Does God Learn?

[kyredneck]

"No, and those who believe He learns hold on the heresy
No, those who believe He does are just wrong "

What's the difference between 'heresy' and being 'just wrong'? Is one supposed to be worse than the other? Does 'heresy' mean you're bound for hell, 'just wrong' bound for heaven?

 

[webdog]

,

Great is our Lord, and mighty in power; his understanding is infinite (Psalm 147:5).

For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knows all things (1 John 3:20).

Known to God from eternity are all his works (Acts 15:18).

Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments and his ways past finding out (Romans 11:33).

The eyes of the LORD are in every place, keeping watch on the evil and the good (Proverbs 15:3).

Great is our Lord, and abundant in power; his understanding is beyond measure (Psalm 147:5).

Do you know the balance of the clouds, those wondrous works of him who is perfect in knowledge (Job 37:16).

Can anyone teach God knowledge, in that he judges those on high? (Job 21:22).

For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who became his counselor? (Romans 11:34).

For he knows those who are worthless, and he sees iniquity without investigating (Job 11:11).

Declares the end from the beginning, and from ancient times things which have not been done, saying, ?‘My purpose will be established, and I will accomplish all my good pleasure (Isaiah 46:10).

For my eyes are on all their ways; they are not hidden from my face, nor is their iniquity concealed from my eyes (Jeremiah 16:17).

Does he who implanted the ear not hear? Does he who formed the eye not see? (Psalm 94:9).



There are more, but this is a good start.

Those are good...and true.

Now how about all those with test, repent, relent, search, etc that are equally true?,,,,

 

[Winman]

First of all, 1 John 3:20 says that God knows everything.

We search because we don't know something. Does that mean God doesn't know something? No, as it would contradict I John 3:20.

1 John 3:20 in context is speaking of the heart of a believer. It is saying God knows the heart. Nevertheless, the scriptures repeatedly say that God searches the heart.

1 Chr 28:9 And thou, Solomon my son, know thou the God of thy father, and serve him with a perfect heart and with a willing mind: for the LORD searcheth all hearts, and understandeth all the imaginations of the thoughts: if thou seek him, he will be found of thee; but if thou forsake him, he will cast thee off for ever.

Your method of interpretation is to start with your presupposition, and then interpret scripture to agree with it, and deny or misinterpret all scripture that disagrees with your presupposition. Not a good method.

God is no fool, God understands language, and God understands the definitions of words. If God says he searches the heart, then that is what he does.

 

[Amy.G]

,

Those are good...and true.

Now how about all those with test, repent, relent, search, etc that are equally true?,,,,

Post the verses that contain those words and we'll look at them.

All scripture is true, but you can't believe God knows everything and at the same time believe He learns stuff. That makes no sense.

 

[righteousdude2]

I'll Have to....

....wait and ask Him that in person.....:smilewinkgrin:

 

[mandym]

If God says he searches the heart, then that is what he does.

Well now you have a problem. Since God searches the heart then he had no need to put Abraham to a test in order to learn something about him.

 

[webdog]

Post the verses that contain those words and we'll look at them.

All scripture is true, but you can't believe God knows everything and at the same time believe He learns stuff. That makes no sense.

Us making sense of something does not equate to it being true. Jesus being both fully God and man doesn't make sense. Giving His life for His creation makes no sense. God being both one and three persons makes no sense. Walking on water makes no sense. Why blindly accept those via faith...but needing this particular topic to "make sense"?

 

[webdog]

Well now you have a problem. Since God searches the heart then he had no need to put Abraham to a test in order to learn something about him.

Thats a false dichotomy, hence no problem.

 

[mandym]

Thats a false dichotomy, hence no problem.

It is a clear problem with your doctrine.

 

[Winman]

Well now you have a problem. Since God searches the heart then he had no need to put Abraham to a test in order to learn something about him.

What? The fact that God put Abraham to a test does not mean he did not search his heart, I would say the test was the very method he used to search his heart.

This does not present a problem to me at all. What is a problem, is that if God knows everything, why would a test be necessary?

See, you guys present God as some sort of confused person who doesn't understand what he is saying. When God told Abraham "now I know that thou fearest God" he was confused or forgetful. The only other option would be that God lied.

You guys can call me a heretic all you want, I am going to believe what God said. I don't think God was confused or forgetful, and I know God cannot lie or be misleading. God knows what he is saying, and he means what he says.

What a joke, if a person believes what God said he is called a heretic! You guys really aren't thinking about what you are saying.

 

[webdog]

It is a clear problem with your doctrine.

False dichotomies pose no problems :laugh:

that is why it is called a debate fallacy.

 

[jbh28]

1 John 3:20 in context is speaking of the heart of a believer. It is saying God knows the heart. Nevertheless, the scriptures repeatedly say that God searches the heart.

1 Chr 28:9 And thou, Solomon my son, know thou the God of thy father, and serve him with a perfect heart and with a willing mind: for the LORD searcheth all hearts, and understandeth all the imaginations of the thoughts: if thou seek him, he will be found of thee; but if thou forsake him, he will cast thee off for ever.

