Does God love everyone?

[Tom Butler]

All men deserve to go to hell; it is only because God is merciful that some are saved.

We don't have the answers to the questions above - what we do know is that God is a God of justice and mercy, and that is all we need to know. No one goes to hell unjustly.

With this I agree. It is all that we need to know, but it does not follow that it is all that we can know. I believe that we can deduce some answers from Scripture, some of which is implied, and a lot of which is explicit.

 

[Allan]

Allan, I think we've been through this before but I just want to be sure I remember correctly. It seems to be your position that every human being has heard the gospel of Jesus Christ. That there is now no one living who will die without hearing the gospel of Jesus Christ. That seems to be the view in this post, and in earlier ones in other threads. Do I have it right? If so, can you explain how this can be so? Or do you accept this as a matter of faith?

Or do you draw this conclusion because of "God so loved the world..." and must have necessarily given the gospel to everyone in the world?

No brother, I do not believe every person in the world has heard the gospel.
I believe every person God has revealed certain truths to every person in the world and if they will believe what God has revealed in that ,will not God send forth the fulness of those truths (the gospel) to them who have believed? - like the Etheopian in Acts or the vast amounts of Missionary testimonies which can be heard and read about.

However, not everyone who hears the gospel message is going to believe it. Take America for example or those villages in missionary stories, where those some or many believe when they heard not all did. The gospel is one why God conveys His truth and is the fulness of all truth regarding sin, His righteousness and the judgment to come. But He also uses nature, the conscience, and laws to reveal His truths as well. Not through natural means becasue they are spiritually understood and therefore God Himself must reveal them as says Rom 1:19

 

[annsni]

Man, this turned into a very complex thread when all I was asking was if God loved everyone? I didn't mean does God SAVE everyone or a C/A argument but just love. What do the Scriptures say? Does God love everyone or does He only love some?? Again, not talking salvation or election - just love.

 

[Jim1999]

Ann, to answer your question you must first consider the essence of God. For starters, God is love. His very being is love. He is also just. His essence is just. He is also pure. As such He must of necessity turn His back on evil. So, we have a dichotomy within the full essence of God whch includes love and justice.

If we take the elements, the rain falls on the just and the unjust equally. The wind blows where it will. Is this just the order of the universe or does God control every whim and fancy?

Does God love the world? Sure He does. He said His creation was good and was well pleased, yet, due to the disobedience of one He applied death to all.

My father said he loved me and this was so even when he spanked me. Should God the Father be any different? So, even love is conditional.

In saying all this I am trying to say that God loves the world, but we must understand what flows from love in defining that love. If we can do this, we can say that God loves the whole world.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[webdog]

Man, this turned into a very complex thread when all I was asking was if God loved everyone? I didn't mean does God SAVE everyone or a C/A argument but just love. What do the Scriptures say? Does God love everyone or does He only love some?? Again, not talking salvation or election - just love.

What human being has not come from the world? The answer is yes, He does love everyone...so much that He sent His only Son into the world that whoever (of the world) believes will not perish but live forever.
"If the common sense makes all the sense, seek no other sense"

 

[annsni]

Yep - that's what I was thinking Jim and Webdog. I was just being lazy and not studying on my own - yet feeling a sense of ... I don't know ... ickiness at the idea of hearing a bunch of pagans saying "god loves everyone" (yeah, with a lower case g). In my heart I'm thinking "yeah - not the kind of love that accepts and allows everything" but then I'm wondering "does He REALLY love everyone??" Ya know?

 

[Rippon]

I have a question for everyone.Does God love those whom He does not chastise?

No one has attempted to answer this question of mine.

I'll add another: Does God love those who do not fear Him?

 

[ray Marshall]

That is not what scripture says. You are adding to the word of God.


Jhn 3:16 "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.


It says that God loved the world, but only those who believe will have eternal life. Simple.

"That whosoever believeth is past,present and future tense and it doesn't say, Believes.

At least in the good old King James 1611 edition that is what it says.

 

[Rippon]

All Scripture From TNIV

• Psalm 5:5, "The boastful shall not stand before Thine eyes; Thou dost hate all who do iniquity," ​
• Psalm 11:5, "The Lord tests the righteous and the wicked, and the one who loves violence His soul hates." ​
• Lev. 20:23, "Moreover, you shall not follow the customs of the nation which I shall drive out before you, for they did all these things, and therefore I have abhorred them." ​
• Prov. 6:16-19, "There are six things which the Lord hates, yes, seven which are an abomination to Him: 17 Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, 18 A heart that devises wicked plans, feet that run rapidly to evil,​
  
  
  19 A false witness who utters lies, and one who spreads strife among brothers."​
• Hosea 9:15, "All their evil is at Gilgal; indeed, I came to hate them there! Because of the wickedness of their deeds I will drive them out of My house! I will love them no more; All their princes are rebels."​

And what about :

Psalm 53:5 : But there they are,overwhelmed with dread,where there was nothing to dread.God scattered the bones of those who attacked you;you put them to shame,for God despised them.

