Does Love Require Free Will?

[The Biblicist]

NIV 1 Timothy 1:5 The goal of this command is love, which comes from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.

Paul pinpoints the whole problem of your post. The kind of love God expects comes from a "pure heart and a good conscience" which no fallen man has. Instead, their heart is corrupt and their conscience is defiled by sin. You must start where the Bible starts with fallen man, and Jesus makes it very clear that it is only a "good tree" (heart) that can bring forth "good fruit" but an "evil tree" CANNOT bring forth good fruit. In the very same text (Mat. 12) he describes their condition as "being evil" not merely doing evil, as they do evil because their heart is evil.

The question I want to look at is whether the type of giving, sacrificial love which God wants to characterize our lives requires free will. The Bible does not address this question directly. So, first I will offer two analogies from our experience of love, and then I will offer some Biblical evidence, all of which seems to suggest that love does in fact require free will.

The Bible does address this MANY times and ALWAYS in the negative. John 3:19-20 addresses it directly. Romans 8:7-8 addresses it directly. Romans 3:9-11 addresses it directly. Fallen man has no ability to love God, to please God, to obey God, to come to God (Jn. 6:44).

Two Suitors

Imagine two different young men, each of whom is attracted to a young lady. These two men employ very different strategies.

The first young man watches the girl he is interested in and learns some of her habits, including the path she often takes when walking home. One night he hides in a woody area along the path. As she walks by, he leaps out, grabs her, and drags her into the woods where he puts a knife to her throat.

The second young man also watches the girl he is interested in and learns some of her habits. He begins to try to start conversations about things she likes. He sends her flowers that are her favorite color. He then works up the courage to ask her to dinner at a restaurant that serves her favorite type of food.

Unless the young lady in question is a martial arts expert or is carrying a weapon, the first young man will almost certainly get something from her that he wants. But will he get her love? Of course, not.

The second young man is not guaranteed success. No matter how loving and attractive his advances, the girl may very well turn him down. The young man is risking his heart being hurt. But if she does accept him, he may very well win her love.

These are foolish analogies for many reasons. First, it reveals you lack of understanding of the fallen nature. Second it reveals your lack of understanding of Biblical regeneration. Regeneration is nothing less than creating a new moral inclination within the darkened heart - an inclination that delights in righteousness (Rom. 7:21) rather than in darkness (Jn. 3:19-20). Faith in the gospel is simply the consequence of a newly created "want to" for the things of God.

Finally, both of your illustrations demonstrate you don't understand that the fallen human heart is so irreversably adverse to God and the things of God that the only possible solution is for God to give a "new" heart as the old heart will NEVER submit, love, or choose God (Deut. 5:29; 29:5; Ezek. 36:26-27)

All your texts involve Christ and those already born again. Thus you have no proof at all.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Is this an accurate description of what Calvinists generally believe?

It will depend on how one defines love.
The Bible tells us that God is good to all, and His tender mercies are over all His works (Psalm 145:9).
God does not take pleasure in the death of the wicked (Ezekiel 18:23).
God makes His sun rise on the evil as well as the good, and sends rain upon the just and unjust (Matthew 5:45).
He is kind to the unthankful and evil (Luke 6:35).
The Lord Jesus had compassion upon the multitudes (Matthew 9:36), healed the sick among them, taught them and fed them (Matthew 14:14-21).

The word 'love' is not mentioned in any of those texts, but if you think that the things described constitute love, then you will believe that God loves everyone.

However, we read that, 'Jesus knew that His hour had come that He should depart from this world to the Father, having loved His own who were in the world, He loved them to the end' (or '...to the uttermost.' John 13:1).

 

[The Biblicist]

Is this an accurate description of what Calvinists generally believe?

The Bible speaks of God hating certain individuals (Esau, Pharaoh) in the context of redemptive love or the "mercy" of God (Rom.9). The Psalmist says that God hates all "workers" of iniquity and not merely their works. So to say that God redemptively loves all fallen humans equally is simply not true. Redemptive love is found only "in Christ" whereas the wrath of God is presently abiding upon all outside of Christ (Jn. 3:36; Eph. 2:2-3). Those chosen "in him" before the foundation of the world are objects of that redemptive love (Eph. 1:4) and every single one are effectually called (Rom. 8:28) according to his "purpose" which is effectually administered to them unto glorification (Rom. 8:29-31) as the "elect" of God (Rom. 8:33).

Nothing prevents the worst sinner from coming to Christ for salvation but their own refusal (Acts 7:51) and nothing but God's mercy and grace can explain any sinner who does come to Christ (Jn. 6:44). The elect are unknown to all but God but are made known to us by repentance and faith in the gospel. We are always victorious whenever we share the gospel as the gospel is used to condemn the unrepentant and used by God to save the elect (2 Cor.2:14-15). None can be saved apart from the gospel as God has chosen and ordained the elect to be saved through the preaching of the gospel.

 

[agedman]

...

