Does God have a Mother II

Natters, if all the guys you mentioned go to the hell, will you follow them?

Cease ye from man, whose breath is in his nostrils: for wherein is he to be accounted for ?
( Isaiah 2:22)

 

If everyone here think that we dealt enough, we can focus on Cyrill vs Nestorius. But I personally need some study. It will be intersting.

Bunyon, I am at the other thread" Does God need a mother?"

 

I am reading the articles about the Council of Ephesus and the debate between Cyril and Nestorius. Relatively the literature written by Nestorius seems to be rare since all of them were burnt by his opponents.
I wonder if any of you has ever read the followings:

After 1500 years stigmatized as a heretic, a book written by Nestorius was discovered in 1895, known as the Bazaar of Heracleides, written towards the end of his life, in which he explicitly denies the heresy for which he was condemned, instead, affirming of Christ "the same one is twofold" - an expression that some consider similar to the formulation of the Council of Chalcedon. Nestorius's earlier surviving writings, however, including his letter written in response to Cyril's charges against him, contain material that seems to support charges that he held that Christ had two personhoods. So the question of whether Nestorius was actually a Nestorian is still a matter of debate.

 

You see the expression : twofold which is different 2 persons.

 

"Nestorius was not a Nestorian"

The discovery of The Bazaar, which is the Apologia of Nestorius, was made public by Dr H. Goussen (though members of the Archbishop of Canterburys Mission to the Assyrian Christians had previously been acquainted with the book). The text has been edited by P. Paul Bedjan (Leipzig, 1910) and a French translation has been made by M. labb F. Nau. A representative selection of extracts has been given to English readers in J. F. Bethune-Bakers Nestorius and his Teaching (Cambridge, 1908), chapter ii. of which describes the MS. and its accounts. Much of the argument is thrown into the form of a dialogue between (I) Nestorius amid an imaginary opponent Superianus, (2) Nestorjus and Cyril. The book reveals a strong personality and helps us to know the man and his teaching, even though we have to gather his own views largely from his criticism of his antagonists. He is throughout more concerned for the wrong done to the faith at Ephesus than to himself, saying that if he held the views attributed to hi~n by Cyril he would be the first to condemn himself without mercy. All through the years of conflict he had but one end in view, that no one should call the Word of God a creature, or the Manhood which was assumed incomplete. In his letters to Celestine he had laid stress on the point that the teaching he attacked was derogatory to the Godhead and so he called its champions Arians. If the Godhead of the Son had its origin in the womb of the Virgin it was not Godhead as the Fathers, and He who was born could not be homoousios with God, and that was what the Arians denied Him to be. It is thus increasingly difficult to believe that Nestorius was a Nestorian

 

Qte from D-T
Nestorius's earlier surviving writings, however, including his letter written in response to Cyril's charges against him, contain material that seems to support charges that he held that Christ had two personhoods. So the question of whether Nestorius was actually a Nestorian is still a matter of debate.
UQTE

This is a problem with the method of probe,because the opponents could easily cut out the other parts for their convenience of logic.

We have to have fair wordings too. Two personhood or Twofold of the one person may have been exaggerated. I believe that Nestorius never denied the deity of Jesus and that he never claimed two persons lived in one person Jesus.
He just refused the title " Mother of God" and was excommunicated just because of it and lived poor since then while the merciless, cruel and tricky Cyril lived rich and was canonized as the Holy Bishop.

We have to re-probe the history.

 

BTW the above qte was from http://www.1911encyclopedia.org/N/NE/NESTORIUS.htm, google.

Whether or not Orthodox, I just wanted to clarify the false accusation against a believer who denied the Mother of God hoax, which are held by so-called Human Orthodox.

Natters,

Have you commented on this?

I think I still have to continue to illustrate the silly aspects of syllogism:

1. Jesus is God,
Mary is Mother of Jesus
Therefore Mary is Mother of God.
2. Holy spirit is God,
Mary is Mother of God
Therefore Mary is Mother of Holy Spirit
3. God the Father is God
Mary is Mother of God.
Therefore Mary is Mother of God the Father
4. Jesus was in the womb of Mary
Holy Spirit was not away from Jesus when He was in Mary’s womb.
Therefore Holy Spirit was carried by Mary.
5. Jesus was in the womb of Mary
God the Father was not away from Jesus when He was in Mary’s womb.
Therefore God the Father was in the womb of Mary.
6. Therefore from the above,
Mary was the Mother of God the Father, Mother of God the Son, Mother of God the Holy Spirit.
7. Jesus is Creator
Mary is the Mother of Jesus
Mary is the Mother of Creator of the whole Universe.
8. We have to respect Mother.
Mary is Mother of our God.
We have to respect Mary as Mother of God.
9. The Salvation was made possible just because Mary obeyed God.
Without Mary, there could be no Salvation possible.
Therefore we have to believe that Mary was the Co-Redeemer!
10. Ever-Virgin Mary, Perpetual Virgin Mary, Life time virgin Mary,
So loved the world, that she gave her only begotten Son that whosoever believeth on Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
If anyone denies any of the above mentioned Faith Statements, that person is Heretic! Anathema !
-- A Heretic Comedy by Human Syllogism

 

You desert the same logic-Human Syllogism when you encounter a Paradox with Trinity with that logic.
You use the Syllogism for your convenience and then desert it when you encounter the contradiction, which proves the belief that you have is a paradox.
Don't desert it if it is everlasting truth!

Otherwise, you are Heretic Human Orthodox!

 

Again, you will encounter the contradiction if you apply the same logic which was used in Mother of God theory, to the other Godheads as follows:

2. Holy spirit is God,
Mary is Mother of God
Therefore Mary is Mother of Holy Spirit
3. God the Father is God
Mary is Mother of God.
Therefore Mary is Mother of God the Father

If you deny this you are Heretic!
- a heretic comedy-

If you don't understand, I can accept your ignorance and go to the sub-subject, Cyril vs Nestorius