Psalm 106:40 : Therefore the Lord was angry with his people and abhorred his inheritance.

Proverbs 3:32 : For the Lord detests the perverse but takes the upright into his confidence.

 

[Amy.G]

"That whosoever believeth is past,present and future tense and it doesn't say, Believes.

At least in the good old King James 1611 edition that is what it says.

What's your point?

 

[Amy.G]

And what about :

Psalm 53:5 : But there they are,overwhelmed with dread,where there was nothing to dread.God scattered the bones of those who attacked you;you put them to shame,for God despised them.

Psalm 106:40 : Therefore the Lord was angry with his people and abhorred his inheritance.

Proverbs 3:32 : For the Lord detests the perverse but takes the upright into his confidence.

It means that until we are born again, justified, saved....we are at enmity with God.
You are either right with God or you are His enemy.

Col 1:21 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled
Col 1:22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight--

 

[Tom Butler]

No brother, I do not believe every person in the world has heard the gospel.
I believe every person God has revealed certain truths to every person in the world and if they will believe what God has revealed in that ,will not God send forth the fulness of those truths (the gospel) to them who have believed? - like the Etheopian in Acts or the vast amounts of Missionary testimonies which can be heard and read about.

However, not everyone who hears the gospel message is going to believe it. Take America for example or those villages in missionary stories, where those some or many believe when they heard not all did. The gospel is one why God conveys His truth and is the fulness of all truth regarding sin, His righteousness and the judgment to come. But He also uses nature, the conscience, and laws to reveal His truths as well. Not through natural means becasue they are spiritually understood and therefore God Himself must reveal them as says Rom 1:19

Allan, thanks for the clarification. I do remember in another thread some time ago, that one poster insisted that some way, somehow, everybody was given the gospel because everybody deserved an opportunity to accept or reject Christ.

You stop short of that, I'm glad to see.

I agree that God reveals truth through nature, through spiritual revelation through conscience. I also agree that spiritual things, such as the gospel truth, are spiritually revealed. (I Cor 2:14) God has chosen to reveal the Son and to save people through the preaching of the gospel--by human beings. That means that nature, natural law and conscience are not sufficient in and of themselves.

When God sends the gospel to someone, it a demonstration of his special love and his sovereign grace--without any merit on our part. The Bible is filled with nations on whom God did not set his love in the way he did Israel. It is filled with nations whose people lived and died without hearing the gospel. This suggests to me that God has a discriminating love set upon his own.

 

[Allan]

When God sends the gospel to someone, it a demonstration of his special love and his sovereign grace--without any merit on our part. The Bible is filled with nations on whom God did not set his love in the way he did Israel. It is filled with nations whose people lived and died without hearing the gospel. This suggests to me that God has a discriminating love set upon his own.

Actaully Tom, God did not send His message to them in the same manner that God sent it to Israel but He did send that message He gave to Israel to them. It was delivered or given to the other nations through Israel as God had planned. All those nations knew of their God, what their God considered sin, and that He would be the judge. These other nations fear God but chose not to believe in Him. It was not a message to be kept to themselves or for themselves only. (otherwise those gentiles who did believe and came into the Jewish religion/salvation would have to be excluded)

Israel was to be the proclaimer of that 'special' message to the other nations.

Also, I do agree that God gave His special revelation to Israel even the gospel itself. But I must declare that just because God sends the gospel message to someone does not in any manner necessitate that they will respond in the possitive to it. For example - God sent the gospel to all the Jews (the nation of Israel) but not all received it, not even half of them recieved it. Another good example is King Aggripa who Paul, at his own trial, preached the gospel TO him but he did not believe though he was almost persuaded.

 

[Rippon]

All Scripture From TNIV

When God sends the gospel to someone, it a demonstration of his special love and his sovereign grace--

I just want to clarify Tom.The Lord obviously sends the Gospel to some who reject it.However,God's special love and discriminating sovereign grace is demonstrated when He spiritually resurrects the ones He is pleased to do so.

It is also God's pleasure to send the Gospel to some who will be hardened against it.That furthers their condemnation.That is God's will as much as it it His will to save others.

