Does God Love Every Individual Person in the Same Manner?

[thatbrian]

You missed the most important part of verse 15, "they have closed their eyes"! It was not because Jesus did not want them not to understand and not get saved, which you guys are trying hard to find in the Bible, But THEY CLOSED THEIR EYES to the Truth! Paul says the same in 2 Thessalonians 2:10, "They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved". Stick to the Word and be safe!

All men have closed their eyes, just as Paul did, but Christ opens the eyes of the elect. Read down to the last section.

 

[thatbrian]

OK, so you have cut and pasted from Romans 9, what of it? spell it out!

My friend. I can't do the heavy lifting for you. You have eyes. Read it.

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

My friend. I can't do the heavy lifting for you. You have eyes. Read it.

Yes I have read it. For example it says about God's purpose of election in the SERVICE of Jacob and Esau, where the older shall SERVE the younger. No mention of salvation! Even Pharaohs heart being hardened, was for the Glory of God, and has NOTHING to do with any salvation! The vessels of "honour" and "dishonour" again for SERVICE, etc, etc. Calvinists read into things that are NOT there!

 

[thatbrian]

Yes I have read it. For example it says about God's purpose of election in the SERVICE of Jacob and Esau, where the older shall SERVE the younger. No mention of salvation! Even Pharaohs heart being hardened, was for the Glory of God, and has NOTHING to do with any salvation! The vessels of "honour" and "dishonour" again for SERVICE, etc, etc. Calvinists read into things that are NOT there!

OK.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

you seem to be blind to what the Bible says!

Ad homs aren't really a good substitute for a thoughtful rebuttal.

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

Ad homs aren't really a good substitute for a thoughtful rebuttal.

Not really. I see that Calvinists are content in arguing their case whatever the evidence might be, and try to find ways to step aside what the Bible actually does say. There is little point in arguing about "theology", especially where it is clear that this matters more than what Scripture says!

 

[Don]

We are all born naturally as sons of Adam. Spiritually, sinners can be described as son's of Satan, because they follow his behavior. (John 8:44) Also: "in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience"— (Ephesians 2:2)

Our sonship is one of adoption. "he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will," (Ephesians 1:5)

Thank you. I know where I was heading with this; but it was incorrect. Yes, I'm fully capable of publicly admitting when I'm wrong. <grin>

 

[utilyan]

do you think anyone "deserves" heaven and to be forever with the Lord?

Its about what God deserves not us. God is our priority our salvation is not.


Romans 10
6But the righteousness based on faith speaks as follows: “DO NOT SAY IN YOUR HEART, ‘WHO WILL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN?’ (that is, to bring Christ down), 7or ‘WHO WILL DESCEND INTO THE ABYSS?’ (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).”

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

Its about what God deserves not us. God is our priority our salvation is not.


Romans 10
6But the righteousness based on faith speaks as follows: “DO NOT SAY IN YOUR HEART, ‘WHO WILL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN?’ (that is, to bring Christ down), 7or ‘WHO WILL DESCEND INTO THE ABYSS?’ (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).”

Sure it is all about God, no one is denying that. However, every human being from Adam till the last person on this earth, is "worthy" of only one thing, and that is "eternal punishment". No person is "worthy" of being with God! "There is none righteous, no, not one" (Romans 3:10). God owes us NOTHING! All that we do have is because of His abundant Mercy, Love, Compassion, Grace and Forgiveness!

 

[HankD]

"For God so loved the WORLD..." (John 3:16)

Greek "kosmos", is used in this passage for the "whole human race"

Even the "champion" of so-called "Calvinism", says:

" That whosoever believeth on him may not perish. It is a remarkable commendation of faith, that it frees us from everlasting destruction. For he intended expressly to state that, though we appear to have been born to death, undoubted deliverance is offered to us by the faith of Christ; and, therefore, that we ought not to fear death, which otherwise hangs over us. And he has employed the universal term whosoever, both to invite all indiscriminately to partake of life, and to cut off every excuse from unbelievers. Such is also the import of the term World, which he formerly used; for though nothing will be found in the world that is worthy of the favor of God, yet he shows himself to be reconciled to the whole world, when he invites all men without exception to the faith of Christ, which is nothing else than an entrance into life."

