Does God have a Mother?

[Eliyahu]

Again Chemnitz you betray your ignorance and your faith.
[/QUOTE]

Did I say that all of them are not Christian? Don't try to accuse me of what I didn't say!

Have you read the article which I posted above?

Yes, there were many Lutherans who opposed to Nazis, but the majority supported Hitler. Even among the RC, there were many persecuted by Nazis. But such fact doesn't overwhelm the mainstream that Mostly RC supported Nazis and Lutherans followed them too, remembering what Martin Luther said.
Adolf Hitler may have worshipped pagan faith too, as many RC have such pagan faith together.
What about Himler, Goebels, and many other Hitler's henchmen? They are so called devout Catholic.

If you have any literature written by Nestorius, show it here!
Martin Luther was a born-again believer, a true believer, however, he didn't depart from RC very much in many aspects such as Consubstantiation, etc.
Not only Luther we notice, many reformers, even though they were born again Christians, made a lot of mistakes. Therefore such reference does not supercede the Bible Hebrews 7:3 where it denies Son of God has Mother.

 

[Bunyon]

No, the point is that this matter was settled once and for all by the Church nearly 1600 years ago, has been believed by Christians ever since - and before - and it is most unfortunate that you and Eliyahu seek to revive the heretical opinion of Nestorius on a Christian board
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I think you will find very few on this board think the mother of God title is correct or wise.
The thing was only settled because the Nascent catholic church was already becoming all powerful. I don't consider either party at Ephesus to be real Christians. And besides, you are just plain wrong Matt, if you even care, I have said several times that if you agree to limit the word mother, you can force the syllogism to work. My question is why in the world would you want to?

Chill out a little Matt, Doubting Thomas if from Rome, Georgia! It was a joke.

 

[Matt Black]

Sorry, I thought you meant he was Catholic! My bad

I personally don't use the title Mother of God; it just features in my devotional life at all. But I will defend the right of other Christians to use it, simply because it is theologically accurate, IMO. To say otherwise is a Christological heresy.

 

[Eliyahu]

I need to stick neither to Nestorius, nor to any refomers, but Bible is enough!

Is it so difficult to understand Heb 7:3?

Let me repeat the interpreation again.

From chapter 1 of Hebrews, the writer explains that Jesus is far superior to anyone or to angels. But He was lowered lower than the angels, then he mentions Jesus as Son of God in 4:14. ch7:3 explains about Melchizedek,compared to Son of God.

He explains that Melchizedek is very similar to Son of God ( or may be the same)because,
He has no father, no mother, and no genealogy. These charactors are the common natures between Son of God and Melchizedek, doesn't Bible say so?

Was Hebrews written before Jesus was born out of Mary?

No! The writer knew about the virgin birth, but He says Melchzedek is similar to Son of God because He has no mother!

Do you understand it?
Is it merely my own interpretation? How is your interpretation?

 

[Eliyahu]

Matt,
If your view is correct, how come there are so many interpretations of the Bible between Christians? Sounds to me like either the Holy Spirit doesn't do a very good job or that there must be some other way of interpreting the Bible...

It is like a blindman touches the big elephant!

 

[Eliyahu]

Hi everyone, let's try to limit the subject or territory of the theme to the original one.

As for anti-semitism of Luther, Jews know the exact comments and I was very much surprised about it when I heard it and resisted them, but I could understand both sides. There might be a human limit of the believer-Luther as we all have.

Now I posted my own interpretation of Heb 7:3 and therefore if Matt has another interpretation of Heb 7:3, pleas present it, explaining how the verse describe Son of God.

 

[Matt Black]

But many of these interpretations are contradictory even to the point of being mutually anathematising; so more like the blind men touching an elephant...and a giraffe.

[ETA - this is reply to Eliyahu's post timed @ 4-27pm GMT]

 

[Doubting Thomas]

Originally posted by Bunyon:
The thing was only settled because the Nascent catholic church was already becoming all powerful.

Oh, no....not the dastardly, all-powerful catholic church.

I don't consider either party at Ephesus to be real Christians.

And I'm sure they might return the favor to you as well.

 

[Matt Black]

Originally posted by Eliyahu:

Now I posted my own interpretation of Heb 7:3 and therefore if Matt has another interpretation of Heb 7:3, pleas present it, explaining how the verse describe Son of God.

A pre-incarnational theophany. It says he had no father also. To interpret this verse literally, assuming Melchisedek and Jesus to be congruent, would mean that that the term 'Son of God' itself would be incorrect - how can the 'Son of God' not have a Father? (Never mind what Jesus Himself says about being the 'Son of Man')

 

[Matt Black]

Originally posted by Doubting Thomas:
Oh, no....not the dastardly, all-powerful catholic church.

