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Does God Have Libertarian Free Will?

S

SGO

Well-Known Member
Remembered one or one was brought to my mind.

"And thou, Capernaum,
which art exalted unto heaven,
shalt be brought down to hell:
for if the mighty works,
which had been done in thee,
had been done in Sodom,
it would have remained until this day."
Matthew 11:23

So He had thought about an (or more than one?) alternative scenario, and knew the result.
 
Reynolds

Reynolds

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Yeshua1 said:
He ALONE has that kind of will , and He can do anything that is consistent with his nature and His Attributes!
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He can do anything. The fact He did it would make it by defacto consistent with His attributes and Nature.
His description of Himself to us was done from omniscience.
 
37818

37818

Well-Known Member
Steven Yeadon said:
Regardless of what man wants or chooses, does God have libertarian free will?
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What does that mean for God to have libertarian free will?

God is infinitie, sovereign and absolutely omniscient, omnipootant. Immutable in His nature and will.

God is holy and infinitely good.
 
A

Aaron

Member
Site Supporter
Steven Yeadon said:
Regardless of what man wants or chooses, does God have libertarian free will? A will so free He can make judgment calls, change His mind, and identify and pick futures He desires? All within the confines of His character and promises made?

Furthermore, is God someone Whose omniscience does not bind His omnipotence, in that He can do all He pleases without confining Himself to one future from eternity past?

I assume in this analysis that man's choices have no impact on God's choices.
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It is impossible for God to lie, and He cannot deny Himself. That doesn't sound like libertarian free will to me.
 
A

AustinC

Well-Known Member
Steven Yeadon said:
Regardless of what man wants or chooses, does God have libertarian free will? A will so free He can make judgment calls, change His mind, and identify and pick futures He desires? All within the confines of His character and promises made?

Furthermore, is God someone Whose omniscience does not bind His omnipotence, in that He can do all He pleases without confining Himself to one future from eternity past?

I assume in this analysis that man's choices have no impact on God's choices.
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Steve, your question seems to be an attempt to anthropomorphize God.
Can anyone know the mind of God in order to declare what He chooses and how He chooses?
Libertarian is such a man-made concept. It is impossible to shove God into a human created box.
 
JonC

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
SavedByGrace said:
but, surely this implies that God's "free will" is bound up with mans, which is a non starter.
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If man's will is "bound" then so is God's will. That is the problem with defining one's nature as binding upon the will rather than a product of the person.

People say man's will is not free because it is a slave to man's nature. What this means is that man cannot truly will to act outside of his or her own nature (in salvation this is taken to mean that man cannot desire to come to God via human will). But it is a flawed argument because nature does not enslave man. Sin enslaves men, and men can be enslaved to righteousness. But nature is descriptive.

God cannot sin NOT because He lacks the ability but because sin is foreign to God's nature (nature being descriptive of God).
 
Y

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Reynolds said:
He can do anything. The fact He did it would make it by defacto consistent with His attributes and Nature.
His description of Himself to us was done from omniscience.
Click to expand...
he can do anything consistent with his attributes and nature!
 
Y

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Aaron said:
It is impossible for God to lie, and He cannot deny Himself. That doesn't sound like libertarian free will to me.
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Think real free will would mean that there is nothing external that can force one change their mind!
 
S

SGO

Well-Known Member
JonC said:
If man's will is "bound" then so is God's will. That is the problem with defining one's nature as binding upon the will rather than a product of the person.

People say man's will is not free because it is a slave to man's nature. What this means is that man cannot truly will to act outside of his or her own nature (in salvation this is taken to mean that man cannot desire to come to God via human will). But it is a flawed argument because nature does not enslave man. Sin enslaves men, and men can be enslaved to righteousness. But nature is descriptive.

God cannot sin NOT because He lacks the ability but because sin is foreign to God's nature (nature being descriptive of God).
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This is pretty clear teaching, thank you.
 
JonC

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
SavedByGrace said:
who, or what is God's will "bound" to?
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The "will" is not "bound" (that is a nonsense question). So I would say that God's will is not "bound" to anything anymore than our will is "bound" to anything.

Our natures describe us (and our will). We will that which is sinful because our hearts (our desires) are set on the things of the flesh. We are slaves to sin. Jesus frees us from this bondage. But our "wills" are not "freed". We are freed to will that which is good in Christ.

God is not bound. God's will expresses God's nature (not the reverse). The same is true of men. Our wills reflect our natures (our nature does not bind our will).
 
S

SGO

Well-Known Member
JonC said:
... We will that which is sinful because our hearts (our desires) are set on the things of the flesh. We are slaves to sin. Jesus frees us from this bondage. But our "wills" are not "freed". We are freed to will that which is good in Christ...
...Our wills reflect our natures (our nature does not bind our will).
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I can rejoice in that there is now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1)., but would you mind explaining please your phrase "But our wills are not 'freed'."

I know I don't love God as much as I profess to but do love that sin a little too much.
When I am fessed up and clear headed I cannot understand why it is so easy for me to be hypocritical.
 
Dave G

Dave G

Well-Known Member
JonC said:
But our "wills" are not "freed". We are freed to will that which is good in Christ.
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I suppose that depends upon the perspective, Jon.

To me, man's will is bound by his love for sin and the pleasure of it.
Upon the new birth, I see that will being freed from one thing, and bound to another.

As believers, we have now become the servants ( willing workers of it ) of righteousness ( Romans 6 ), whereas before we were the servants of sin.
So, "technically speaking", I do not see man's will set to neutral by God ( freed by "Prevenient Grace" ), but I instead see it as described above.


To state it straightforwardly, I agree with you.;)
 
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