Nothing prevents the worst sinner from coming to Christ for salvation but their own refusal (Acts 7:51) and nothing but God's mercy and grace can explain any sinner who does come to Christ (Jn. 6:44). The elect are unknown to all but God but are made known to us by repentance and faith in the gospel. We are always victorious whenever we share the gospel as the gospel is used to condemn the unrepentant and used by God to save the elect (2 Cor.2:14-15). None can be saved apart from the gospel as God has chosen and ordained the elect to be saved through the preaching of the gospel.

The above statement is verified by John 1.
Only those that do not turn from the light are given the power to become the sons of God.

Those that turn from the light are not given such a gift.

Being a living soul is granted by the unmerited favor of God, not gained by human effort, rather uniquely The Father granting that gift of faith, so that not a single person may exalt them self by proclaiming the ability to attain that which the Scriptures clearly declare is humanly unattainable.

 

[Yeshua1]

Everything related to obeying God requires free will. We have the ability to choose (free will) whichever path we so desire.

The problem is that NONE of those paths lead to Christ, if we are just exewrxing our "free will", as it is under bondage to sin and the flesh!

 

[Mark Corbett]

The word 'love' is not mentioned in any of those texts, but if you think that the things described constitute love, then you will believe that God loves everyone.

John Piper is one of my favorite preachers, and the late John Stott one of my favorite Bible expositors, and Wayne Grudem one of my favorite theologians, and TGC one of my favorite web sites. When I say these people/sites are among "my favorites", I mean that I thank God for the way they have helped me and help many others. Yet, I am not a Calvinist. I say this because I don't want anyone to misinterpret my negative view of Calvinism as being a negative view of people who believe Calvinism.

One of the many problems I see is that I don't understand how under Calvinism God can be said to truly love any other than the elect. Martin mentioned some things which God does for all people in this current age. Yet to me, this falls far short of love.

Imagine that 20 people were drowning in the ocean. It was a bright sunny day, so in addition to drowning, they were suffering sunburns. Now let's say a person came along in a boat and offered all of them sun block. In addition to the sun block, he pulled 10 of them into his boat. The other 10 he left to drown, but at least while drowning they would not have a sunburn.

I feel like this is the picture I get from the Calvinist view of God. He is helping everyone in relatively small ways in this life, and I sure am thankful for that. But he is only giving some of the people the help they need the most. It doesn't seem loving. Or gracious. Or good. It doesn't seem anything at all like the God I read about in the Bible.

 

[agedman]

Again, I will write what I have posted before in other threads that run into this area.

First, there seems to run a certain group of exclusionary folks who want to limit the blood of the cross to impact only those few redeemed of the ages. I don't consider the apostles supported this view, especially John

Second, there is a group of us that do recognize the pattern(s) of the blood sacrifice of the OT and the testimony especially of John that clearly declares the love and blood were and are for all.

It remains that salvation is not matter of not the efficiency or even the application of the blood, but the heart of belief. Those that believe are not condemned, those that do no the believe are condemned already. God alone gives that ability to believe (John 1)

John states clearly and very specifffically that the cross was not just for the redeemed but the whole world. (John 3, 1 John)

More often, those who would limit the cross would do so attempting to say in some manner John used hyperbole, but the only occasions of the hyperbole use were not Johns words, but those quotes he used from the unredeemed who would run to any means to stir up people to their view be it hyperbole or down right deceit.

The problem isn't Calvin or even Calvinistic thinking, it is with those who mistreat the Scriptures by either inclusion or exclusion in matters of faith.

One can embrace the Doctrines of Grace and still continue to acknowledge full open agreement with what John wrote.
1My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; 2and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world. (1 John)

 

[Martin Marprelate]

I feel like this is the picture I get from the Calvinist view of God. He is helping everyone in relatively small ways in this life, and I sure am thankful for that. But he is only giving some of the people the help they need the most. It doesn't seem loving. Or gracious. Or good. It doesn't seem anything at all like the God I read about in the Bible.

I think you ought to stop proclaiming what you think God ought to be like, and concentrate upon what He is like. I think you should read Romans 9:19-29.
The problem with the Pelagian God is that he doesn't love anyone enough to save them. He throws (to continue your analogy) a few lifeboats into the sea and then waits to see who climbs onto one. I thank God that He did not merely offer me salvation and then wait to see what I would do about it, but He saved me. I thank God every day for irresistible grace.-- no hope for any of us without it.

 

[Mark Corbett]

The problem with the Pelagian God is that he doesn't love anyone enough to save them.

You're assuming I believe something that I don't believe. Nor do I know of any evangelical non-Calvinist who believes it. I believe God loves EVERYONE enough to save them, and does indeed save many, specifically "whoever believes in Him" (John 3:16). He knew that many would believe. He is in fact achieving His goal of winning people from every tribe, nation, and language.

 

[agedman]

You're assuming I believe something that I don't believe. Nor do I know of any evangelical non-Calvinist who believes it. I believe God loves EVERYONE enough to save them, and does indeed save many, specifically "whoever believes in Him" (John 3:16). He knew that many would believe. He is in fact achieving His goal of winning people from every tribe, nation, and language.

