react to the gospel? No matter which side of election we might find ourselves, the thing we should do is “believe”. And if we believe, we are counted among the elect. So the TULIP proponent still has to offer the gospel to the elect and non elect in the same way as those who deny TULIP. It’s a useless doctrine, which only generates strife between believers.

So, let's not use it. Let us talk about what the Bible says about the corruption of the human Spirit. Let us talk about the grace God gives to believers. Let us talk about whom Jesus has ransomed. Let us talk about the calling of God and God's authority over man. Let us talk about the sanctification of our being and the process God uses. All these things are in God's word for us to examine. We can toss out acronyms. We don't need the 5 points of the Remonstrants or the 5 counterpoint's of the Calvinists. We just need to see what God declares.

 

[Yeshua1]

Already answered that question, you just chose to ignore it. He shows mercy to those who repent and believe upon His son. Everyone has the chance to. Everyone. Period.

Did God intend the death of Jesus to atone for the sins of all sinners?