Donald Trump Indicted by special counsel

[JonC]

Mr. Trump did not "call fire" but he did make suggestions consistent with the Constitution.
Nothing wrong with calling attention to those engaged in false witnessing.
Mr. Trump is not charged with sinning, and the charges of wrongdoing in the past have been shown to be false.
Since the DOJ, i.e. the FBI, has been shown to fabricate evidence, why would anyone believe anything not corroborated by the Trump defense team, or other investigators acting independently of the Biden administration?

Trump made many comments, a lot I agree with. That said, he also made a few unconstitutional demands (most, to my knowledge, addressed by advisors and he walked back his comments).

Pertaining to Jan 6 what needs to be considered is his demand that Pence act unconstitutionally and reject the state certificates and start an investigation. The only time Congress can do this is if there is a conflict with the certificates delivered by the states (this has happened once when conflicting certificates were received).

So it is reasonable to view Trumps demands as anti-American as many alt-Right folks truly believed that Pence had the constitutional authority to stop Congress from certifying the election.

Now, did Trump have the right to tell that lie? In general and as a private citizen, yes. But the circumstances matter.

A citizen can tell a sick man that eating earthworms will cure his cancer. But the man's doctor telling him the same thing under "freedom of speech" wouldn't remove the doctors liability when the man eats earth worms rather than seeking legitimate treatment.

 

[canadyjd]

Once again, why now?

1. The FBI has just allowed members of both parties to view an unclassified doc that accuses POTUS of accepting a $5 million bribe as VP. No one is talking about that, it’s all about DT and mishandling docs.

2. Is the FBI setting up removing both POTUS and DT from election 2024?

3. Lastly, I’m not saying both parties did the same thing and both should be prosecuted. I’m saying the Dems did FAR WORSE violations and it was ignored, covered up by DOJ and FBI.

The is an obvious two tiered justice system in this country… one for the power broker elites and one for everyone that has not been accepted into the club. It is managed by unelected bureaucrats that are violating federal laws knowing they will never be prosecuted by others in the club.

This country’s course must be corrected through the ballot box. If it’s really too late for for voting to work, then God help us all because evil has won and rules in the USA.

peace to you

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Isn't it time that American's stand up and make known that the weaponizing of the legal system against conservatives and those who won't follow the socialistic ideology being pushed by the Democrats and media, needs to end! It's time to fight these lunatics.

How do you suggest we do that?

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Tough to accept this is happening in the United States. Let’s remember….

1. Hilary Clinton sent classified documents to her home on an unsecured fax machine and had her housekeeper collect them.

2. Joe Biden kept classified documents in his garage where his crack addict son had access.

3. Hilary Clinton’s assistant, Uba Something, had tens of thousands of classified documents (emails) on a home laptop that her pervert ex-husband had access to. The FBI looked at “sample” emails, declared nothing was in it and then they, the FBI, destroyed that laptop before DT was sworn in

The question is “why now”?

My suspicion is that this is an attempt by the Biden Admin to provoke the more emotional DT supporters into committing acts of violence to justify further DOJ targeting of conservatives.

Gird yourselves for an interesting 18 months.

peace to you

I sent this to a friend in the US. This was the reply she sent back to me. I am not saying she's correct, but I'll be interested to know what others think. It's hard to be sure of facts about this all the way over in Britain.


None of those stories are true … they are all conspiracy theories that facebook and far right media spreads. I encourage you to stick to reading reputable news sources like the NY Times or Washington Post to get the facts.

Trust me, if any of those stories are true, they would be plastered in these reputable news sources, and those people would have long been arrested. People have gone to jail for such crimes.

As far as the situation with Joe Biden and Mike Pence, late last year their staff had reported having found some classified docs that were forgotten in their offices. I think a Biden staff had found some classified docs locked up in a closet at the Biden Center (a think-tank organization) as they were seeking to vacate the office. Pence staff had also reported some classified docs in one of his offices too. And this is usually the case that some docs might sit around in positions like that (VP’s) of docs that were locked up and forgotten. But Trump’s case is VERY DIFFERENT, in the following ways:

1) Biden and Pence immediately notified the DOJ when the documents were discovered and wanted to return them to the government immediately (BIG DIFFERENCE HERE). So far there are no charges being made out to these men.

