Does God love all?

[Rippon]

All Scripture Is From The HCSB

Decretive will? If there is such a thing and it is not revealed to us, how in heaven's name can you say His decretive will elects some and passes over others for reprobation?

What utter nonsense!

God is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. He is not a respector of persons picking and choosing who He wants to be elect and who He wants to send to hell.

Your interpretation of Holy Scripture concerning God's love and it's far-reaching call is severely lacking.

SFIC , you need to that : God elects . That means He chooses . He does not choose all . It is in His mercy that chooses . By his justice alone we would all be condemned to Hell .

When ( or if ) you vote ,you cast your decision for a particular candidate . But election in the Bible is not democratic -- God chooses , not people .

Ephesians 1:4 : for he chose us in Him , before the foundation of the world , to be holy and blamless in his sight .

Ephesians 1:11 : In Him we were also made His inheritance , predestined according to the purpose of the one who works out everything in agreement with the decision of His will .

2 Thessalonians 2:13 : But we must always thank God for you , brothers loved by the Lord , because from the beginning God has chosen you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and through belief in the truth .

2 Timothy 1:9 : who has saved us and called us with a holy calling , not according to our works , but according to His own purpose and grace , which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began .

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Paul did not say 'He chose only us to be in Him before the foundation of the world.' He chose us... us representing man.

God so loved the world ... man that He gave His only Son.

Christ was said to be the Lamb slain before the foundation of the world. Why was He appointed this cruel punishment?

To call sinners to repentance... all sinners. Not just some, but all.

He came for the purpose of the cross... that all sinners, not some, would be drawn to Him.

 

[larryjf]

Wrong!

The Word of God never says God controls salvation. He is salvation Himself. He gives salvation. He offers Salvation to any person who is thirsty.

It is the Calvinist doctrine that is trying to control salvation.

Actually, the word of God tells us that it is God who chooses...

Deuteronomy 7:7
It was not because you were more in number than any other people that the Lord set his love on you and chose you, for you were the fewest of all peoples,


John 15:16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you.


John 15:19
If you were of the world, the world would love you as its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.


2 Thessalonians 2:13
But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth.

 

[Amy.G]

Amy, I was not there to say how any experienced it. Many who were mocking experienced the fact that the Holy Spirit had fell upon all men... just as Scripture states. Many refused to allow that Spirit to take root in their hearts and lives.

Yeah, the Spirit fell on all people except the mockers. :laugh: He didn't fall on all people then did He?

You say that the mockers experienced the Holy Spirit, but all they did was see the Holy Spirit manifested in others, all the while saying the disciples were drunk. I don't think mocking is evidence of "experiencing" the Holy Spirit.

The Spirit falls on those that God chooses for Him to fall.

 

[larryjf]

Christ was said to be the Lamb slain before the foundation of the world. Why was He appointed this cruel punishment?

To call sinners to repentance... all sinners. Not just some, but all.

He came for the purpose of the cross... that all sinners, not some, would be drawn to Him.

Christ did not die to call sinners, He died to save them! His death is effectual, not just a possibility or a call. How terrible it would be if He died only to call people and didn't actually purchase redemption for His people.

 

[Amy.G]

Here's another one.


Eph 1:4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love
Eph 1:5 He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,

 

[TCGreek]

Yeah, the Spirit fell on all people except the mockers. :laugh: He didn't fall on all people then did He?

You say that the mockers experienced the Holy Spirit, but all they did was see the Holy Spirit manifested in others, all the while saying the disciples were drunk. I don't think mocking is evidence of "experiencing" the Holy Spirit.

The Spirit falls on those that God chooses for Him to fall.

Good stuff, Amy. :thumbs:

 

[webdog]

God's word tells us that He hates individuals...

The LORD tests the righteous, but his soul hates the wicked and the one who loves violence. (Psa 11:5)


This is not referring to nations, but individual people... "the righteous one" and "the wicked one."

why would God send those He loves to Hell?

Please show where God's hatred means an absence of love from Scripture, as we know the word "hate" to mean. It's clear sane and miseou do not hold to the same meaning as we understand the term to mean, otherwise what God calls murder (and sin), He would be doing that which He commands us not to do.

 

[Amy.G]

This is one of the many verses that I could not grasp as a non-cal.

2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

If God is not willing that any should perish, why do any perish?

Is God's will not done? God's will is that all should come to repentance, yet not all come.

