Does God Have Libertarian Free Will?

[SGO]

Romans 7:14-25
Galatians 5:16-17.

It happens to all of us, my friend.

Ok, thank you.

Romans 7 does match many aspects of the struggle.
And in Galatians if I am led by the Spirit then I am no longer under the law,
and that I will not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

But that is not my 100%-.05% daily experience.

Is it because I don't count myself dead?

Please tell me the easy way to do that, short of suicide.

 

[JonC]

I suppose that depends upon the perspective, Jon.

To me, man's will is bound by his love for sin and the pleasure of it.
Upon the new birth, I see that will being freed from one thing, and bound to another.

As believers, we have now become the servants ( willing workers of it ) of righteousness ( Romans 6 ), whereas before we were the servants of sin.
So, "technically speaking", I do not see man's will set to neutral by God ( freed by "Prevenient Grace" ), but I instead see it as described above.


To state it straightforwardly, I agree with you.

It is a matter of perspective (and how one defines "nature" and perhaps "will").

That's why I like the terms "flesh vs will" instead of all the philosophical ideas that involve "will vs nature". I like it because that is what Scripture says and I don't have to understand it to quote Scripture....all I have to do is find it.

 

[Dave G]

But that is not my 100%-.05% daily experience.

Is it because I don't count myself dead?

Please tell me the easy way to do that, short of suicide.

There is no "easy" way...
But there is one way, and it will happen for all those who truly love Him:


" But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ [be] in you, the body [is] dead because of sin; but the Spirit [is] life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God." ( Romans 8:9-14 ).

Study His word my friend, and strive against sin.
It's all we can do until we wait for Him to do the rest.

 

[SavedByGrace]

our will is "bound" to anything

as our "wills" are prone to sin, this equates that they are "bound" to sin, which is why the Lord says that He must set us free. (John 8:36)

 

[SavedByGrace]

We are freed to will that which is good in Christ.

or, not

 

[SGO]

There is no "easy" way...
But there is one way, and it will happen for all those who truly love Him:


" But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ [be] in you, the body [is] dead because of sin; but the Spirit [is] life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God." ( Romans 8:9-14 ).

Study His word my friend, and strive against sin.
It's all we can do until we wait for Him to do the rest.

Thank you brother Dave.

but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

This is the easiest way you have? Strive?

Ya, even Paul said somewhere (1 Corinthians 9:27) he brings his body into subjection.

Well, then would you believe I have heard of this from time to time (not in detail) but knew I would not do it.
Yes I just sinned but when will I love God enough to commit everything?
I'm 70 years old and have been saved 46 years. If it hasn't happened by now I will probably die before that and then it will be 100% dope slap.

 

[JonC]

as our "wills" are prone to sin, this equates that they are "bound" to sin, which is why the Lord says that He must set us free. (John 8:36)

But our "wills" are not "prone to sin". Scripture tells us that WE (not our wills) are enslaved by sin. It is because WE are enslaved by sin that our desires of the flesh are acted out. I just find the whole "free-will" debate to be an excuse on both sides to avoid the issue which is men (not our wills, not our natures) being enslaved by sin. That type of thinking just moves the issue from us to some aspect or description of us.

 

[Yeshua1]

But our "wills" are not "prone to sin". Scripture tells us that WE (not our wills) are enslaved by sin. It is because WE are enslaved by sin that our desires of the flesh are acted out. I just find the whole "free-will" debate to be an excuse on both sides to avoid the issue which is men (not our wills, not our natures) being enslaved by sin. That type of thinking just moves the issue from us to some aspect or description of us.

Our will and our desire are as sinners, God has no such compulsion to ever sin, as we do bein gin very nature the natural thing to be doing!

 

[JonC]

Our will and our desire are as sinners, God has no such compulsion to ever sin, as we do bein gin very nature the natural thing to be doing!

Our wills and desires are as sinners. But the problem is not our wills and desires but us as slaves to sin. We must be born again.

 

[Yeshua1]

Our wills and desires are as sinners. But the problem is not our wills and desires but us as slaves to sin. We must be born again.

all asp[ects of us are fallen....

 

[JonC]

all asp[ects of us are fallen....

Because WE are enslaved by sin.

 

[SGO]

Our wills and desires are as sinners. But the problem is not our wills and desires but us as slaves to sin. We must be born again.

Do I need to be born again again???
Romans 8 says I'm free.

I'm a slave to sin because I give in.
Even if I don't obey those impulses ALL the time.

Dave G says here that I need to strive.

Maybe God will give me a nice present, eh?

 

[JonC]

Do I need to be born again again???
Romans 8 says I'm free.

I'm a slave to sin because I give in.
Even if I don't obey those impulses ALL the time.