2) The documents that Trump took were actually in the White House. When he left the White House for the last time, Trump WILLFULLY took these documents with him, despite knowing that his presidency was coming to an end (there’s actually witnesses to this). The details of the indictment (which was just unsealed today) notes that Trump himself packed some of these documents! So it wasn’t like some staff just mistakenly packed these docs in a rush to pack things.

3) When NARA (National Archives and Records Administrations is responsible for preserving all presidential documents) first nicely asked Trump to return all the documents he took from the White House, in June of 2021, Trump ignored them. At that point NARA repeatedly tried to reach out to Trump to no avail. By 2022, NARA had no choice but to go to DOJ about this because a good chunk of the stuff Trump took were top secret material (we’re talking about TOP SECRET stuff like nukes capabilities and weaknesses of the USA and its allies … probably even top secret stuff of Britain’s capabilities/weaknesses, war plans, etc). So NARA was really concerned when Trump refused to give these back.

4) Once DOJ got involved they too also tried to ask nicely via lawyers. But Trump continued to refuse to give them back at which at some point, DOJ had putout a subpoena to hand back those documents. Trump still refused to follow the subpoena. That’s when in Aug of 2022, DOJ had no choice but to put out a warrant to search Maralago. But even after retrieving 100+ boxes of these documents HE STOLE, Trump still hid some of the classified docs by moving some of the boxes the day before the search warrant was going to be carried out — that is obstruction!

Had Trump just given back these docs when he was asked, the DOJ would have given him a break (and not charge him) and this could have all been avoided! Instead he continues to lie, obstruct, etc. Biden/Pence never did that when there were government documents found in their offices; instead they did the responsible thing and handed it back to the govt immediately --- that's the BIG DIFFERENCE. In fact there’s evidence that Trump had already shared some of these top secret docs with people that are not qualified to access them, which is a BIG NO NO.

My job used to involve working with classified material Steve and I can tell you that if I committed 1% of what Trump did, I’d be in jail right now. What Trump has done is serious crime. In fact a good chunk of the top secret docs he took is never supposed to have left a SCIF room (scif rooms are special rooms where very sensitive top secret materials are kept and must never leave the room… you are looking at jail time if you remove the docs from the premise). I have entered some of these SCIF rooms before and you can’t even bring a mobile phone into that room because they are afraid you might take pictures of those docs (and there’s zero internet access too) — this is how important those docs are. And there were about 100+ such docs that Trump took OUT of the SCIF rooms from the White House! That’s just NUTS! But sadly several of the top secret folders that were in Trump’s boxes (that DOJ retrieved) had missing files (these were specifically top secret markings of folders that had zero files in them). DOJ knows that they still have not gotten all the top secret materials back from Trump (probably already sold it to the highest bidder).

People who have done a fraction of what Trump did, have gone to jail. This isn’t something that the govt just overlooks — it endangers our national security (and our spies) as well as the securities of our allies (e.g. Britain). And I'm pretty certain that the UK punishes people who violate rules concerning top secret material too. Here’s a quote by one of DOJ’s experience lawyers, Neal Katyal and a White House reporter (Carol Leonnig) from the Washington Post about this indictment:

For the top secret docs that the govt knows Trump took but are still missing, he likely already sold them to the Saudis. This is why this is a crime that the DOJ can't ignore. No leading politician has ever committed such a severe and reckless crime with as many top secret materials as Trump did (there were several hundred boxes that the DOJ retrieved from Maralago). No one.

The indictment was unsealed today and released to the public. I've attached a copy of it for you in this email (since it may take too long for you to download it from the UK if I were to merely refer you to a link) --- read it yourself (reads like a story) and you'll see the seriousness of it and how reckless Trump was with these documents. I've been trained how to handle such sensitive documents before and it's just horrifying to see how reckless he is. Someone like him should never be given access to any such sensitive documents from here on (e.g. he never should hold public office that would require him to have access to such sensitive documents).

