Does God love everyone?

[annsni]

There are instances where this is true no doubt but only in the minority of cases. It would seem that in every case where scripture is saying "all men" or the "whole world" Calvinist step up and claim that isn't true.
Here is something that Calvainist will deny;
Act 28:28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.
This verse above doesn't say all but it does say that the Gentiles will hear it. Calvinist will then say this doesn't mean every single Gentile. Your arguement over the word "All" is futile at best. If you stay with scripture you'd have to deny total depravity.
MB

Why would a Calvinist deny that the Gentiles will be saved? Are all Gentiles saved? No. But it doesn't say that at all here so I don't understand your argument.

 

[Allan]

I still can't get past the question, if God loved all without exception, why did he withhold the gospel from so many?

How can God desire that all come to repentance, yet make it impossible for them to do so by denying them the gospel?

I have difficulty grasping the concept that Jesus is the light of the world (John 1:9 "..which lighteth every man that comes into the world"), yet, during Jesus' earthly ministry, millions and millions of people were shut off from that light--a light confined only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

I can figure out only two answers to those questions:
1. God sent the gospel only to those whom he intended to save.
2. God saves people independently of the gospel, or of any knowledge of Jesus the Christ.

God reveals truth to all men everywhere, if they will believe those truths (no matter how small we think they are or great even) He will send the gospel to those where no gospel is. The Etheopian in Acts for example.

Secondly who said "millions and millions" were shut out. I read continuously where the gentiles sought out Jesus even though He was primarily here for them. He still ministered to them - and it was only to them that Jesus ever made the statements of 'great faith'. Those who did not recieve the telling of the gospel had already in their own hearts rejected the truths which God reveals of Himself to each and everyman through various means but always the truth they know comes directly from Himself.

However, not everyone whom God sends the gospel to gets saved either, so your #1 is not a true answer to the question.

The only real answer is that the gospel is the 'full or complete message' of God's saving grace given to all for the salvation of those whom God knows will believe and the assurence of damnation for those who reject His great Love. He is the light which spiritually reveals truth to all men everywhere - thus all men are commanded to repent in acknowledgment of their sins against God (which are revealed by God to them through various means - nature, conscience, men's laws, and His own word) whom they know will punish by death all those who do such things. Rom 1:18-32

 

[Allan]

Whoever among them would believe would be saved?Back to this whosoever busines again.It's not so nebulous and indefinite.Christ did not die for each and every peron who has,is,and shall live.He did not die for residents and future residents of perdition.The Lord does not love the denizens of that abode.

It is not indefinite, but specific - to everyone

Yes, Jesus did die for each and everyone. You can disagree but that is simply just your opinion.

Secondly, God does love the even the non-elect and the Reformers and Calvinists alike agree with me. You are the one out on your own theological limb who states God has not ever loved or has love for anyone but the elect. That is one of those 'tendencies' a few calvinists have that is not true to main stream historical Calvinism.

Double-speak gushes forth from you once more

And apparently so does your love for the brethren.

According to you Christ propitiated the wrath of His Father on behalf of every human being -- head-for-head.

Yes sir, I hold strictly with scripture on that. (1 John 2:2)

Yet this propitiation was not really a complete job since all are not redeemed

Yet it was completed and no one has stated otherwise. However, all were not redeemed at the moment of His death unless of course you believe you were born saved (as primitive Baptists due). The propitiation is only applied to man via faith (Rom 3:25)

Hey -- Propitiation is the satisfaction of the Father's wrath against certain sinners -- namely the elect alone.The Lord did not appease His Father's anger for everyone only to send a majority to eternal torment anyway.

Of course it is the satisfation of the Fathers wrath against SIN and to those by faith that receive it they are saved through that propitiation.

 

[ktn4eg]

Well, how about John 3:16
"For God so loved 'the world' that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."

It states that God 'so loved' - "the world". His usage of the term 'world' here is not select group of people as some falsely assume because he speaks of 'whosoever' which is a universal term regarding anyone of everyone (many reformers acknowlege this - even J. Calvin). Also in speaking of mankind on the whole the term world, when used by John referencing men, is always the lost sinful unregenerate. We see this specifically when John emphsises the term 'world' with a definate adjective such as 'whole' (whole world).
Everytime John uses the term 'whole world' it is in reference to sinfull and lost mankind. Not once ever in the entirety of scripture is the term 'world' used to describe God's people or the elect of God.

This is qualified by statements such as 'be not of the world', 'you are not of the world my children', 'greater is He that is in you than he that is in the world', God has called us 'out of the world', 'the world sits in darkness... ect, ect,..