Can I join in: "Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!"

 

[Doubting Thomas]

Good point, Matt.

How can one claim that his interpretation of the Scripture is Spirit led as opposed to all the rest without falling into subjectivism? Yet that seems to be the case here--the pro-Nestorians here are claiming it's the Bible that exonerates Nestorius (and ultimately their position) as "orthodox" while implying those of the opposing position are obviously not being led by the Holy Spirit in their interpretation or are not "true Christians". Or else we're left with the Holy Spirit leading folks into mutually contradictory interpretations of Scripture.

 

[Chemnitz]

I did post quotes from a sermon by Nestorius but you seemed to have over looked them in your haste to tar and feather a good man for the actions of evil people. Kindly look back at pg 17

Once again, I will ask you to quite trying to discredit Luther because of how evil men twisted his writings and not lump Lutherans in with the official German State Church.

Your interpretation of Hebrew 7 is dead wrong in fact it is almost word for word Nestorius.

Is Paul then a liar when he says of the diety of Christ. 'without father, without mother, without genealogy?' Mary, my friend, did not give birth to the Godhead (for 'what is born of the flesh is flesh'. A creature did not produce him who is uncreatable. The Father has not just recently generated God the Logos from the Virgin..
Nestorius Against the Theotokos

Hebrew 7 makes no claim as to the Genealogy of Christ. It merely illustrates that Mechlizedeck's lack of genealogy points to an eternal High Priest.

 

[Eliyahu]

Originally posted by Matt Black:
I personally don't use the title Mother of God; it just features in my devotional life at all. But I will defend the right of other Christians to use it, simply because it is theologically accurate, IMO. To say otherwise is a Christological heresy . [/QB]

I think you'd better expand the scope of your understanding.
I am strong supporter for the deity of Jesus and believe that He is God, and believe that Johannine COMMA is the genuine part of true Bible, but do not call Mary as Mother of God, but call her as Mother of Jesus or Mother of the Lord. I limit the expression unto the point which is used and allowed by the Bible.
How much blessed Mary was or how much role Mary conducted is up to God, and I don't want to judge her. She is just one of the faithful and obedient believers, not the target to worship.

The problem is that such word, Mother of God gives very wrong impression to the believers and to the unbelievers as it sounds that she produced God,because the word Mother is always connected to "causing existence to" to the people.

I never found even the word " Mother of Christ"

 

[Matt Black]

So, what happened - did a stork drop Baby Jesus on Bethlehem?

 

[Doubting Thomas]

Originally posted by Matt Black:
So, what happened - did a stork drop Baby Jesus on Bethlehem?

 

[Eliyahu]

Chemnitz,

I mentioned whether the source of your quote is directly from Nestorius or the one forged and abreviated by Roman Catholic?
I don't want to judge anyone without the direct and full description of his faith, especially when Roman Catholic is involved.

BTW, if he really said divinity didn't die, he is different from my belief. Then please don't accuse me as the same as Nestorius! Jesus died completely at the Cross.

As for Lutheran, you'd better check with yahoo, with Martin Luther anti-semitism. Thousands will prove how he behaved.
However, he and many reformers were true believers, but they didn't escape very far from RCC. Calvin insisted Infant Baptism and he ordered burning a woman just because she refused the infant baptism for her child saying that baptism should be done only after the child confess the faith.

Heb 7:3 mentions about Son of God, and if He believed that Son of God has Mother, then he would have not likened Melchizedek to Son of God. He did it because both Melchizedek and Son of God has no Mother, which is the common point for both. Ask your kids whether my interpretation is correct or not, they would have not been contaminated with human theology.

Please note Human Syllogism doesn't work sometimes.

 

[Matt Black]

But Heb 7:3 also says that he had no father; does that mean God isn't His Father? Ask your kids etc...

 

[Eliyahu]

I think I have explained my view enough.
Nevertheless if you cannot understand, please ask your kids to read and interpret Heb 7:3,and ask whether Bible denies Son of God has mother.

 

[Doubting Thomas]

Originally posted by Eliyahu:
Chemnitz,

I mentioned whether the source of your quote is directly from Nestorius or the one forged and abreviated by Roman Catholic?

How do you know there was any forgery or abbreviation involved in this case? Do you have primary evidence of this, or are you just parrotting second-hand conspiratorial viewpoints?

 

[Eliyahu]

Originally posted by Matt Black:
[ QB] But Heb 7:3 also says that he had no father; does that mean God isn't His Father? Ask your kids etc... [/QB]

Are you denying the virgin birth?