Dave G says here that I need to strive.

Maybe God will give me a nice present, eh?

Yes. Freedom is in Christ. This is not merely fixing a defective nature or wayward will. We are reborn of the Spirit, baptized into Christ.

Rebirth is necessary (Paul's words in Romans were to believers- to those who are "in Christ").

 

[AustinC]

Do I need to be born again again???
Romans 8 says I'm free.

I'm a slave to sin because I give in.
Even if I don't obey those impulses ALL the time.

Dave G says here that I need to strive.

Maybe God will give me a nice present, eh?

As a child of God I am assured that my Father will discipline me and make me into his image.
Hebrews 12:3-29

Consider him who endured from sinners such hostility against himself, so that you may not grow weary or fainthearted. In your struggle against sin you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood. And have you forgotten the exhortation that addresses you as sons? “My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord, nor be weary when reproved by him. For the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives.” It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline? If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons. Besides this, we have had earthly fathers who disciplined us and we respected them. Shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits and live? For they disciplined us for a short time as it seemed best to them, but he disciplines us for our good, that we may share his holiness. For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant, but later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it. Therefore lift your drooping hands and strengthen your weak knees, and make straight paths for your feet, so that what is lame may not be put out of joint but rather be healed. Strive for peace with everyone, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord. See to it that no one fails to obtain the grace of God; that no “root of bitterness” springs up and causes trouble, and by it many become defiled; that no one is sexually immoral or unholy like Esau, who sold his birthright for a single meal. For you know that afterward, when he desired to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no chance to repent, though he sought it with tears. For you have not come to what may be touched, a blazing fire and darkness and gloom and a tempest and the sound of a trumpet and a voice whose words made the hearers beg that no further messages be spoken to them. For they could not endure the order that was given, “If even a beast touches the mountain, it shall be stoned.” Indeed, so terrifying was the sight that Moses said, “I tremble with fear.” But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering, and to the assembly of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel. See that you do not refuse him who is speaking. For if they did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, much less will we escape if we reject him who warns from heaven. At that time his voice shook the earth, but now he has promised, “Yet once more I will shake not only the earth but also the heavens.” This phrase, “Yet once more,” indicates the removal of things that are shaken—that is, things that have been made—in order that the things that cannot be shaken may remain. Therefore let us be grateful for receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, and thus let us offer to God acceptable worship, with reverence and awe, for our God is a consuming fire.

 

[SGO]

Good.
Thank you.
But I cannot sit down at the moment even though I have been blessed by the posts.

 

[SavedByGrace]

But our "wills" are not "prone to sin". Scripture tells us that WE (not our wills) are enslaved by sin. It is because WE are enslaved by sin that our desires of the flesh are acted out. I just find the whole "free-will" debate to be an excuse on both sides to avoid the issue which is men (not our wills, not our natures) being enslaved by sin. That type of thinking just moves the issue from us to some aspect or description of us.

To "will" is simply the ability to "choose", to do what is right, or wrong, good, or bad. Naturally we all choose to do wrong in God's eyes

 

[Steven Yeadon]

I may be anthropomorphizing God, but it is an interesting thought that God having perfect knowledge of all things is the one free actor able to do whatever He wants within His character. Makes Him more transcendent and blessed to me.

 

[SGO]

I may be anthropomorphizing God, but it is an interesting thought that God having perfect knowledge of all things is the one free actor able to do whatever He wants within His character. Makes Him more transcendent and blessed to me.

For in him we live, and move,
and have our being;
Acts 17:28

 

[Aaron]

this has got nothing to do with the "will" of God, but His Unchanging, Perfect Nature.

Think real free will would mean that there is nothing external that can force one change their mind!

When men use the terms "free will," they mean that one is 'free' to sin or not. That's what is meant when men try to say Adam had free will, and that is what is meant when the impeccability of Christ (the incorruptibility of Christ, rather) is at issue.

What is really being asked is, can God do evil? It's a faithless question. If He can do evil, then He can suddenly decide to break His promises, and no one is really saved, or safe.

It's a heart of unbelief that poses such questions.

 

[SavedByGrace]

What is really being asked is, can God do evil?

by God having a "free", that is "unrestricted", "will", means exactly what the Holy Bible says:

"I blessed the Most High and praised and honored Him who lives forever: For His dominion is an everlasting dominion, And His kingdom is from generation to generation. All the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; He does according to His will in the army of heaven And among the inhabitants of the earth. No one can restrain His hand Or say to Him, “What have You done?” (Daniel 4:34-35)

"For I know that the Lord is great, And our Lord is above all gods. Whatever the Lord pleases He does, In heaven and in earth, In the seas and in all deep places." (Psalm 135:5-6)

This IS God's FREE WILL.