 

[Deacon]

Alas, the indictment of Donald Trump is an obvious political gambit that reveals a deep ingrained corruption within our legal system.

I’d be all for the indictment of the former president if justice were to be applied equally.
Without a doubt, it would clear out most (if not all) of the career politicians from Washington.

Rob

 

[JonC]

I sent this to a friend in the US. This was the reply she sent back to me. I am not saying she's correct, but I'll be interested to know what others think. It's hard to be sure of facts about this all the way over in Britain.


None of those stories are true … they are all conspiracy theories that facebook and far right media spreads. I encourage you to stick to reading reputable news sources like the NY Times or Washington Post to get the facts.

Trust me, if any of those stories are true, they would be plastered in these reputable news sources, and those people would have long been arrested. People have gone to jail for such crimes.

As far as the situation with Joe Biden and Mike Pence, late last year their staff had reported having found some classified docs that were forgotten in their offices. I think a Biden staff had found some classified docs locked up in a closet at the Biden Center (a think-tank organization) as they were seeking to vacate the office. Pence staff had also reported some classified docs in one of his offices too. And this is usually the case that some docs might sit around in positions like that (VP’s) of docs that were locked up and forgotten. But Trump’s case is VERY DIFFERENT, in the following ways:

1) Biden and Pence immediately notified the DOJ when the documents were discovered and wanted to return them to the government immediately (BIG DIFFERENCE HERE). So far there are no charges being made out to these men.

2) The documents that Trump took were actually in the White House. When he left the White House for the last time, Trump WILLFULLY took these documents with him, despite knowing that his presidency was coming to an end (there’s actually witnesses to this). The details of the indictment (which was just unsealed today) notes that Trump himself packed some of these documents! So it wasn’t like some staff just mistakenly packed these docs in a rush to pack things.

3) When NARA (National Archives and Records Administrations is responsible for preserving all presidential documents) first nicely asked Trump to return all the documents he took from the White House, in June of 2021, Trump ignored them. At that point NARA repeatedly tried to reach out to Trump to no avail. By 2022, NARA had no choice but to go to DOJ about this because a good chunk of the stuff Trump took were top secret material (we’re talking about TOP SECRET stuff like nukes capabilities and weaknesses of the USA and its allies … probably even top secret stuff of Britain’s capabilities/weaknesses, war plans, etc). So NARA was really concerned when Trump refused to give these back.

4) Once DOJ got involved they too also tried to ask nicely via lawyers. But Trump continued to refuse to give them back at which at some point, DOJ had putout a subpoena to hand back those documents. Trump still refused to follow the subpoena. That’s when in Aug of 2022, DOJ had no choice but to put out a warrant to search Maralago. But even after retrieving 100+ boxes of these documents HE STOLE, Trump still hid some of the classified docs by moving some of the boxes the day before the search warrant was going to be carried out — that is obstruction!

Had Trump just given back these docs when he was asked, the DOJ would have given him a break (and not charge him) and this could have all been avoided! Instead he continues to lie, obstruct, etc. Biden/Pence never did that when there were government documents found in their offices; instead they did the responsible thing and handed it back to the govt immediately --- that's the BIG DIFFERENCE. In fact there’s evidence that Trump had already shared some of these top secret docs with people that are not qualified to access them, which is a BIG NO NO.

My job used to involve working with classified material Steve and I can tell you that if I committed 1% of what Trump did, I’d be in jail right now. What Trump has done is serious crime. In fact a good chunk of the top secret docs he took is never supposed to have left a SCIF room (scif rooms are special rooms where very sensitive top secret materials are kept and must never leave the room… you are looking at jail time if you remove the docs from the premise). I have entered some of these SCIF rooms before and you can’t even bring a mobile phone into that room because they are afraid you might take pictures of those docs (and there’s zero internet access too) — this is how important those docs are. And there were about 100+ such docs that Trump took OUT of the SCIF rooms from the White House! That’s just NUTS! But sadly several of the top secret folders that were in Trump’s boxes (that DOJ retrieved) had missing files (these were specifically top secret markings of folders that had zero files in them). DOJ knows that they still have not gotten all the top secret materials back from Trump (probably already sold it to the highest bidder).

