Does God Save Children Apart From their Faith In Jesus?

[percho]

Spurgeon has the same problem we have been reading about, he outright dismisses sola fide in favor of an extrabiblical hope of salvation. EWT, that is why there can only be the two views, Aaron's or mine. There is NO salvation but by grace through faith!

We don't read that Abraham was given grace and was credited with righteousness, he believed.

Why did he believe?

But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

Was Abraham a sheep.

Did God hear Abram call out to him or did Abram hear God call him?

 

[Iconoclast]

Yes and I've also been bitten by an angry baby. According to your sense of justice, those little biters should be hauled off to jail and receive the maximum sentence for biting..I mean since they're so accountable for everything they do. :BangHead:

So...amy g ...does that mean that you did not obey God's command to spank your children...because they were not accountable...it was not sinful rebellion..
Biting was okay....and you should not judge that it needed to be corrected??

 

[webdog]

So...amy g ...does that mean that you did not obey God's command to spank your children...because they were not accountable...it was not sinful rebellion..
Biting was okay....and you should not judge that it needed to be corrected??

What parent in their right mind spanks a baby?!?

Unbelievable the depths we sink to in order to hold onto that which is false...

 

[webdog]

Why did he believe?

But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

Was Abraham a sheep.

Did God hear Abram call out to him or did Abram hear God call him?

Tell me you are not putting an OT passage into context using a NT one!

Go a little further in your "proof text"

 

[Iconoclast]

I believe we've been over this already

Not sure why Christ having a sin nature would be reprehensible...He was 100% human in like manner we are, as you agree. Note...He was human as WE are, not that we are human is He was. He was subjected to the curse. The difference with Him compared to us is He is also God, able to be the only human with a sin nature to never sin. Just having a sin nature doesn't make one a sinner, nor spiritually dead. I still have this nature and I'm quite alive spiritually! The sin nature is simply the flesh, humanity subject to pain, death and the curse as a whole.

It is reprehensible...because it is [snip-inflammatory], Your turning from truth leads you to more error and a [snip-inflammatory] view of Jesus person and work.
Those who follow your error here...[snip-inflammatory] are not far behind.
The historic faith has stood the test of time for a reason. Your crusade against the grace of God is blinding you to clear truth...imo.

What is your expression....."we have covered this before"...next !

Well next does not cover it when you and winman post horrible ideas about Jesus. No orthodox believer posts these ideas....
You really need to examine what you are about with this. You are twisting and re-defining the faith once delivered to the saints...

I cannot say this in any positive fashion. I am not speaking about any of you as a personal statement about you as people....but this theology is horrendous and getting worse.....you keep repeating the error over and over to where you somehow think it will become true...it will not.
The error remains error......free at last and aaron are trying to reason it out and put out the theological fire before it burns the whole building down.
every response they have offered is countering a [snip-inflammatory] on this thread...it is pathetic...others are not responding because they no doubt are so repulsed by these manifold heresies, that they cannot even bear to read them any more.

What parent in their right mind spanks a baby?!?

Unbelievable the depths we sink to in order to hold onto that which is false...

A parent who does not spank their children does not love them..in fact Solomon says they hate the child.....but I know WD...you are wiser than Solomon, and the Apostle Paul....good thing you are here to correct the scriptures for us!

Proverbs 13:24
He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes.

Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him.

68.Proverbs 23:13
Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die.
Proverbs 23:12-14 (in Context) Proverbs 23 (Whole Chapter)
69.Proverbs 23:14
Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.
Proverbs 23:13-15 (in Context) Proverbs 23 (Whole Chapter)

 

[Winman]

Give me a break Iconoclast, I clearly said Jesus DID NOT have a sin nature. I said Jesus came in the flesh and was tempted in all points as we are, YET WITHOUT SIN. Don't misrepresent me.

But I do not believe we are born dead in sin.

Eze 16:20 Moreover thou hast taken thy sons and daughters, whom thou hast borne unto me, and these hast thou sacrificed unto them to be devoured. Is this of thy whoredoms a small matter,
21 That thou has slain my children, and delivered them to cause them to pass through the fire for them?

As you see here, God says children are borne "unto me" (God) in vs 20. And in vs. 21 he calls these infants "my children".

Children are not born children of the devil as many here teach.

I do not believe children are born spiritually dead, separated from God. Only when they mature enough to understand right from wrong and willfully sin is sin accounted to them. Until that time they belong to God.

I am not saying children do not do wrong, they do, but they are not held accountable until they know between good and evil.

