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Does God have a Mother II

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Eliyahu, Dec 17, 2005.

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  1. Eliyahu

    Eliyahu Active Member
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    As for your question about Lord:
    I told you nobody misunderstand Lord means Pre-existence and Producer. Therefore Mother of Lord doesn't contradict Pre-existence of God.

    I explained you this many times so far. I hope you will not ask me to repeat it. As for your question about Lord:

    I clearly mentioned you that Mother of Lord is OK because it doesnt cause any misunderstanding to the people that Mary pre-existed before God.
     
    #101 Eliyahu, Dec 19, 2005
  2. natters

    natters New Member

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    No, you didn't answer "how". HOW can she be the mother of our Lord, if he was Lord before she existed? HOW can she be the mother of our Lord, if the Father and Holy Spirit are also the Lord, yet there is only one Lord? If she is the "mother of the Lord", and there is only "one Lord", why doesn't that make her mother of the Father and mother of the Holy Spirit, who are the Lord?
     
    #102 natters, Dec 19, 2005
  3. Eliyahu

    Eliyahu Active Member
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    #103 Eliyahu, Dec 19, 2005
  4. Eliyahu

    Eliyahu Active Member
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    Her Maternity has nothing to do with Deity or Divinity and therefore don't talk about Father, Holy Spirit.
    As for Maternity, Mary is only the mother in the sense of humanity of Jesus. Therefore if you attach any deity or divinity to the title of Mary, quickly you are involved in the contradiction with Trinity.

    She is not mother of Holy Spirit. But you are saying Mary is Mother of God and Holy Spirit is God. then how can you deny that Mary is Mother of Holy Spirit? She is not mother of Holy Spirit. But you are saying Mary is Mother of God and Holy Spirit is God. Then how can you stil deny that Mary is Mother of Holy Spirit?
     
    #104 Eliyahu, Dec 19, 2005
  5. natters

    natters New Member

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    Stop sidetracking.

    HOW can she be the mother of our Lord, if he was Lord before she existed?

    HOW can she be the mother of our Lord, if the Father and Holy Spirit are also the Lord, yet there is only one Lord?

    If she is the "mother of the Lord", and there is only "one Lord", why doesn't that make her mother of the Father and mother of the Holy Spirit, who are the Lord?

    Are you really this obtuse??? Ask yourself this, then you'll have the answer: "But yoiu are saying Mary is Mother of Lord and Holy Spirit is Lord. Then how can you still deny that Mary is Mother of Holy Spirit?"
     
    #105 natters, Dec 19, 2005
  6. Eliyahu

    Eliyahu Active Member
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    Because the word "Lord" embraces all the meanings including humanity and any superior human,and so on. If the meaning is ambiguous, we can read and define further. But the word God is different. Itself has the sovereignity above all, without need to define any further.
    You can find your answer from your own eagerness to call Mary as Mother of God, instead of Mother of Lord. You are not satisfied with Mother of Lord because you want to have Mother of God in your heart.
     
    #106 Eliyahu, Dec 19, 2005
  7. natters

    natters New Member

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    HOW can she be the mother of our Lord, if the Father and Holy Spirit are also the Lord, yet there is only one Lord?

    If she is the "mother of the Lord", and there is only "one Lord", why doesn't that make her mother of the Father and mother of the Holy Spirit, who are the Lord?

    You are saying Mary is Mother of Lord and Holy Spirit is Lord. Then how can you still deny that Mary is Mother of Holy Spirit?
     
    #107 natters, Dec 19, 2005
  8. Eliyahu

    Eliyahu Active Member
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    You may be worshiping three- gods because you don't understand the problem!

    I told you Lord doesn't go to the Deity quickly, which is why Bible uses Mother of Lord, instead Mother of God.

    I think I found Lord indicating Holy Spirit nowhere in the Bible. Anyway, Lord doesn't cause the problem with deity but lead the people to think what is the meaning of Lord there, then they can understand Mother of LOrd Jesus.
     
    #108 Eliyahu, Dec 19, 2005
  9. Eliyahu

    Eliyahu Active Member
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    Natters, why are you so much eager to call Mother of God?
    Do you think, if we don't call her Mother of God, will God condemn us for not calling her as Mother of God?
     