So God loved all sinful and lost mankind in or after this manner - to send forth His Son that whoever among them would be believe He would save. Christ's came and died for them all otherwise God lied in John 3:16 that He so loved the world He sent His Son that whosoever (of the world) might be saved.

I agree and believe that God has a different type of love (general and specific) for different people. One type of love (being general) is that He desires all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of truth (1 Tim 2:4[-6]). - and His general love is nothing less than the sending of His Son both 'to and for' all - the propitiating. However not all will be redeemed through the propitiation of Christ Jesus toward mankind because the propitiaion is rececieved only by faith.(Rom 3:25). - the purpose of propitaition fulfilled. I would note that even in Historical Reformed traditions and in their creeds (WCF), they affirm God's common love toward all mankind though not in the same manner I have spelled out. Theirs is more of life, common blessings or goodness from God.

Since I'm sure you believe in His specific love I don't think I really need to elaborate on that subject.


PLEASE NOTE: The point about John Calvin IS NOT that you or anyone else follows J. Calvin but just simply making a point about one, according to Reformers and present day Calvinists alike, whom they (in the majority) agree he knew well the Reformed doctrines.


..

My brother Allan,

When you (or any other of my BB friends for that matter) specifically answer the questions that I have posed for you with regard to Judas Iscariot in my post, describing the kind, or the degree, or the level of love that God openly demonstrated for Judas Iscariot, then--and only then--will I attempt to answer those questions that you, my dear brother in Christ have posed to me.

Is that asking too much?

I would hope not.

Blessings to you and yours!

 

[preachinjesus]

How does He love those He hates?!

I don't ever find a place in Scripture where God hates people. Rather God's wrath and animous are stirred against sin and the acts of sin in people.

Benevolence is greater than hate. God is omnibenevolent.

 

[Lukasaurus]

Praise His redeeming love.

I am wondering if you praise God for His sovereign damnation as well?

 

[Rippon]

I am wondering if you praise God for His sovereign damnation as well?

Every authentic Christian should praise God for everything He does because everything He does is right and just!

BTW,Jonathan Edwards had a good sermon on The Justic Of God In The Judgment Of Sinners.

 

[Rippon]

I have a question for everyone.Does God love those whom He does not chastise?

 

[Marcia]

I still can't get past the question, if God loved all without exception, why did he withhold the gospel from so many?

How can God desire that all come to repentance, yet make it impossible for them to do so by denying them the gospel?

I have difficulty grasping the concept that Jesus is the light of the world (John 1:9 "..which lighteth every man that comes into the world"), yet, during Jesus' earthly ministry, millions and millions of people were shut off from that light--a light confined only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

I can figure out only two answers to those questions:
1. God sent the gospel only to those whom he intended to save.
2. God saves people independently of the gospel, or of any knowledge of Jesus the Christ.

All men deserve to go to hell; it is only because God is merciful that some are saved.

We don't have the answers to the questions above - what we do know is that God is a God of justice and mercy, and that is all we need to know. No one goes to hell unjustly.

 

[Marcia]

I don't ever find a place in Scripture where God hates people. Rather God's wrath and animous are stirred against sin and the acts of sin in people.

Benevolence is greater than hate. God is omnibenevolent.

What do you think of the scriptures posted in that excerpt I posted???

• Psalm 5:5, "The boastful shall not stand before Thine eyes; Thou dost hate all who do iniquity," ​
• Psalm 11:5, "The Lord tests the righteous and the wicked, and the one who loves violence His soul hates." ​
• Lev. 20:23, "Moreover, you shall not follow the customs of the nation which I shall drive out before you, for they did all these things, and therefore I have abhorred them." ​
• Prov. 6:16-19, "There are six things which the Lord hates, yes, seven which are an abomination to Him: 17 Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, 18 A heart that devises wicked plans, feet that run rapidly to evil,
  19 A false witness who utters lies, and one who spreads strife among brothers."​
• Hosea 9:15, "All their evil is at Gilgal; indeed, I came to hate them there! Because of the wickedness of their deeds I will drive them out of My house! I will love them no more; All their princes are rebels."​

 

[jcjordan]

If God doesn't hate some, why is it so great that He loves me? Isn't He just doing what He's supposed to do?
In a sense though, I do think He loves everyone to some extent through common grace, but he does show a special love to His people.

