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Does God Save Children Apart From their Faith In Jesus?

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Winman

Active Member
Aaron said:
If your ignorance of infants isn't due to inexperience, it must be because of the density of your skulls.
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I disagree with you, and I have a little experience with kids, but only a little.

I have EIGHT children. If I add up their aggregate ages it equals 177 years of experience with children.

How 'bout you?

Oh, and I'm not including my grandchildren!
 
Benjamin

Benjamin

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Originally Posted by Benjamin http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=1723662#post1723662
How much faith does an innocent infant have to have to receive the gift of grace from a Loving and Merciful God? I think the necessary justifications through faith would be quite simplistic and such a requirement which comes from love of truth easily embraced by an infant.
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Concerning your response that is a totally unfounded accusation toward my belief system and the forthcoming juvenile lecture tactics...

freeatlast said:
A belief that stems from total emotional values with no scriptural support.
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Those kinds of statements only goes to prove you’re debate practices are simply full of pompous rhetorical mud…


How much faith (Mat 11:30) does an innocent infant (Luke 18:15-17) have to have to receive the gift of grace (Eph 2:8) from a Loving (1John 3:16, 17) and Merciful God (Psalms 116:5)? I think the necessary justifications (Deut 32:4) through faith (Luke 7:50, Rom 1:20) would be quite simplistic (Rom 16:18) and such a requirement (Act 16:31) which comes from love of truth (1Th 2:13) easily embraced (Luke 18:17) by an infant.

Open your eyes a little wider and you might percieve the scriptural support rather than make the ignorant accusations.
 
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freeatlast

New Member
Winman said:
Children are born with a temptation nature. When they see something, they WANT it. We have to teach a child not to take every cookie on the plate and share with his family.

The scriptures say our flesh LUSTS against our spirit. It does not make us sin, but it tempts us to sin. When we get angry, the flesh wants to strike another person, or even kill a person. But we do not have to obey our fleshly desires. When we see something we like, the flesh wants to steal it. But we do not have to obey and steal.

Let me ask you a question, is a person born a drug addict? NO. A person first begins to take drugs, and then becomes addicted. Smoking is the same, no one is born with a cigarette in their mouth. The first time to try to smoke you will cough and choke. But it you continue to smoke you will become addicted and it will be your "nature" to smoke. This applies to many things, we all hunger. Hunger is not wrong, but if we do not control it we can become addicted to eating and become obese. This can create real health problems.

The scriptures say God cannot be tempted with evil.

James 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

But Jesus could be tempted. He inherited this "temptation nature" from his mother Mary through her flesh.

Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

Jesus felt temptation. After he fasted for 40 days he was very hungry. He wanted to eat just like we do, and this is why the devil tempted Jesus to turn stones to bread.

Luke 4:1 And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness,
2 Being forty days tempted of the devil. And in those days he did eat nothing: and when they were ended, he afterward hungered.
3 And the devil said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, command this stone that it be made bread.

The devil knew Jesus felt temptation, that is why he tempted Jesus to turn the stones to bread. He was trying to attack Jesus's weakness. But Jesus did not obey this temptation and did not sin.

This temptation nature was before the fall. Eve was tempted by the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Gen 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

Adam and Eve were made flesh. They had lusts and desires. It is these lusts and desires that Satan attacked. He told Eve she would be like God, this appeals to the pride. The tree looked good to eat, this appeals to the appetite.

The problem is people cannot distinguish between temptation and sin. Eve was tempted by the fruit on the tree of knowledge of good and evil, but if she would have resisted and walked away, she would not have sinned. It is when she obeyed these lusts in opposition to God's command that she sinned.
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Total hog wash. :rolleyes:
 
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freeatlast

New Member
Benjamin said:
Concerning your response that is a totally unfounded accusation toward my belief system and the forthcoming juvenile lecture tactics...



Those kinds of statements only goes to prove you’re debate practices are simply full of pompous rhetorical mud…


How much faith (Mat 11:30) does an innocent infant (Luke 18:15-17) have to have to receive the gift of grace (Eph 2:8) from a Loving (1John 3:16, 17) and Merciful God (Psalms 116:5)? I think the necessary justifications (Deut 32:4) through faith (Luke 7:50, Rom 1:20) would be quite simplistic (Rom 16:18) and such a requirement (Act 16:31) which comes from love of truth (1Th 2:13) easily embraced (Luke 18:17) by an infant.