People who have done a fraction of what Trump did, have gone to jail. This isn’t something that the govt just overlooks — it endangers our national security (and our spies) as well as the securities of our allies (e.g. Britain). And I'm pretty certain that the UK punishes people who violate rules concerning top secret material too. Here’s a quote by one of DOJ’s experience lawyers, Neal Katyal and a White House reporter (Carol Leonnig) from the Washington Post about this indictment:

For the top secret docs that the govt knows Trump took but are still missing, he likely already sold them to the Saudis. This is why this is a crime that the DOJ can't ignore. No leading politician has ever committed such a severe and reckless crime with as many top secret materials as Trump did (there were several hundred boxes that the DOJ retrieved from Maralago). No one.

The indictment was unsealed today and released to the public. I've attached a copy of it for you in this email (since it may take too long for you to download it from the UK if I were to merely refer you to a link) --- read it yourself (reads like a story) and you'll see the seriousness of it and how reckless Trump was with these documents. I've been trained how to handle such sensitive documents before and it's just horrifying to see how reckless he is. Someone like him should never be given access to any such sensitive documents from here on (e.g. he never should hold public office that would require him to have access to such sensitive documents).

Your friend seems to have some conspiracies of her own, lol.

Trump, Biden, and Pence were guilty of mishandling classified documents. That is a serious issue, but not necessarily a crime. This occurs more than you'd think. When I was a special investigator for DCSA I conducted interviews for security clearances and this, while not a common issue, occurred occasionally. In each of my cases it was by mistake (it sounds like Pence had classified documents by mistake).

The bigger problem is storage. Biden, as VP, had classified documents stored inappropriately (as did Trump and Pence).

Your friend is right that Trump's was worse because unlike Biden and Pence he resisted turning in those documents.

Worse than Trump was Hilary Clinton who used her personal email to send classified information. I have absolutely no doubt other nations benefited from her actions.

The issue here is not that Trump mishandled the documents. That is wrong, but not something to charge somebody with.

The issue is that the Democrat Party is weaponizing the judicial system for its political goals. The GOP has done the same, just not with as much success.

In the US we have a two party system where both parties are equally corrupt. They just have different agendas.

 

[MrW]

The Justice system is a joke, and has been since 2016.

Hopefully a lesser magistrate stands up and refuses to bend the knee, then all the Christians can rally around him.

It started with obama—the rapid decline of all decency and common sense in America, and the start and cause of the worst racial divide in fifty years.

 

[Baptist Believer]

4) As stated, the charges are made-up nonsense…

So all the witness testimony (including from Trump’s attorneys), recordings (video and audio), and Trump’s public statements are “made-up nonsense?”

Got it.

5) Of course the President can declassify any document.

No, not correct.

While the President, Vice President, and designated agency heads can declassify documents, certain types of documents cannot be unilaterally declassified by the President. For instance:

Some secrets, such as information related to nuclear weapons, are handled separately under a specific statutory scheme that Congress has adopted under the Atomic Energy Act. Those secrets cannot be automatically declassified by the president alone and require, by law, extensive consultation with executive branch agencies.​

Here are the basic facts:

(1) Donald Trump ceased to be President on January 20, 2021, at noon. At that moment, private citizen Trump lost the legal privilege of viewing classified materials, declassifying documents, possessing classified materials, and possessing unclassified government documents.

(2) Private citizen, Donald Trump, allegedly (and according to his own statements) possessed government documents after his time in office expired. He has claimed the right to possess them.

(3) There is a formal process for declassification of documents, and Trump was well aware of how to do it. For instance, he declassified select files from the Crossfire Hurricane investigation on January 19, 2021, at about the same time he was preparing to leave the White House.

(4) While preparing the leave the White House, allegedly President Trump personally packed boxes with classified and unclassified documents to be delivered to the Mar-a-Lago Club (see Indictment USA v. TRUMP and NAUTA, page 10, paragraph 24).