Note, Calvin does not use the term that "Calvinist" like, "all men without distinction", but "EXCEPTION", which can only mean EVERY HUMAN being EVER! Sadly Calvinists do not like what their own hero says here, and try to fudge or explain it away!

Yes, I have often suspected that Calvin was an arminian.

HankD

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

Yes, I have often suspected that Calvin was an arminian.

HankD

Not so, he is being honest by saying what the Holy Bible actually teaches, rather than promoting some man-made theology!

 

[HankD]

Not so, he is being honest by saying what the Holy Bible actually teaches, rather than promoting some man-made theology!

give that man a bouquet of TULIPs!

HankD

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

give that man a bouquet of TULIPs!

HankD

 

[utilyan]

Sure it is all about God, no one is denying that. However, every human being from Adam till the last person on this earth, is "worthy" of only one thing, and that is "eternal punishment". No person is "worthy" of being with God! "There is none righteous, no, not one" (Romans 3:10). God owes us NOTHING! All that we do have is because of His abundant Mercy, Love, Compassion, Grace and Forgiveness!

No thats trying to shove human idea of justice which only leads to saying is you WORTHY to spit in God's face.

This is an error of FALSE HUMILITY.


1 john 4
18There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love.

There is no punishment that can top the SIN itself. Sin is not a perk.

It is better to burn in hell then to sin.

Someone who is not loyal to God would never get this. They are selfish thinking about themselves and their salvation.


"There is none righteous, no, not one" (Romans 3:10)

Is he quoting scripture or is he making up something brand new doctrine on the spot without the council of Jerusalem?

If he is quoting scripture then that context is what it is.

Cause I can quote the old testament where God says "Everyone is doing great" and then apply the same stupid logic to everyone in the entire world.



The entire point of Jesus death to PAY for you is so people would not enslave you to owe.

8Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law.


God has shown people deserve GREATER things then heaven when he let his son die for you.

As a statement, letting his son die destroys the notion that you are worthless.

You wouldn't throw your own kid in front of car to STOP THE CAR from hitting your GARBAGE CAN.

So the estimation of what a person is "worth" and what they "deserve" is not your judgement call, It is God's alone and it has already been made.

 

[Yeshua1]

No thats trying to shove human idea of justice which only leads to saying is you WORTHY to spit in God's face.

This is an error of FALSE HUMILITY.


1 john 4
18There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love.

There is no punishment that can top the SIN itself. Sin is not a perk.

It is better to burn in hell then to sin.

Someone who is not loyal to God would never get this. They are selfish thinking about themselves and their salvation.


"There is none righteous, no, not one" (Romans 3:10)

Is he quoting scripture or is he making up something brand new doctrine on the spot without the council of Jerusalem?

If he is quoting scripture then that context is what it is.

Cause I can quote the old testament where God says "Everyone is doing great" and then apply the same stupid logic to everyone in the entire world.



The entire point of Jesus death to PAY for you is so people would not enslave you to owe.

8Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law.


God has shown people deserve GREATER things then heaven when he let his son die for you.

As a statement, letting his son die destroys the notion that you are worthless.

You wouldn't throw your own kid in front of car to STOP THE CAR from hitting your GARBAGE CAN.

So the estimation of what a person is "worth" and what they "deserve" is not your judgement call, It is God's alone and it has already been made.

God loves His Covenant people in a different sense than the lost he created...

 

[utilyan]

God loves His Covenant people in a different sense than the lost he created...

God doesn't love the way lost folks do.

God's love is AGAPE. Kindness, love, compassion for the sake of kindness, love and compassion.

The defense is easy. The person who loves and cares about everyone. Evil people can't stand that person.

Unlike a person who is only focused on their own reward and consequence with an apathy towards the rest, the one who loves everyone can't be bargained with.

This is BASIC Christianity.