Open your eyes a little wider and you might percieve the scriptural support rather than make the ignorant accusations.
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That is nothing but emotional belief. There is no scripture to support your view as scripture never deals with the topic which means you are adding to scripture.
 
W

Winman

Active Member
freeatlast said:
Total hog wash. :rolleyes:
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Explain why it is hogwash. Anybody can say that, but you present not one word of scripture to refute it. I on the other hand have presented scripture that supports my view.

Perhaps you are correct, who knows? Present evidence that refutes me. Show scripture that supports your view.

I guarantee if I believe your view unscriptural I will present scripture that refutes it.
 
W

Winman

Active Member
freeatlast said:
That is nothing but emotional belief. There is no scripture to support your view as scripture never deals with the topic which means you are adding to scripture.
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But scripture does support that God justly does not hold little children accountable.

Jon 4:10 Then said the LORD, Thou hast had pity on the gourd, for the which thou hast not laboured, neither madest it grow; which came up in a night, and perished in a night:
11 And should not I spare Ninevah, that great city, wherein are more than sixscore thousand persons that cannot discern between their right hand and their left hand; and also much cattle?

You hear some here say God does not have to spare any person, as all are wicked sinners, but that is not what God said. He asked a rhetorical question that demands a YES answer, asking SHOULD NOT I spare Ninevah?

God felt a responsibility to save Ninevah, there was a reason based on his justice that demanded it.

Then God explains why he SHOULD spare Ninevah, because it has 120,000 small children who cannot tell their right hand from their left hand. This could not possibly be speaking of adults but little children only.

And notice God also mentioned cattle. Why? Because God is comparing these children to cattle who have no concept of sin.

God also implies that children are his creation in vs. 10. He created them, he made them grow.

God feels responsibility toward his creation and does not punish persons unjustly.
 
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percho

Well-Known Member
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webdog said:
To be honest, I don't know what you are trying to get at. Are you denying spiritual death?
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In Blue Letter Bible web site there are eleven English translations of the word of God. ?translations? Some may not be a translation.

Entered in the search function,"spiritual death".

The only ? translation that came up with verses was New Living Translation.
Rom. 7:10 and 2 Cor. 7:10.

Would you care to check the Greek of either?

You will die and the life that you have that is in Christ you will receive when he returns. You have the assurance of this through the earnest of the Spirit.
 
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percho

Well-Known Member
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freeatlast said:
Then we should not only support abortion but we should promote it.
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Or put another way. We had a missionary that had been in Japan at our church speaking of the different mind set they have toward God than what we have and how hard it is to get them out of Buddhism. He was telling us that in fifty years 300 million of them would be in Hell.

The first thought that went through my mind because the age of accountability had come up around this time was how many did we save by dropping two atomic bombs.

Age of accountability?
 
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freeatlast

New Member
Benjamin said:
[/FONT]

Your opinion is rhetorical and has no logical value...so it means squat to me.



More ignorance, not worth my time!
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If you are seeking logic then perhaps you might want to seek some philosopher. I am only going on what the scriptures teach without adding to them like you want to do.
 
webdog

webdog

Active Member
Site Supporter
Earth said:
has anyone read what Spurgeon said about it?

http://www.spurgeon.org/sermons/0411.htm
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Spurgeon has the same problem we have been reading about, he outright dismisses sola fide in favor of an extrabiblical hope of salvation. EWT, that is why there can only be the two views, Aaron's or mine. There is NO salvation but by grace through faith!

We don't read that Abraham was given grace and was credited with righteousness, he believed.
 
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freeatlast

New Member
Winman said:
Explain why it is hogwash. Anybody can say that, but you present not one word of scripture to refute it. I on the other hand have presented scripture that supports my view.

Perhaps you are correct, who knows? Present evidence that refutes me. Show scripture that supports your view.

I guarantee if I believe your view unscriptural I will present scripture that refutes it.
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As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one
 
webdog

webdog

Active Member
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freeatlast said:
If you are seeking logic then perhaps you might want to seek some philosopher. I am only going on what the scriptures teach without adding to them like you want to do.
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Based on this we can gather you believe the scriptures to be illogical.
 
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