And that’s why we are to do the great commission, do His work here on earth. Amen?
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Dominion vs determinism
- Thread starter Ben1445
- Start date
Ben1445
Well-Known Member
This is why salvation is all of Christ and through faith.
Faith is not something we do. It is when we stop doing and trust Christ to handle it.
KenH
Well-Known Member
For instance, when I sin, for instance, by saying something mean to someone out of anger, it is my lips, my tongue, my larynx that produce the sound. It was my brain that produced the mean thought that I expressed.
The same with believing. I believe, but it only by God's power making me willing that I do it. I repent, but it is only by God's power making me willing that I do it. And on and on.
KenH
Well-Known Member
Amen!
Bingo! We agree with the in Him. We were chosen in Him from before the foundation of the world.
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved. In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace which He lavished on us. In all wisdom and insight He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth. In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will, to the end that we who were the first to hope in Christ would be to the praise of His glory.[Ephesians 1:3-12]
Ben1445
Well-Known Member
On school activities everyone loads up into the busses and goes to the planned outing. The person in charge of directing the students dismisses bus by bus. He chooses everyone on the bus when he chooses the bus. The first students dismissed are chosen because they on the first bus chosen. It doesn’t matter who is on the bus. They are chosen because of the bus they are on. They had the option to choose the bus they would ride. But they were elected because of the bus they were on.
But salvation is not the cross PLUS our faith. Faith is part and parcel the cross, not an addendum. I’m listening to the late Dr. Greg Bahnsen on sermon audio. He was going through Galatians, and he stated something I think adds to this discussion: “If our justification is grounded in our faith, then it is grounded in something about us.”
That only works if the bus was elected from before the foundation of the world.
KenH
Well-Known Member
As @SovereignGrace stated correctly, no one makes himself elect. No one makes himself reprobate. God did that.
Romans 9:15-21
For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
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Ben1445
Well-Known Member
So just like believing, God’s power made you willing to produce the mean thought??
Ben1445
Well-Known Member
And Jesus was.
That is why we call on all men to believe on Christ and be found in Him.
He is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.
Ben1445
Well-Known Member
James 1:13
Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
KenH
Well-Known Member
And the only option that fallen man can choose by his supposed "free will" is the bus to Hell.
If any part of salvation was dependent upon us, then every one of us would go to Hell.
Ben1445
Well-Known Member
Exalted and given power to.
Not created out of the dust.
Made large enough to be a worldwide example.
Joshua 2:10
For we have heard how the LORD dried up the water of the Red sea for you, when ye came out of Egypt; and what ye did unto the two kings of the Amorites, that were on the other side Jordan, Sihon and Og, whom ye utterly destroyed.
Ben1445
Well-Known Member
This is false. As if to say that Jesus is advertising salvation and because they are not on the bus they cannot hear.
But Jesus is available to come to. And some of salvation is dependent upon us. Jesus told us to preach the gospel. How shall they hear without a preacher?
You abscond from your responsibility and place all the blame on God by saying that we have nothing to do with it.
If I had a dollar for every time I’ve heard, or read, 2 Timothy 3:9 out of context, I’d be fairly well off. Let’s examine the first nine vss, not just vs nine:
This is now, beloved, the second letter I am writing to you in which I am stirring up your sincere mind by way of reminder, that you should remember the words spoken beforehand by the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior spoken by your apostles. Know this first of all, that in the last days mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts, and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all continues just as it was from the beginning of creation.” For when they maintain this, it escapes their notice that by the word of God the heavens existed long ago and the earth was formed out of water and by water, through which the world at that time was destroyed, being flooded with water. But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.
But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day. The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.[2 Peter 3:1-9]
Look at all the personal pronouns Peter used. Those personal pronouns were used of believers he was writing to. God is not willing that any of His elect perish.
KenH
Well-Known Member
And what comes before that in 1 Peter 3:9? "but is longsuffering to us-ward". The "us-ward" are Christians, the elect of God that Peter was addressing. God is not willing that any of His elect, whom He chose individually before the world began, perish.
This earth shall remain in place until God has brought every last one of His elect, whom He chose individually before the world began, to regeneration and granted them faith in the finished work of Christ and repentance of dead works. At some point after the last of those He chose before the world began are born from above, then Christ will return, this earth and heavens will be burned up, and the new heavens and earth will be established wherein dwells righteousness.
He’s not absconding from any responsibility, but saying that salvation come solely from God, and done by God. Not that we aren’t to witness to the lost. But that we can in no way, do anything to save ourselves.
Ben1445
Well-Known Member
The us are people. Mankind. Not some group of people that God has respect to over another.
KenH
Well-Known Member
God states in the Bible that they cannot hear before being regenerated. Your argument is with God, not me. But as someone wrote long ago, your arms are too short to box with God.
2 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.