Actually, there is a evangelical view that embraces both the arminian and peligian views.

More often it is exposed by the persons view of the seed and ground found in Matthew 13.

 

[Yeshua1]

John Piper is one of my favorite preachers, and the late John Stott one of my favorite Bible expositors, and Wayne Grudem one of my favorite theologians, and TGC one of my favorite web sites. When I say these people/sites are among "my favorites", I mean that I thank God for the way they have helped me and help many others. Yet, I am not a Calvinist. I say this because I don't want anyone to misinterpret my negative view of Calvinism as being a negative view of people who believe Calvinism.

One of the many problems I see is that I don't understand how under Calvinism God can be said to truly love any other than the elect. Martin mentioned some things which God does for all people in this current age. Yet to me, this falls far short of love.

Imagine that 20 people were drowning in the ocean. It was a bright sunny day, so in addition to drowning, they were suffering sunburns. Now let's say a person came along in a boat and offered all of them sun block. In addition to the sun block, he pulled 10 of them into his boat. The other 10 he left to drown, but at least while drowning they would not have a sunburn.

I feel like this is the picture I get from the Calvinist view of God. He is helping everyone in relatively small ways in this life, and I sure am thankful for that. But he is only giving some of the people the help they need the most. It doesn't seem loving. Or gracious. Or good. It doesn't seem anything at all like the God I read about in the Bible.

Look at it as all of us deserve etrnal Hell, and that God ahs chosen to save any of us is grace!

 

[Yeshua1]

You're assuming I believe something that I don't believe. Nor do I know of any evangelical non-Calvinist who believes it. I believe God loves EVERYONE enough to save them, and does indeed save many, specifically "whoever believes in Him" (John 3:16). He knew that many would believe. He is in fact achieving His goal of winning people from every tribe, nation, and language.

You still have a God though whose desire and will to save all sinners gets frustrated by the will of his creations!

 

[Mark Corbett]

You still have a God though whose desire and will to save all sinners gets frustrated by the will of his creations!

Yes, I agree. God's desire that none be lost is frustrated by the will of his creations. He did not have to give us free will. He sovereignly chose to. He knew how it would turn out. Apparently the Bride of Christ is worth the price of seeing many perish who would not accept Him.

 

[agedman]

Yes, I agree. God's desire that none be lost is frustrated by the will of his creations. He did not have to give us free will. He sovereignly chose to. He knew how it would turn out. Apparently the Bride of Christ is worth the price of seeing many perish who would not accept Him.

It is obvious you didn't take my suggestion to work through Jonathan Edwards "Freedom of the Will".

As a result you abide in great misconception of just what freedom of the will entails.

Please, spend some days working through the writing of the highly gifted Baptist pastor, educator and missionary.

At least it will give you foundationally the information from which you can make informed decision on this topic. Without which you seem to desire what cannot be Scripturally supported in the manner you are presenting.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

You're assuming I believe something that I don't believe. Nor do I know of any evangelical non-Calvinist who believes it. I believe God loves EVERYONE enough to save them, and does indeed save many, specifically "whoever believes in Him" (John 3:16). He knew that many would believe. He is in fact achieving His goal of winning people from every tribe, nation, and language.

If God loves everyone enough to save them, why isn't everybody saved?

 

[Aaron]

Is this an accurate description of what Calvinists generally believe?

I wouldn't call it a complete description.

The universe was created for the Cross. Election is a fruit thereof, not the root.

 

[Aaron]

Does Love Require Free Will?

The will is ruled by love, either by the love of one's self, or the love of God. The will is never free.

 

[Yeshua1]

Yes, I agree. God's desire that none be lost is frustrated by the will of his creations. He did not have to give us free will. He sovereignly chose to. He knew how it would turn out. Apparently the Bride of Christ is worth the price of seeing many perish who would not accept Him.

That view of god though would mean the His creation can undo the desired plans and works of Him, and not even God can grant any created being that ability, as he alone is really sovereign...

 

[Yeshua1]

If God loves everyone enough to save them, why isn't everybody saved?

If those who are lost are able to resist God efforts to save them, are they not by definition superior to Him then?

 

[Mark Corbett]

That view of god though would mean the His creation can undo the desired plans and works of Him, and not even God can grant any created being that ability, as he alone is really sovereign...

Yes, in a very limited way a person can prevent one part of God's desire from being accomplished. Specifically, they can keep themselves from being saved by rejecting His gracious salvation.

However, no person will keep God from reaching His great goal of having a world full of people who are as loving, kind, honest, good, and pure as Jesus. A world full of people who willingly and joyfully submit to Him because we know He is good and He loves us and we can trust Him fully. God is successfully working towards that goal now and that goal WILL be reached in the New Heaven and New Earth.

As far as God not being able to grant created beings free will, that is a strange claim. He can create the universe out of nothing, but is not capable of making creatures with free will if He so chooses? But why would He want to do such a thing? Love.