Or do they? I believe the "all" in this verse refers to "all" those whose names are written in the Lambs book of life. The "all" that the Father draws. The "all" that will come because they have been drawn by the Father.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

When you go to a race, you experience the thrill of the cars zipping around the track at breaknexk speeds, yet it is not you who is behind the wheel, is it? And over time, the thrill wears off.

No, the Word of God says the Spirit fell on all flesh, It does not say some.

Just as the seed that fell on stony ground and the ground did not receive it, the Holy Spirit fell on every individual on this earth (all flesh) but many were like that stony ground and did not receive the Spirit.

The mockers were not receptive of the Spirit of God.

If the Spirit did not fall on each and every individual as the Scripture states, then God's Word is a lie and no longer the truth.

 

[webdog]

If God is not willing that any should perish, why do any perish?

A proper understanding of God's will is needed.

Is God's will not done? God's will is that all should come to repentance, yet not all come.

See above...

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Please show where God's hatred means an absence of love from Scripture, as we know the word "hate" to mean. It's clear sane and miseou do not hold to the same meaning as we understand the term to mean, otherwise what God calls murder (and sin), He would be doing that which He commands us not to do.

great post, webdog! God is not going to do that which He commands us not to do.

 

[Amy.G]

great post, webdog! God is not going to do that which He commands us not to do.

Really? Did God kill all humanity in the great flood except Noah and his family?

Did God not kill all of Sodom and Gemmorah except Lot and his daughters?

God has authority over all life, we do not.

 

[Amy.G]

A proper understanding of God's will is needed.

See above...

So, please enlighten us. What was God's will in the verse I posted?

 

[webdog]

Really? Did God kill all humanity in the great flood except Noah and his family?

Did God not kill all of Sodom and Gemmorah except Lot and his daughters?

God has authority over all life, we do not.

God's killing was just. Murder is not "just" killing. Apples and oranges.

 

[webdog]

So, please enlighten us. What was God's will in the verse I posted?

God's desire, not His decretive will, or else God failed as you stated.

Let's look at another verse (for His chosen...us)

1Th 4:3 For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you abstain from sexual immorality;
1Th 4:4 that each one of you know how to control his own body in holiness and honor,
1Th 4:5 not in the passion of lust like the Gentiles who do not know God;

Let's see...Has God's will failed here, because there are many believers who this doesn't apply to, would you agree? Just look in the poll forums. There's a thread right now about pastors and church leaders who have fallen into sexual sin. Like 2 Peter 3:9...has God failed?

I mean if God has willed it...it can't be any other way, right? (using the logic you and many calvinists have employed with 2 Peter)

 

[larryjf]

God is not subservient to His law as we are.
We are subject to it, but that doesn't mean that God is.

If God is subject to human will regarding salvation, and He is subject to His laws regarding His actions, then He seems to be subject to quite a bit for being a sovereign God.

The law is an expression of God's character, that much is true. But it is that part of His character that He prescribes us to act by since we are very limited in our knowledge and insight. God is not limited in that way, so He has other things within His nature that allows Him to act above His law.

His law is a good example of His prescribed will, but His decretive will certainly doesn't always follow it. That's not because His will is at odds with itself, but because it is focused on different objects as i mentioned in an earlier post.

 

[webdog]

God is not subservient to His law as we are.
We are subject to it, but that doesn't mean that God is.

If God is subject to human will regarding salvation, and He is subject to His laws regarding His actions, then He seems to be subject to quite a bit for being a sovereign God.

The law is an expression of God's character, that much is true. But it is that part of His character that He prescribes us to act by since we are very limited in our knowledge and insight. God is not limited in that way, so He has other things within His nature that allows Him to act above His law.

His law is a good example of His prescribed will, but His decretive will certainly doesn't always follow it. That's not because His will is at odds with itself, but because it is focused on different objects as i mentioned in an earlier post.

Since God's Law is righteousness...you are advocating God is not bound to His own righteousness, or what HE deems as such? Wow.

 

[larryjf]

Since God's Law is righteousness...you are advocating God is not bound to His own righteousness, or what HE deems as such? Wow.

I actually cringed when i read this.
It is not His Law that is righteousness, but God Himself is.

 

[TCGreek]

I actually cringed when i read this.
It is not His Law that is righteousness, but God Himself is.

Another way to put it is: Whatever brings God glory is His righteousness.