    #109 Eliyahu, Dec 19, 2005
  10. natters

    natters New Member

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    We're done. I have to go now and ask Mary into my heart and drink blood and sacrifice children and worship three gods (and their god, Mary) and stick heretics up on pikes and paint pagan symbols on my buttocks and howl at the moon.

    I hope one day you actually try and learn (and accept) what the orthodox view of the Trinity is. Drop me a line if that ever happens.
     
    #110 natters, Dec 19, 2005
  11. Eliyahu

    Eliyahu Active Member
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    1.You may be drinking Blood every week, formulated by Magic Show of Priest's Transubstantiation.

    2. You may be misunderstanding that Mary is accepting your prayer, but she is sleeping. Read the Bible.

    3. You may think Goddess Worshippers are Orthodox, but all the Human Orthodox will be judged by the Words of God and therefore you should remember how much God was indignant against Idol-making, Idol worship, Goddess Worship, etc.

    4. One good points from you is that you are quite patient to keep your false religion. Now it is time for you to think what you believe is wrong or right according to Bible.

    We are not insisting that what the Bible says should not be called, but what the Bible doesn't call and contradict to the Sovereignty of God should not be called.
     
    #111 Eliyahu, Dec 20, 2005
  12. Ransom

    Ransom Active Member

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    DHK said:

    The logic of the syllogism stops here. The conclusion is wrong. Mary was a vessel used one time in history to conceive the body of Jesus. Her womb provided the entrance for God the Son to make an entrance into this world, nothing more.

    A womb is the usual entrance for someone to come into the world. What do we call the owner of that womb? A mother [​IMG]

    She is a mere mortal, used of God,

    No one has claimed otherwise. [​IMG]

    The Word was made flesh. Christ was not a descendent of Mary.

    How can Jesus be a son of David according to the flesh (Rom. 1:3), if he is not descended from David through his own mother?

    If Jesus of Nazareth was not a physical descendant of David, then he had no rightful claim to be the Messiah, and we worship a fraud.

    Mary was not the mother of Christ--the one who is fully God and full man at the same time. She bore his body.

    Nestorius lives!
     
    #112 Ransom, Dec 20, 2005
  13. Ransom

    Ransom Active Member

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    DHK said:

    Hebrews 7:3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.

    This verse is not talking about Jesus, but Melchizedek, who is a type of the Messiah, because his lack of recorded genealogy symbolizes God the Son's eternality.

    It is most emphatically not saying that Jesus Christ had no genealogy. That would be foolish, since Scripture itself tells us what that genealogy is.

     
    #113 Ransom, Dec 20, 2005
  14. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    I'm amazed at the nestorian and semi-docetic views expressed here. Jesus was not some kind of spirit that magically appeared in Mary's womb as a human with no connection to her genes. He partook of Mary's seed and was a physical descendant of David, as the Bible clearly states.

    Ransom, you're right on with scripture. [​IMG]
     
    #114 Marcia, Dec 20, 2005
  15. Eliyahu

    Eliyahu Active Member
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    Human Orthodox and Human Syllogism are judged here and will be judged and condemned severly by God. Nestorius turned out not a Nestorian as Cyril accused wrongly.
    Everything was already answered and the Bible is the powerful tool to judge the beliefs.

    Why does Heb 7:3 deny that Son of God has Mother and Descent?

    One thing which may have not been answered to Natters is the question about why Mother of Lord is allowed in the Bible while Mother of God is nowhere?

    Mother has the meaning of Pre-Existence and Produce.

    The most important natures of God are Pre-Existence and Creation.

    But the Lord doesn't have such meanings as Pre-Existence and Creation, but rather used for the Master-Servant, Owner, King, or any Superior person. We can see it from 1 Pet 3:6 saying Sarah called Abraham Lord.

    There is no contradiction if we call Mary Mother of Lord. No one questions it doesn't mean that Mother of Holy Spirit.

    But in case of Mother of God, by the same logic, it can mean Mother of Holy Spirit, Mother of God the Father. If anyone denies it, she or he is denying Trinity! Anathema! Even the Son of God
    has no Mother, Bible says so.
    History proves Theotokos quickly led to Mary Worship.

    Therefore we should avoid Therotokos, Mother of God. If anyone insist on it, she or he is denying Trinity, Anathema! Heretic!
     
