Does Salvation require baptistm?

[JesusFan]

I have quickly read through this thread, and it seems to me that the posts are discussing two different matters:

1. Whether a sinner has to be baptized in order to become a Christian (That is the question implied by the thread title, "Does Salvation Require Baptism?")

Fal seemed to indicate that a rfusal to be believers Baptised equals no slavation though...

2. Whether a sinner, having been saved, should be baptized.

As baptists, do we not all hold to Believers' Baptism, in other words, that converted sinners should be baptized? How then can we then say that a person must be baptized in order to become a Christian believer?

In addition, I think there is a huge difference between paedobaptists having a different (as baptists, we would say, unbiblical) understanding of baptism, and someone who says, "I know the Word of God commands me to be baptized, but I refuse!"

agreed!

We are addressing 2 main issues here...

Can baptists refuse to be watre baptised and still be true believers, saved by Christ?

I would say they SHOULD obey jesus and be such, but that if they chose not too, would not be unsaved!

Would God view water baptisms by any other mode as being valid, would be fulfilling command to do such by a believer?

Again, IF person is fully persuaded, and convinced by his scripture understanding, God would honor that, but IF wanted to be baptist, would need to be rebaptised!

 

[preacher4truth]

Yes, but I am not referring to the mode of baptism at all. I am referring to this in the OP:

"Refusing to be baptized gives evidence they are not saved"

 

[JesusFan]

Yes, but I am not referring to the mode of baptism at all. I am referring to this in the OP:

understand!

Think sometimes that its best NOT to be Baptised thogh until evidence of a genuine conversion, and the person knows biblically what it represents!

seen people comr to alter, get saved" and dunked in back bathtub immediatly!

 

[freeatlast]

understand!

Think sometimes that its best NOT to be Baptised thogh until evidence of a genuine conversion, and the person knows biblically what it represents!

Then first you do not undertand what baptism is about and second you do not believe in obeying the bible as the bible never teaches that to wait and examine.

 

[JesusFan]

Then first you do not undertand what baptism is about and second you do not believe in obeying the bible as the bible never teaches that to wait and examine.

baptist teach BELIEVERS BAPTISM, so we should wait to make sure the conversion was genuine!

And the early Church had an instruction to new converts as to what water baptism signified, just see Romans!

 

[freeatlast]

baptist teach BELIEVERS BAPTISM, so we should wait to make sure the conversion was genuine!

And the early Church had an instruction to new converts as to what water baptism signified, just see Romans!

I understand what Baptists teach. I am speaking about wat the bible teaches.

 

[preacher4truth]

Then first you do not undertand what baptism is about and second you do not believe in obeying the bible as the bible never teaches that to wait and examine.

Agreed. That is adding to the Word of God, this "waiting period," and it is being disobedient. I see no place in Scripture for a waiting period. To man it seems right and good, but in the end it is not Biblical. I'm certain their arguments and reasonings are interesting, but I couldn't care less about that. This all boils down to this; saying what we practice and do is only Biblically based, or actually doing it that way.

When we got saved, we told the preacher that we wanted to be saved and believed, they prayed with us and thanked God for saving us, and we were baptized at that service right then, having never attended this church before.

 

[JesusFan]

Agreed. That is adding to the Word of God, this "waiting period," and it is being disobedient. I see no place in Scripture for a waiting period. To man it seems right and good, but in the end it is not Biblical. I'm certain their arguments and reasonings are interesting, but I couldn't care less about that. This all boils down to this; saying what we practice and do is only Biblically based, or actually doing it that way.

When we got saved, we told the preacher that we wanted to be saved and believed, they prayed with us and thanked God for saving us, and we were baptized at that service right then, having never attended this church before.

Again , the Bible teaches that we need to make sure the new converts were really saved, not just had an 'emotional experience", and the early Church did have instruction to the new Christian as regarding just WHAT water baptism was representing....

As Apostle Paul stated in Romans, it is an outward symbol of the inward act of Grace that God aleady done for us in Christ!

Just trying to avoid that a non saved person gets baptized and thinks everything is OK!

My church schedules the water baptisms, as we have a class taught by the pastor to explore what it means biblically, and each person requesting it gets "interviewed" by him or an Elder too, in order to make sure everything seems valid to proceed!

 

[jbh28]

Again , the Bible teaches that we need to make sure the new converts were really saved, not just had an 'emotional experience", and the early Church did have instruction to the new Christian as regarding just WHAT water baptism was representing....

As Apostle Paul stated in Romans, it is an outward symbol of the inward act of Grace that God aleady done for us in Christ!

Just trying to avoid that a non saved person gets baptized and thinks everything is OK!

My church schedules the water baptisms, as we have a class taught by the pastor to explore what it means biblically, and each person requesting it gets "interviewed" by him or an Elder too, in order to make sure everything seems valid to proceed!

What verses are your speaking of when you say that the Bible teaches?

 

[JesusFan]

What verses are your speaking of when you say that the Bible teaches?