Your method of interpretation is to start with your presupposition, and then interpret scripture to agree with it, and deny or misinterpret all scripture that disagrees with your presupposition. Not a good method.

God is no fool, God understands language, and God understands the definitions of words. If God says he searches the heart, then that is what he does.

Never said that God doesn't search the heart. And you are right, if God "says" it he means it. But he never said he doesn't know. And I John says "everything" not "somethings." the reason God knows the heart is because he knows "everything." And there are many other passages that says that God knows everything.

 

[mandym]

False dichotomies pose no problems :laugh:

that is why it is called a debate fallacy.

The reality is it is not a false Dichotomy. I seriously doubt you could even explain your claim.

 

[jbh28]

See, you guys present God as some sort of confused person who doesn't understand what he is saying. When God told Abraham "now I know that thou fearest God" he was confused or forgetful. The only other option would be that God lied.

No, we present God as the Bible does and that's that He has ALL knowledge and is eternal. There was no lie. God didn't say that he didn't know the result of the test before giving the test. Again, more reading into the text.

You guys can call me a heretic all you want, I am going to believe what God said. I don't think God was confused or forgetful, and I know God cannot lie or be misleading. God knows what he is saying, and he means what he says.

Correct and God NEVER said he doesn't know something. So you are not believing what God said. He never said he doesn't know something. He never said he doesn't know something....

What a joke, if a person believes what God said he is called a heretic! You guys really aren't thinking about what you are saying.

Actually, you are not believing what God said. There are 0 verses that say that God does NOT know something. 0 , not a one. You are making God something less that the Bible teaches.

 

[webdog]

The reality is it is not a false Dichotomy. I seriously doubt you could even explain your claim.

Reality is you do not know what a false dichotomy is. Putting someone to the test and searching their heart are not at odds with each other as you claim.

I explained "my claim" throughout this thread.

Answer these questions.

Is Jesus fully God?
IS jesus fully man?
Did Jesus learn anything?

"your honor, no further questions".

 

[mandym]

Reality is you do not know what a false dichotomy is. Putting someone to the test and searching their heart are not at odds with each other as you claim.

That is not what I claimed. What I am saying is that since God searches the heart He has no need to put someone to the test to learn something about them. He already knowing their hearts already knows before the test is necessary.

I explained "my claim" throughout this thread.

Answer these questions.

Is Jesus fully God?
IS jesus fully man?
Did Jesus learn anything?

"your honor, no further questions".

Because Jesus as a man grew and learned in His humanity does not suggest that God the Father and the Spirit, nor Jesus now or before His incarnation had need to learn anything. That is not even a weak argument. It is a non argument.

 

[Winman]

No, we present God as the Bible does and that's that He has ALL knowledge and is eternal. There was no lie. God didn't say that he didn't know the result of the test before giving the test. Again, more reading into the text.

Yes, he did.

Gen 22:12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.

When God said NOW I know, it is naturally understood that he did not know before.

But this is not the only instance of God saying he knows, or would know something in time.

Gen 18:21 I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.

Correct and God NEVER said he doesn't know something. So you are not believing what God said. He never said he doesn't know something. He never said he doesn't know something....

And I just showed you Gen 18:21 where God said he would go down NOW to Sodom to SEE if they had done according to the cry he heard, and if not, he would know. God is saying he would not know until he went down to see for himself.

Actually, you are not believing what God said. There are 0 verses that say that God does NOT know something. 0 , not a one. You are making God something less that the Bible teaches.

Nonsense, I just showed you scripture where God said he did not know if Sodom was indeed doing according to the cry he heard, and would go down in person and see.

Your debate is not with me, it is with the word of God.

 

[jbh28]

Yes, he did.

Gen 22:12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.

When God said NOW I know, it is naturally understood that he did not know before.

Naturally if we were speaking of mortal humans. And then again, not really. I can put you to a test to let you prove to me you can do something. That doesn't mean that I didn't know what you would do already. Now for me personally, I wouldn't because I don't ahve all knowledge like God.

But this is not the only instance of God saying he knows, or would know something in time.

Gen 18:21 I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.

Isn't God omnipresent? Why would he have to go down..... think about that and it may clue you in on your error.

And I just showed you Gen 18:21 where God said he would go down NOW to Sodom to SEE if they had done according to the cry he heard, and if not, he would know. God is saying he would not know until he went down to see for himself.



Nonsense, I just showed you scripture where God said he did not know if Sodom was indeed doing according to the cry he heard, and would go down in person and see.

Your debate is not with me, it is with the word of God.

Winman, it doesn't say that before he didn't. You are making an unbiblical assumption based on reading the passage incorrectly. Of course now God knows because Abraham proved himself through his work. But that does NOT mean that God didn't know ahead of time. How could God possibly not know? Isn't God eternal. Or is God locked in time and didn't know the event? Again, the Bible NEVER says that God doesn't know something.

So not only do you not have a Bible verse that says that God doesn't know something, you have many problems with all the passages that says that God is all knowing.

 

[OldRegular]

The poll shows at least 3 heretics on the Board!

 

[webdog]

The poll shows at least 3 heretics on the Board!

It actually shows 3 that have not brought the 1st century heresy into the 21st century as you and many others have.