(5) The Atomic Energy Act of 1954, and subsequent updates, does not allow the President to unilaterally declassify documents related to nuclear weapons.

(6) Private citizen Trump repeatedly refused to return documents to the national archives. Trump allegedly engaged in a series of actions designed to hide documents from the government (see Indictment pages 21-24, paragraphs 52-62), and had his attorneys make false statements to the FBI regarding his possession of classified documents. This is in direct contrast to the situations with Pence and Biden, where classified documents were discovered, immediately reported, and then turned over to the appropriate authorities. Both Pence and Biden voluntarily allowed the government to search their homes, offices, and storage areas to ensure they did not have additional documents.

(7) Allegedly, Trump personally reviewed the contents of each box of documents, a few at a time, to determine what boxes should be returned to the government in partial compliance with the subpoena (see Indictment, page 22, paragraph 56).

(8) Allegedly, private citizen Trump moved a quantity of documents from Mar-a-Lago Club to Bedminster Golf Club (see Indictment, page 23, paragraph 58c and page 26, paragraph 72).

(9) Allegedly, private citizen Trump disclosed classified information in private meetings (see Indictment, page 14-17, paragraphs 32-35) that has been corroborated by multiple witness testimonies and an audio recording. NOTE: Trump claimed to his audience that the document he was showing them was currently classified and he no longer had the ability to declassify it.

(10) Among the classified national defense documents presented as evidence in this indictment (see Indictment, pages 28-33), some of them involve nuclear weaponry information.

...why would anyone believe anything not corroborated by the Trump defense team...

It sounds like you are unaware that much of the incriminating information in the federal indictment came from former and current members of Trump's defense team. I find it very hard to believe that you actually read the whole indictment.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Your friend seems to have some conspiracies of her own, lol.

Trump, Biden, and Pence were guilty of mishandling classified documents. That is a serious issue, but not necessarily a crime. This occurs more than you'd think. When I was a special investigator for DCSA I conducted interviews for security clearances and this, while not a common issue, occurred occasionally. In each of my cases it was by mistake (it sounds like Pence had classified documents by mistake).

The bigger problem is storage. Biden, as VP, had classified documents stored inappropriately (as did Trump and Pence).

Your friend is right that Trump's was worse because unlike Biden and Pence he resisted turning in those documents.

Worse than Trump was Hilary Clinton who used her personal email to send classified information. I have absolutely no doubt other nations benefited from her actions.

The issue here is not that Trump mishandled the documents. That is wrong, but not something to charge somebody with.

The issue is that the Democrat Party is weaponizing the judicial system for its political goals. The GOP has done the same, just not with as much success.

In the US we have a two party system where both parties are equally corrupt. They just have different agendas.

The real issue here is the current AG hates Trump and is manipulating information to take him outa the political arena, most likely endorsed by the mentally disabled sitting POTUS. It’s a crap show all around… totally politically motivated.

 

[Van]

So all the witness testimony (including from Trump’s attorneys), recordings (video and audio), and Trump’s public statements are “made-up nonsense?”

I said the charges, not the Trump team statements.

Of course the President can declassify any document. Saying taint so does not alter the Constitution.

While the President, Vice President, and designated agency heads can declassify documents, certain types of documents cannot be unilaterally declassified by the President.

This claim is unconstitutional, as the Legislative Branch cannot alter by Law, the Executive Branch, and a former President cannot overrule a sitting President, such as signing a bogus Law.

 

[canadyjd]

…..
Here are the basic facts:

(1) Donald Trump ceased to be President on January 20, 2021, at noon. At that moment, private citizen Trump lost the legal privilege of viewing classified materials, declassifying documents, possessing classified materials, and possessing unclassified government documents…...

That is not accurate

Former POTUS’s do not lose security clearance when they leave office.

In 2012, a federal judge declared Bill Clinton had the authority to declare audio tapes from his time in office (he kept them in a sock draw) to be “personal” and not subject to FOIA requests.