 

[freeatlast]

Give me a break Iconoclast, I clearly said Jesus DID NOT have a sin nature. I said Jesus came in the flesh and was tempted in all points as we are, YET WITHOUT SIN. Don't misrepresent me.

But I do not believe we are born dead in sin.

Eze 16:20 Moreover thou hast taken thy sons and daughters, whom thou hast borne unto me, and these hast thou sacrificed unto them to be devoured. Is this of thy whoredoms a small matter,
21 That thou has slain my children, and delivered them to cause them to pass through the fire for them?

As you see here, God says children are borne "unto me" (God) in vs 20. And in vs. 21 he calls these infants "my children".

Children are not born children of the devil as many here teach.

I do not believe children are born spiritually dead, separated from God. Only when they mature enough to understand right from wrong and willfully sin is sin accounted to them. Until that time they belong to God.

I am not saying children do not do wrong, they do, but they are not held accountable until they know between good and evil.

I assume you would also agree that they know the difference between right and wrong at a very young age and they would have some understanding within the first year. So by your beliefs I assume you would agree they would be lost at that time?

 

[Iconoclast]

Mis -represent you??? hardly..I just read your post....full of error and evil speaking....



Here is your post winman...around post 143 I believe you said this:

I do not believe we are born with a sin nature, although I believe every person soon develops one.

Here is the beginning of your error, to which you add your unbiblical philosophy to it,


The word "nature" means our behavior as developed by habit, not instinct.

Unbiblical completely...I offered you the teaching given directly from a greek teacher, which you declared you need no greek expert to explain the scripture to you!


Further, the scriptures clearly teach that Jesus had the same "nature" as us. (Heb 2:16-18)


We have a nature that is bound by sin....Jesus did not...to suggest He did is heretical and vile

Heb 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

Jesus took upon Himself a body of flesh and blood because the seed of Abraham had flesh and blood. This verse is a proof text for definate atonement


17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

Jesus had the same nature as us, if we have a sin nature, then so did Jesus. I refuse to believe this.

We have a sin nature.....Jesus did not....that is why he was supernaturally conceived ...so he could not be defiled by Adams sin.

What you should refuse to believe is what you and others post suggesting Jesus was or could in anyway be defiled.



I think it is more accurate and scriptural to say we are born with a "temptation nature".

You might "think that".....but it is not scriptural to say that.At this point your error and that of Webdog leaves you with no where else to go, but to invent a novelty, or try to force a verse out of context to fit your new "thought"


We are born flesh with lusts and desires that tempt us to sin. But temptation is not sin as explained in James 1:14-15. Only when a man obeys his fleshly lusts does he sin. Jesus was tempted in all points as we are, but he never obeyed these lusts when it would have caused him to sin. (Heb 4:15)

This is the only thing you got right.

I do believe once we obey our lusts and sin it can become a controlling habit, so we develop a sin nature. But we are not born that way.

This is why you error for the most part...this again is completely unbiblical and a denial of the verses you rejected when offered the other day.

 

[Robert Snow]

You are twisting and re-defining the faith once delivered to the saints...

This is hilarious coming from someone steeped in Calvinism as deeply as you. :laugh:

 

[Iconoclast]

This is hilarious coming from someone steeped in Calvinism as deeply as you. :laugh:

What is hilarious is I have never even seen a post where you profess to know God. You just say something negative about calvinism each post.
Do you have a profession of faith? Care to speak about it?

I asked you several times for a scriptural imput on several threads ,and quite hilariously you go silent. Are you ashamed of whatever you believe?

You think you have truth...I am speaking of scriptural truth? I am fairly certain that you are a bit"light on truth"...as you never have posted anything resembling a solid scriptural position on anything that I have seen.

Feel free to show us where we are in error.
Or do you intend to try and stand aloof like Benjamin,....as everything and everyone seems to be a"waste of his time".....as he seems to only be impressed with himself and his philosophy...and just thinks that by being nasty to everyone,somehow his "thoughts" will enlighten the world.
Robert Snow.....other than sarcastic comments...[do not think that is a spiritual gift] what do you have on any topic?

Robert here is your post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iconoclast
You are twisting and re-defining the faith once delivered to the saints...

This is hilarious coming from someone steeped in Calvinism as deeply as you.

You might not like or agree with what I post, but it is quite in line with the faith once delivered to the saints. If anything I must work at giving a stronger account of so great a salvation. can you say the same for whatever it is you believe???
I have no real idea what you believe...so when i see you ridicule the historic faith of many believers it leaves me to consider where you stand in reference to truth. Not looking so good so far. Can you at least man -up and take a stand...for anything???? Jesus, salvation, heaven, end times???? Anything???