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Does God Have Libertarian Free Will?

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AustinC

Well-Known Member
Steven Yeadon said:
I may be anthropomorphizing God, but it is an interesting thought that God having perfect knowledge of all things is the one free actor able to do whatever He wants within His character. Makes Him more transcendent and blessed to me.
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This assumes that God is unaware of any future events and has to react to those events and thus change His will. I do not see such a small god in the Bible. I would expect that only open theology proponents would follow such a god.
 
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Steven Yeadon

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
AustinC said:
This assumes that God is unaware of any future events and has to react to those events and thus change His will. I do not see such a small god in the Bible. I would expect that only open theology proponents would follow such a god.
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Please explain how that follows.

That goes against the idea God could choose possible futures before creation. Are you saying there is only one possible universe, the one we live in?
 
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AustinC

Well-Known Member
Steven Yeadon said:
Please explain how that follows.

That goes against the idea God could choose possible futures before creation. Are you saying there is only one possible universe, the one we live in?
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Why would God have "possible" futures? Do you not see such thinking as an attempt to lower God to human limitations?

I am saying that God has ordained and thus shall it be. God does not waver or react to "new" circumstances.

I reject open-theism entirely.
 
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Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
JonC said:
But our "wills" are not "prone to sin". Scripture tells us that WE (not our wills) are enslaved by sin. It is because WE are enslaved by sin that our desires of the flesh are acted out. I just find the whole "free-will" debate to be an excuse on both sides to avoid the issue which is men (not our wills, not our natures) being enslaved by sin. That type of thinking just moves the issue from us to some aspect or description of us.
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Our desires and what we will to do are bound up in the sin nature though
 
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Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
AustinC said:
Why would God have "possible" futures? Do you not see such thinking as an attempt to lower God to human limitations?

I am saying that God has ordained and thus shall it be. God does not waver or react to "new" circumstances.

I reject open-theism entirely.
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All of us should reject Open Theism
 
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Steven Yeadon

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
AustinC said:
Why would God have "possible" futures? Do you not see such thinking as an attempt to lower God to human limitations?

I am saying that God has ordained and thus shall it be. God does not waver or react to "new" circumstances.

I reject open-theism entirely.
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Ok, the OP assumes God's choices are iregardless of human action. That said, I will have to disagree with you here.
 
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Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Steven Yeadon said:
Ok, the OP assumes God's choices are iregardless of human action. That said, I will have to disagree with you here.
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God uses our choices and decisions , as He predetermine that Jesus would die on the Cross, and yet used the desires of wicked humans to have that accomplished!
 
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MB

Well-Known Member
SavedByGrace said:
are you agreeing that all lost sinners do have the "ability" to do right and wrong?
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Well if we didn't then we would have an excuse like Calvinist conveniently have. Since you believe everything is predetermined you can always say God made you do it. LOL!:D
MB
 
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Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
SavedByGrace said:
by God having a "free", that is "unrestricted", "will", means exactly what the Holy Bible says:

"I blessed the Most High and praised and honored Him who lives forever: For His dominion is an everlasting dominion, And His kingdom is from generation to generation. All the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; He does according to His will in the army of heaven And among the inhabitants of the earth. No one can restrain His hand Or say to Him, “What have You done?” (Daniel 4:34-35)

"For I know that the Lord is great, And our Lord is above all gods. Whatever the Lord pleases He does, In heaven and in earth, In the seas and in all deep places." (Psalm 135:5-6)

This IS God's FREE WILL.
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You sound like a Calvinist there brother!
 
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Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
SavedByGrace said:
are you agreeing that all lost sinners do have the "ability" to do right and wrong?
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They can do what their natures allow for them to do, as have limited free will, as there are things they will not desire nor want to do!

Per Luther, Bondage of the Will...
 
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AustinC

Well-Known Member
MB said:
Well if we didn't then we would have an excuse like Calvinist conveniently have. Since you believe everything is predetermined you can always say God made you do it. LOL!:D
MB
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You could say that if you were theologically clueless. I have never heard any proponent of Calvin say that so it seems it's a cop-out on your end.
 
JonC

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
Yeshua1 said:
Our desires and what we will to do are bound up in the sin nature though
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Or our sin nature is bound with our desires. I think it best to simply stick with Scripture's use of "flesh" and "Spirit".

John Piper wrote a good book, BTW, that addresses some of this. It's Desiring God (I think he has it in PDF on his website for free download).
 
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