With the case against DT, it will play out in court. I suspect most of the charges will be dismissed prior to trial, but a couple might move forward.

Peace to you

 

[JonC]

The real issue here is the current AG hates Trump and is manipulating information to take him outa the political arena, most likely endorsed by the mentally disabled sitting POTUS. It’s a crap show all around… totally politically motivated.

I agree. Thing is, when the tables turn we get the same thing.

What we are seeing is that there is no honor among thieves.

The GOP and the DNC are just corrupt parties of the same corrupt system. Most of them belong in jail.

 

[AVL1984]

How do you suggest we do that?

There is always letter writing and mobilizing the honest voters and letting these RINO's know that if they don't straighten up and fly right they'll be out of a job. It's worked in the past. It can work now as well. There are other ways as well....use some imagination.

 

[Wingman68]

I stopped by at Sundance’s this morning. It’s not on my regular routine, but not sure why…..anyway, this discussion pertains to what we are speaking of here. It made me realize there are so many who feel the same. The comments are equally inciteful.

Patriots Do Not Flinch - The Last Refuge

 

[Baptist Believer]

Of course the President can declassify any document. Saying taint so does not alter the Constitution.

Specifically, where in the Constitution does it say that?

 

[Baptist Believer]

That is not accurate.

Actually, it is. However, it is quite understandable that you and many other people don’t know that. Many right-wing pundits have made false claims about security clearances involving Presidents in an effort to defend Trump.

Former POTUS’s do not lose security clearance when they leave office.

Trump (and most other Presidents) do not go through a normal security clearance. As an elected official, the fact of their election to a job that requires them to interact with classified information is all that is required. However, persons whom they appoint for various positions in government have to go through a clearance process, like private citizens who work on classified projects.

Of the Presidents in my lifetime, I’m pretty sure Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Reagan, Clinton, George W. Bush, and Obama did not have a security clearance. Jimmy Carter probably had one because of his Navy career and work with nuclear reactors. George H. W. Bush likely had one as well because of his service at our embassy in China and serving at the Director of Central Intelligence.

When a President leaves office, the succeeding President usually requests that the former Presidents periodically receive briefings so they can be up to date on the world situation in the event the current President wants to get another perspective or advice. However, President Biden decided not to provide the briefings to former President Trump because of the way he had handled classified information when he was in office. So when Biden was sworn in, Trump lost legal access to classified information.

Whether or not you agree with Biden’s decision is irrelevant, because President Biden gets to make the decision about who is “read into” classified information.

In 2012, a federal judge declared Bill Clinton had the authority to declare audio tapes from his time in office (he kept them in a sock draw) to be “personal” and not subject to FOIA requests.

If you read the actual decision, you will see that the NARA archivist made the decision about the tapes being personal information, not Bill Clinton.

 

[canadyjd]

Actually, it is. However, it is quite understandable that you and many other people don’t know that. Many right-wing pundits have made false claims about security clearances involving Presidents in an effort to defend Trump.


Trump (and most other Presidents) do not go through a normal security clearance. As an elected official, the fact of their election to a job that requires them to interact with classified information is all that is required. However, persons whom they appoint for various positions in government have to go through a clearance process, like private citizens who work on classified projects.

Of the Presidents in my lifetime, I’m pretty sure Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Reagan, Clinton, George W. Bush, and Obama did not have a security clearance. Jimmy Carter probably had one because of his Navy career and work with nuclear reactors. George H. W. Bush likely had one as well because of his service at our embassy in China and serving at the Director of Central Intelligence.

When a President leaves office, the succeeding President usually requests that the former Presidents periodically receive briefings so they can be up to date on the world situation in the event the current President wants to get another perspective or advice. However, President Biden decided not to provide the briefings to former President Trump because of the way he had handled classified information when he was in office. So when Biden was sworn in, Trump lost legal access to classified information.

Whether or not you agree with Biden’s decision is irrelevant, because President Biden gets to make the decision about who is “read into” classified information.


If you read the actual decision, you will see that the NARA archivist made the decision about the tapes being personal information, not Bill Clinton.