2 Corinthians 2:15,16 : For we are to God the pleasing aroma of Christ among those who are being saved and those who are perishing.To the one we are an aroma that brings death;to the other,an aroma that brings life.And who is equal to such a task?

 

[Allan]

Just want to clarify something else - God's grace is not discriminating. It is that grace which sent forth God's Son because He loved the world.

 

[Rippon]

Just want to clarify something else - God's grace is not discriminating. It is that grace which sent forth God's Son because He loved the world.

God's grace is most emphatically discriminating!It certainly isn't non-discriminatory.There is no such thing as general grace.God's grace is selective.It is salvific.The so-called "common grace" theory is billed as general -- but it's not even grace.Grace is particular and saving.God's grace did not and was not designed to save each and every person who was,is, and shall live on the earth.

 

[Allan]

God's grace is most emphatically discriminating!It certainly isn't non-discriminatory.There is no such thing as general grace.God's grace is selective.It is salvific.The so-called "common grace" theory is billed as general -- but it's not even grace.Grace is particular and saving.God's grace did not was not not designed to save each and every person who was,is, and shall live on the earth.

Then again, you not only disagree with the historic Reformed position that God does indeed have a love all men (though it is not in the same manner as His special love), but now you declare that you disagree with them on common grace from which that 'love' is determined to flow from!

You seem to be voicing more and more your theological departure from the mainstream Reformed Position to seemly affirming certain 'tendencies' that are in great error.

I stand both with the non-cals and Reformers on this one. That 'offer' to all men was designed to be an honest and genuine offer to all men everywhere for their salvation to all those who will believe (this includes the non-elect)- even if you wont believe those of your own theological beliefs, and scripture to boot.

 

[Rippon]

Then again, you not only disagree with the historic Reformed position that God does indeed have a love all men (though it is not in the same manner as His special love), but now you declare that you disagree with them on common grace from which that 'love' is determined to flow from!

O come off it.A while back you had agreed with me about Common grace not being real grace.Now you have changed your mind.

I'm not so sure how "common" a view it has been in Reformed circles through the centuries that Calvinists have held that God loves all people.

Also,I don't think that those Reformed folks who hold to CG think that God's special love has anything to do with it.

You seem to be voicing more and more your theological departure from the mainstream Reformed Position to seemly affirming certain 'tendencies' that are in great error.

Well,since you deny some central Calvinistic doctrines we would say that you are in great error.How do ya' like them apples?

I stand both with the non-cals and Reformers on this one. That 'offer' to all men was designed to be an honest and genuine offer to all men everywhere for their salvation to all those who will believe (this includes the non-elect)- even if you wont believe those of your own theological beliefs, and scripture to boot.

You're changing the subject here.We were not discussing "The Offer".But since you brought it up :God,and certainly ministers, do not "offer" grace.They hold forth the claims of Christ through a presentation of the Gospel.And they do that in an indiscriminate manner.They freely declare,command and invite sinners.They present the law and Gospel without restriction.

 

[Allan]

O come off it.A while back you had agreed with me about Common grace not being real grace.Now you have changed your mind.

I don't recall saying that common grace isn't real grace, maybe I did. Do you remember where the discussion was so I can see the context?

Well,since you deny some central Calvinistic doctrines we would say that you are in great error.How do ya' like them apples?

They taste great, but your view is going the 'other' direction from mine and Reformed thought here.

You're changing the subject here.We were not discussing "The Offer".But since you brought it up :God,and certainly ministers, do not "offer" grace.They hold forth the claims of Christ through a presentation of the Gospel.And they do that in an indiscriminate manner.They freely declare,command and invite sinners.They present the law and Gospel without restriction.

No, I am maintianing the discussion since the 'offer' of God to all men (according to the Westminister Standard) is from God to both the elect and non-elect alike. The offer is bound up in the fact that God has a love for all men everywhere whom He desires to save and come to the knowledge of truth.

J.I. Packer agrees, as does Calvin, John Howe, The Pesby's and numerous others of the Reformed tradition. As seen Here .

 

[Tom Butler]

I just want to clarify Tom.The Lord obviously sends the Gospel to some who reject it.However,God's special love and discriminating sovereign grace is demonstrated when He spiritually resurrects the ones He is pleased to do so.

It is also God's pleasure to send the Gospel to some who will be hardened against it.That furthers their condemnation.That is God's will as much as it it His will to save others.

2 Corinthians 2:15,16 : For we are to God the pleasing aroma of Christ among those who are being saved and those who are perishing.To the one we are an aroma that brings death;to the other,an aroma that brings life.And who is equal to such a task?

Thanks for the clarification. That's what I meant to say.