Romans 6:1-10.....

The Didache or Teaching of the Twelve Apostles was an early document that was used in early Church to instruct the new converts as to how to be baptised, and the reasons why they were!
So early church had a procedure in place for administering the ordinence, not just saved and right to the water!

 

[preacher4truth]

Romans 6:1-10.....

The Didache or Teaching of the Twelve Apostles was an early document that was used in early Church to instruct the new converts as to how to be baptised, and the reasons why they were!
So early church had a procedure in place for administering the ordinence, not just saved and right to the water!

Romans 6:1-10 doesn't support nor teach the view you are giving. The teaching of the 12/Didache do not supplant the Bible.

 

[freeatlast]

Again , the Bible teaches that we need to make sure the new converts were really saved, not just had an 'emotional experience", and the early Church did have instruction to the new Christian as regarding just WHAT water baptism was representing....

As Apostle Paul stated in Romans, it is an outward symbol of the inward act of Grace that God aleady done for us in Christ!

Just trying to avoid that a non saved person gets baptized and thinks everything is OK!

My church schedules the water baptisms, as we have a class taught by the pastor to explore what it means biblically, and each person requesting it gets "interviewed" by him or an Elder too, in order to make sure everything seems valid to proceed!

Then your church is in sin as it is going against what the bible teaches. There is no such thing as waiting to baptize someone who requests baptism in the name of the Lord. Your church pastor is in sin as well as your church as both have decided to come up with what you think is a better solution then what the Lord laid down. Preach the truth to them and if they seek to be baptize then do so. After they are baptized the church has every right to require them to take a new Chrsitians class, but the church does not have the right to feel them out before they Baptize them if they have requested baptism in the name of the Lord. If they remain in sin go through church discipline, but we are not told to screen them before the are baptized. Again your pastor and church is not biblical and is in sin.

 

[HAMel]

How does one "really" make sure that someone was converted?

As the Lord instructed us to "Follow Him" it would appear the only way to discern one's sincerity is over time. Where is any church instructed to "make sure" first? Seems like we add an awful lot of additional requirements.

 

[preacher4truth]

It's simple: We are instructed to preach the Gospel and baptize those who believe, not examine how their wool grows, and if to our liking then baptize them. Nowhere in Scripture does it talk of the things I've seen on here as far as a waiting period.

 

[HAMel]

We are instructed to preach the Gospel and baptize those who believe...,

Yep, the benefits according to the way "we" (the individual church) believes. The wheat and the tares grow together and will be sorted at the appointed time.

 

[Christos doulos]

Again , the Bible teaches that we need to make sure the new converts were really saved, not just had an 'emotional experience", and the early Church did have instruction to the new Christian as regarding just WHAT water baptism was representing....

As Apostle Paul stated in Romans, it is an outward symbol of the inward act of Grace that God aleady done for us in Christ!

Just trying to avoid that a non saved person gets baptized and thinks everything is OK!

My church schedules the water baptisms, as we have a class taught by the pastor to explore what it means biblically, and each person requesting it gets "interviewed" by him or an Elder too, in order to make sure everything seems valid to proceed!

That is sound biblical instruction your church is practicing. Many "churches" have done a lot of damage; fooling people that they are saved when in reality they were not; including yours truly. :saint:

 

[Christos doulos]

It's simple: We are instructed to preach the Gospel and baptize those who believe, not examine how their wool grows, and if to our liking then baptize them. Nowhere in Scripture does it talk of the things I've seen on here as far as a waiting period.

My friend. That is a bit of a straw-man

 

[Berean]

Does refusal to wear a wedding band make you not married?

 

[preacher4truth]

My friend. That is a bit of a straw-man

Apparently you don't know what a strawman* is, nor can you discern unbiblical man made teachings.

man. What I said was Biblical, yets your beliefs here have no Biblical basis whatsoever. I'd call that error and fallacy. Nowhere does Scripture say, or even imply a waiting period of examination of believers in order for them to be baptized. In addition, your subjective experience doesn't make void nor add to Scripture. So, we preach the Gospel, we baptize believers. If you got dunked as a non-believer, that's on your character my friend. I imagine you told them something when you were baptized.

Nothing in what jesusfan said, nor in your endorsement thereof is truth nor is it Biblical.

I simply gave the Scriptural example. I'm not surprised a believer doesn't accept it.

*See post #78 for an example of a strawman.

 

[Christos doulos]

How does one "really" make sure that someone was converted?

As the Lord instructed us to "Follow Him" it would appear the only way to discern one's sincerity is over time. Where is any church instructed to "make sure" first? Seems like we add an awful lot of additional requirements.

Jesus was quite clear. You will know them by their fruit.

These churches want to make sure that a person fully comprehends the significance of baptism and all that it entails. I very much doubt they have a litmus test...Do you believe speaking in tongues? STRIKE! :tongue3:

If you were the pastor. Would you baptize this young man? Do you believe this young man fully appreciates what he is about to do?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5abEm1241kY