First, you made a blanket statement that as soon as a new president is sworn in the former president loses all rights to view, or have in their Persian any classified documents. That is not true.

Second, you claimed Biden had the right to have classified docs in his garage because he had the right to declassify them.

So, as usual, the standard you are declaring only applies to DT.

Thirdly, are you concerned at all that an unclassified FBI document claims Biden took a $5 million bribe when he was VP?

Are you concerned at all that Biden taunted the press when asked by saying “where’s the money” knowing the document detailed an elaborate scheme by Biden to hid the money through dozens of transfers though sham companies that only exists to launder money?

Ate you concerned at all that more than 20 of those fake companies have been identified through bank records, which the DOJ and FBI are fully aware of.

I will say it again, there is a clear double standard in play here in real time where the highest levels of government police state have been weaponized against political opponents.

It is a terrifying day in the USA

peace to you

 

[JonC]

Actually, it is. However, it is quite understandable that you and many other people don’t know that. Many right-wing pundits have made false claims about security clearances involving Presidents in an effort to defend Trump.


Trump (and most other Presidents) do not go through a normal security clearance. As an elected official, the fact of their election to a job that requires them to interact with classified information is all that is required. However, persons whom they appoint for various positions in government have to go through a clearance process, like private citizens who work on classified projects.

Of the Presidents in my lifetime, I’m pretty sure Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Reagan, Clinton, George W. Bush, and Obama did not have a security clearance. Jimmy Carter probably had one because of his Navy career and work with nuclear reactors. George H. W. Bush likely had one as well because of his service at our embassy in China and serving at the Director of Central Intelligence.

When a President leaves office, the succeeding President usually requests that the former Presidents periodically receive briefings so they can be up to date on the world situation in the event the current President wants to get another perspective or advice. However, President Biden decided not to provide the briefings to former President Trump because of the way he had handled classified information when he was in office. So when Biden was sworn in, Trump lost legal access to classified information.

Whether or not you agree with Biden’s decision is irrelevant, because President Biden gets to make the decision about who is “read into” classified information.


If you read the actual decision, you will see that the NARA archivist made the decision about the tapes being personal information, not Bill Clinton.

I agree. But regarding Carter and Bush, we also have to remember that security clearances cease when not needed (they last 5 years and need the be renewed, but when not in use you don't have them).

For example, I had a top secret clearance when I needed one at a nuclear facility. I no longer need it, so I am uncleared. BUT it is still good for another year or so and can be reinstated if needed. After that time I'd need a new tier investigation (rather than a reinvestigation) as it would expire.

 

[Baptist Believer]

First, you made a blanket statement that as soon as a new president is sworn in the former president loses all rights to view, or have in their Persian any classified documents. That is not true.

Sure it is. Just because you don’t believe it doesn’t make it a false statement.

No former President has the “right” to classified documents. The current President can allow it, and often does in the form of briefings, but Biden did not extend those briefings to Trump. I cited evidence for that - click here.

Second, you claimed Biden had the right to have classified docs in his garage because he had the right to declassify them.

I claimed no such thing. That would be a stupid thing to claim.

In fact, both Pence and Biden expressly acknowledged that they didn’t have any right or claim to classified documents and made immediate arrangements to return them. Not only that, they voluntarily allowed government representatives to search their offices and properties to see if other documents could be located - citations for this claim for both Pence and Biden. If Trump had done that, he would not have been indicted. Instead, he has — by his own admission — claimed that they are rightly his property.

You may be confused by my pointing out (with evidence) that both the President and Vice President have the right to declassify some documents. Right-wing pundits often falsely claim that only the President has that authority. I'll show you again - click this link.

So, as usual, the standard you are declaring only applies to DT.

As usual, you are making claims against me that are not true since you don’t have an argument. Then you engage in deflection to try to change the subject of the conversation from Trump.

I have cited evidence that you refuse to even acknowledge, much less refute. It seems you are not willing to have an honest conversation.

 

[Van]

Specifically, where in the Constitution does it say that?

"The executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America." Article II

Thus any executive power such as classification and declassification is vested in the President during his or her term of office.