27“But I say to you who hear, love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. 29“Whoever hits you on the cheek, offer him the other also; and whoever takes away your coat, do not withhold your shirt from him either. 30“Give to everyone who asks of you, and whoever takes away what is yours, do not demand it back. 31“Treat others the same way you want them to treat you. 32“If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them. 33“If you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners do the same. 34“If you lend to those from whom you expect to receive, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners in order to receive back the same amount. 35“But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High; for He Himself is kind to ungrateful and evil men. 36“Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.

If I am a Calvinist following God's example, I don't love my enemies, I don't bless those that curse me at all, I definitely don't treat others how I want to be treated.

Following God's example I just say duck duck, goose. I flip a coin on who I love. I treat them like depraved filthy rags who are worthless until I give them a worth. "“If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you?" I definitely would only love those who love me and hate those who hate me.

We are instructed to be as merciful as God. In Calvinism case that is a joke. A random mercy not given to all.


When Jesus died and when Stephen died: 60Then falling on his knees, he cried out with a loud voice, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them!” Having said this, he fell asleep.

A Calvinist would never stick up for a "reprobate". I can tell a complete stranger that God loves them, but a Calvinist? They are just fine with anyone going to hell they don't even know if their own mother is elect or that if God loves anyone else.

Does God love me? Am I elect? You don't have a clue.

John 13

35 By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”

I know if your christian or just a fake. Fakes don't know who are elect. scripture says its not a mystery in fact obvious.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

If I am a Calvinist following God's example, I don't love my enemies, I don't bless those that curse me at all, I definitely don't treat others how I want to be treated.

Then you wouldn't be a very good Calvinist.

A Calvinist would never stick up for a "reprobate". I can tell a complete stranger that God loves them, but a Calvinist? They are just fine with anyone going to hell they don't even know if their own mother is elect or that if God loves anyone else.

Demonstrably false, since many of the most prolific evangelists are Calvinists or Reformed.

 

[Yeshua1]

God doesn't love the way lost folks do.

God's love is AGAPE. Kindness, love, compassion for the sake of kindness, love and compassion.

The defense is easy. The person who loves and cares about everyone. Evil people can't stand that person.

Unlike a person who is only focused on their own reward and consequence with an apathy towards the rest, the one who loves everyone can't be bargained with.

This is BASIC Christianity.

27“But I say to you who hear, love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. 29“Whoever hits you on the cheek, offer him the other also; and whoever takes away your coat, do not withhold your shirt from him either. 30“Give to everyone who asks of you, and whoever takes away what is yours, do not demand it back. 31“Treat others the same way you want them to treat you. 32“If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them. 33“If you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners do the same. 34“If you lend to those from whom you expect to receive, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners in order to receive back the same amount. 35“But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High; for He Himself is kind to ungrateful and evil men. 36“Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.

If I am a Calvinist following God's example, I don't love my enemies, I don't bless those that curse me at all, I definitely don't treat others how I want to be treated.

Following God's example I just say duck duck, goose. I flip a coin on who I love. I treat them like depraved filthy rags who are worthless until I give them a worth. "“If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you?" I definitely would only love those who love me and hate those who hate me.

We are instructed to be as merciful as God. In Calvinism case that is a joke. A random mercy not given to all.


When Jesus died and when Stephen died: 60Then falling on his knees, he cried out with a loud voice, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them!” Having said this, he fell asleep.

A Calvinist would never stick up for a "reprobate". I can tell a complete stranger that God loves them, but a Calvinist? They are just fine with anyone going to hell they don't even know if their own mother is elect or that if God loves anyone else.

Does God love me? Am I elect? You don't have a clue.

John 13

35 By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”

I know if your christian or just a fake. Fakes don't know who are elect. scripture says its not a mystery in fact obvious.

God loves His own children different than He loves the children of Satan, right?

 

[utilyan]

Then you wouldn't be a very good Calvinist.



Demonstrably false, since many of the most prolific evangelists are Calvinists or Reformed.

Does God love me?

 

[Yeshua1]

Does God love me?

Does he love Judas as much as me?