Does 'Non-Calvinisitic' theology really exalt the view of man?

[Rippon]

I'd be interested to hear what a non-cal prays for when you pray for someone you know to come to Christ. Do you pray that God would save them, or simply that God would put people in their life to share the gospel with them and situations that will point them toward him?

I have said this before,when a non-Cal (read Arminian) prays, they are in effect Calvinistic -- In contrast to their preaching/teaching.

Bavinck,Warfield,Spurgeon,Herman Hoeksema and many other have pointed this out.

 

[webdog]

I have said this before,when a non-Cal (read Arminian) prays, they are in effect Calvinistic -- In contrast to their preaching/teaching.

Bavinck,Warfield,Spurgeon,Herman Hoeksema and many other have pointed this out.

...and its still wrong. If anything the prayer of the determinist is foolishness.

 

[quantumfaith]

...and its still wrong. If anything the prayer of the determinist is foolishness.

Thanks for reminding us that is not a one of us without some inconsistency. No matter where one comes down on "the theological divide", at some point everyone must at some point come down on the axiom of "the mystery of God".

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Thanks for reminding us that is not a one of us without some inconsistency. No matter where one comes down on "the theological divide", at some point everyone must at some point come down on the axiom of "the mystery of God".

....Or avoid it entirely. More and more are opting out completely. God is irrelevant & a source of conflict. honestly this forum has taught me to completely disregard the rantings of any extremest, to be cautious of those attempting to radically change Orthodox theology & indifferent to the board in general. Frankly, there are some really pathological people here. Exposure to them has left me with renewed interest in my own faith.....that which I will study much further than I would have ever imagined I'd ever do.

 

[JesusFan]

Laughable.....simply laughable:laugh:

And a traditional Arminianist might pray:
" Lord, thank you for Jesus death on the cross for my sins, and I do accept Jesus by faith, and Now will permit/allow you to save me!"

 

[webdog]

And a traditional Arminianist might pray:
" Lord, thank you for Jesus death on the cross for my sins, and I do accept Jesus by faith, and Now will permit/allow you to save me!"

One of the dumbest things I have read on this board.

 

[mandym]

One of the dumbest things I have read on this board.

Agree :thumbs:

 

[Iconoclast]

One of the dumbest things I have read on this board.

What......this quote?

...and its still wrong. If anything the prayer of the determinist is foolishness.

God ordains the ways and means.Prayer fits the bill as one of the good works that were ....Ordained....eph2:10......is it okay to use that word?

You know exactly what was being referred to....

in the prayer meeting everyone asks God if it be His will to save those who are outside the kingdom......and yet in here some have posted that God has done everything he can.......now it is up to man.

 

[webdog]

What......this quote?

How completely immature of you.

God ordains the ways and means.Prayer fits the bill as one of the good works that were ....Ordained....eph2:10......is it okay to use that word?

You can use whatever word you like...my point still stands. If everything has already been determined, prayer is moot EVEN if God has in some illogical way decided for you to pray the prayer, and what to say. The purpose of prayer, and the fact that the prayer of the righteous "availeth much" has no meaning to the determinist.

in the prayer meeting everyone asks God if it be His will to save those who are outside the kingdom......and yet in here some have posted that God has done everything he can.......now it is up to man.

Provide just one example of someone here stating such foolishness. This rival's JesusFan's quote.

 

[JesusFan]

One of the dumbest things I have read on this board.

can God save you IF you refuse His offer to you?

if NO, aren't you determining if the Lord is able to save you, have to permit Him to do it?

 

[webdog]

can God save you IF you refuse His offer to you?

What does He say?

if NO, aren't you determining if the Lord is able to save you, have to permit Him to do it?

Like I said, what does He say? If I don't do what He commands am I permitting Him to send me to hell?

Your logic is mind boggling...

 

[mandym]

can God save you IF you refuse His offer to you?

if NO, aren't you determining if the Lord is able to save you, have to permit Him to do it?

Or it could also be that the Lord opens up your heart to receive the gospel and then gives you room to receive or reject it.

 

[JesusFan]

Or it could also be that the Lord opens up your heart to receive the gospel and then gives you room to receive or reject it.

Again, polite way to say that man determines his destiny in the ultimate sense....

cals at least have it that with the next stage, God openning the heart/mind, as cannot be resisted to be saved, gives God as ultimate source of salvation!

 

[webdog]

Again, polite way to say that man determines his destiny in the ultimate sense....

only in your mind. Your ultimate destiny is based on what He has decreed, meaning your continued claims of man's sovereignty is laughable.

cals at least have it that with the next stage, God openning the heart/mind, as cannot be resisted to be saved, gives God as ultimate source of salvation!

Keep on believing that if it makes you feel better.

 

[Iconoclast]

How completely immature of you.
You can use whatever word you like...my point still stands. If everything has already been determined, prayer is moot EVEN if God has in some illogical way decided for you to pray the prayer.
Provide just one example of someone here stating such foolishness. This rival's JesusFan's quote.

While that was not JF's best post , your attack on him was over the top.

I do not think you really want to stand by this comment do you???
Unless you are into reading open theists now

If everything has already been determined, prayer is moot EVEN if God has in some illogical way decided for you to pray the prayer.

Then this;

Provide just one example of someone here stating such foolishness

Here are some that were posted in only the last few months, maybe you missed them, hopefully not to many of them were by you;

Unless a person is willing to come to Christ, God is helpless to do anything to effect their salvation

God provides grace, but man must cooperate with it.

You must turn the knob to your heart and let Him in.

 

[JesusFan]

While that was not JF's best post , your attack on him was over the top.

I do not think you really want to stand by this comment do you???
Unless you are into reading open theists now



Then this;


Here are some that were posted in only the last few months, maybe you missed them, hopefully not to many of them were by you;

Aren't those posts listed/quoted more akin to say RCC theology than reformed?

That God and man agree to co operate in the salvation process, and once man has co operated "enough, done "right things" well enough, gets to have GOD save him?

 

[mandym]

Again, polite way to say that man determines his destiny in the ultimate sense....

No it isnt. God makes the plan and sets it regardless of the response He wants from us. The "Cal" view cannot be supported on this issue.

 

[webdog]

While that was not JF's best post , your attack on him was over the top.

Attacking a statement is not attacking a person, I'm sure you know that, you just like to grandstand.

I do not think you really want to stand by this comment do you???

sure I do, thats why I said it, its the caricature of prayer created by the determinist.

Unless you are into reading open theists now

red herring


Then this;

Here are some that were posted in only the last few months, maybe you missed them, hopefully not to many of them were by you;

not one of them were mine, but of course you know this as you quoted them. Just more of your passive aggressive ad hominem approach.

Would like to see those in context, though, and the threads posted on. Surely you could have supplied that.

 

[Robert Snow]

not one of them were mine, but of course you know this as you quoted them. Just more of your passive aggressive ad hominem approach.

Would like to see those in context, though, and the threads posted on. Surely you could have supplied that.

At least he can't have you burned at the stake!

 

[Iconoclast]

Webdog,
I do not want to misunderstand you here;

I do not think you really want to stand by this comment do you???

sure I do, thats why I said it, its the caricature of prayer created by the determinist.

Quote:

Could you explain in your own words what you mean by this;
If everything has already been determined, prayer is moot EVEN if God has in some illogical way decided for you to pray the prayer.

Are you saying God has not determined everything? pray is moot???