 

[Allan]

My brother Allan,

When you (or any other of my BB friends for that matter) specifically answer the questions that I have posed for you with regard to Judas Iscariot in my post, describing the kind, or the degree, or the level of love that God openly demonstrated for Judas Iscariot, then--and only then--will I attempt to answer those questions that you, my dear brother in Christ have posed to me.

Is that asking too much?

I would hope not.

Blessings to you and yours!

First, I never asked you to answer my post - I was responding to your question about love and Judas. Are you saying that Judas is not apart of the world?

Did not Jesus love his disciples (which included Judas)? - Yes
Did Jesus hate Judas? - No, not as far as scripture declares but loved him

Did Jesus not include Judas in everything He revealed to the disciples, and also in the sending of them to cast out demons, heal the sick, and preach the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand? - Yes, and to assume Judas did not do these things Christ commanded them is to bring something to the text it does not state in any fashion.

Jesus did for Judas all that He would do for everyman, but they still must choose life or death, submission or rebellion. Yes Judas was the son of perdition not because he had no choice in the matter and then be damned but because it was his choice and God used him in a way that would absolutely bring his plan to be.

 

[Allan]

If God doesn't hate some, why is it so great that He loves me? Isn't He just doing what He's supposed to do?
In a sense though, I do think He loves everyone to some extent through common grace, but he does show a special love to His people.

See, Cal's and non-cals can agree - we might disagree as to how far that common grace grace extends but in all, we do agree here.

 

[Allan]

What do you think of the scriptures posted in that excerpt I posted???

• Psalm 5:5, "The boastful shall not stand before Thine eyes; Thou dost hate all who do iniquity," ​
• Psalm 11:5, "The Lord tests the righteous and the wicked, and the one who loves violence His soul hates." ​
• Lev. 20:23, "Moreover, you shall not follow the customs of the nation which I shall drive out before you, for they did all these things, and therefore I have abhorred them." ​
• Prov. 6:16-19, "There are six things which the Lord hates, yes, seven which are an abomination to Him: 17 Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, 18 A heart that devises wicked plans, feet that run rapidly to evil,
  19 A false witness who utters lies, and one who spreads strife among brothers."​
• Hosea 9:15, "All their evil is at Gilgal; indeed, I came to hate them there! Because of the wickedness of their deeds I will drive them out of My house! I will love them no more; All their princes are rebels."​

I agree with you Marcia but one question for clarificaiton purposes:

Did God hate them before they were born or after they choose to continue in sin and wickedness?

IOW - when did God choose to give them over to their wickedness?

 

[Dr. Bob]

I am wondering if you praise God for His sovereign damnation as well?

ALL that God does is perfect and deserves my praise. You would NOT praise God for justice/judgment of unrepentant sinners?

"And God hath before the foundation of the world, foreordained some men to eternal life, through Jesus Christ, to the praise and glory of His grace; leaving the rest in their sin to their just condemnation, to the praise of His justice. " (from the oldest English Baptist Confession of Faith)

 

[Dr. Bob]

There's a better explanation, Bob. "God is a rewarder of them who diligently seek Him."

And just how does man "diligently seek Him" when the Bible clearly teaches "There are none that seek God"??

Man is incapable in nature to do one iota of "right", and must be given a new nature capable of seeking.

It is true THEN that God rewards those who seek. But He first seeks man and changes man and only then will (or CAN) man respond by seeking.

Gotta keep a sovereign God to first "act", and only THEN His elect to whom He gives faith and repentance will "re-act"

 

[ray Marshall]

I don't ever find a place in Scripture where God hates people. Rather God's wrath and animous are stirred against sin and the acts of sin in people.

Benevolence is greater than hate. God is omnibenevolent.

Well, GOD'S word says that Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
Three different times, that seems like a established witness that he does hate. That is what GOD has to say about the matter.

 

[webdog]

Well, GOD'S word says that Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
Three different times, that seems like a established witness that he does hate. That is what GOD has to say about the matter.

...yet we know from Scripture that hate does not mean the opposite of love, else John 3:16 would be a lie.

That verse is about nations, btw...

 

[webdog]

Well, GOD'S word says that Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
Three different times, that seems like a established witness that he does hate. That is what GOD has to say about the matter.

...yet we know from Scripture that hate does not mean the opposite of love, else John 3:16 would be a lie.

That verse is about nations, btw...

 

[webdog]

Well, GOD'S word says that Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
Three different times, that seems like a established witness that he does hate. That is what GOD has to say about the matter.

...yet we know from Scripture that hate does not mean the opposite of love, else John 3:16 would be a lie.

That verse is about nations, btw...