    #115 Eliyahu, Dec 20, 2005
  16. Eliyahu

    Eliyahu Active Member
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    How can Jesus be a son of David, if He was born already in the womb of Mary, before He came out of Mary? Read Mt. 1:20 in the original language Greek. The one in her is born by Holy Spirit.

    The one in her is born by Holy Spirit.

    Mt 1:20

    Can anyone be not the descendant if He is born by a surrogate mother?
    Seed doesn't mean the biological relations all the time.
     
    #116 Eliyahu, Dec 20, 2005
  17. Eliyahu

    Eliyahu Active Member
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    [/QUOTE]


    Could you not find the Son of God, in the sentence of Heb 7:3?
    Are you denying that Son of God is Jesus?
    Doesn't it say that Melchisedec is similar to Son of God, in the aspect of No Mother, No genealogy?

    Luke is just saying about the human genealogy for the surrogate mother or stepfather.

    Gal 4:4 God sent forth His Son, made of Woman.
    Did His Son exist before Mary?
    Did His Son become another Son by coming out of Mary?
    What did Mary do for His Son who existed before already?

    Luke 1:48 Mary calls herself His Handmaid!

    Mary doesn't call herself Mother of God.
    Nobody in the Bible calls Mary Mother of God.
    It contradicts Trinity because:
    If she is mother of God,
    then she should be Mother of Holy Spirit, because Holy Spirit is God.
    If Mary is Mother of God, she should be Mother of God the Father, because God the Father is God.
    If anyone denies that God the Father is God, then she or he is heretic! Anathema!

    The whole theory of Mother of God is strawman's theory based on Human Syllogism, heretic comedy!
    Anathema!
     
    #117 Eliyahu, Dec 21, 2005
  18. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Exactly. If I adopted a son, he would carry on my name.
     
    #118 webdog, Dec 21, 2005
  19. Ransom

    Ransom Active Member

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    Eliyahu said:

    Why does Heb 7:3 deny that Son of God has Mother and Descent?

    Once again, for the intentionally hard of hearing: It doesn't. Next!
     
    #119 Ransom, Dec 21, 2005
  20. Ransom

    Ransom Active Member

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    Eliyahu said:

    Could you not find the Son of God, in the sentence of Heb 7:3?

    Yes, I can. It says that Melchizedek is like the Son of God, and I have already explained what the author meant by that. Take it or leave it.

    Are you denying that Son of God is Jesus?

    Where did you get this nonsense from?

    Doesn't it say that Melchisedec is similar to Son of God, in the aspect of No Mother, No genealogy?

    I already answered that question.

    Luke is just saying about the human genealogy for the surrogate mother or stepfather.

    Hogwash.

    Gal 4:4 God sent forth His Son, made of Woman.
    Did His Son exist before Mary?

    Once again, for the habitually deaf: Yes, the Son of God was eternal, but the incarnated Christ, the Man Jesus of Nazareth, did not exist until he was formed in Mary's womb. This has been stated repeatedly. Why do you keep ignoring it?

    Did His Son become another Son by coming out of Mary?

    No, his Son became a man by coming out of Mary. This has been stated repeatedly. Why do you keep ignoring it?

    What did Mary do for His Son who existed before already?

    She gave him humanity. This has been stated repeatedly. Why do you keep ignoring it?

    Luke 1:48 Mary calls herself His Handmaid!

    So what?

    Mary doesn't call herself Mother of God.

    So what?

    Nobody in the Bible calls Mary Mother of God.

    So what?

    It contradicts Trinity because:
    If she is mother of God,
    then she should be Mother of Holy Spirit, because Holy Spirit is God.
    If Mary is Mother of God, she should be Mother of God the Father, because God the Father is God.

    Wrong again. God the Son became the incarnate Jesus of Nazareth and was born of Mary. God the Holy Spirit did not become incarnate, and was not born of Mary. God the Father did not become incarante, and was not born of Mary. This has been stated repeatedly. Why do you keep ignoring it?

    If anyone denies that God the Father is God, then she or he is heretic! Anathema!

    No one is denying that God the Father is God. Why are you being so foolish?

    The whole theory of Mother of God is strawman's theory based on Human Syllogism, heretic comedy!

    The whole theory of Mother of God is based on Scripture and sound reason, and you do not even know what a syllogism is.

    Anathema!

    Aardvark!
     
    #120 Ransom, Dec 21, 2005
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