Donald Trump Indicted by special counsel

[canadyjd]

Sure it is. Just because you don’t believe it doesn’t make it a false statement.

No former President has the “right” to classified documents. The current President can allow it, and often does in the form of briefings, but Biden did not extend those briefings to Trump. I cited evidence for that - click here.


I claimed no such thing. That would be a stupid thing to claim.

In fact, both Pence and Biden expressly acknowledged that they didn’t have any right or claim to classified documents and made immediate arrangements to return them. Not only that, they voluntarily allowed government representatives to search their offices and properties to see if other documents could be located - citations for this claim for both Pence and Biden. If Trump had done that, he would not have been indicted. Instead, he has — by his own admission — claimed that they are rightly his property.

You may be confused by my pointing out (with evidence) that both the President and Vice President have the right to declassify some documents. Right-wing pundits often falsely claim that only the President has that authority. I'll show you again - click this link.


As usual, you are making claims against me that are not true since you don’t have an argument. Then you engage in deflection to try to change the subject of the conversation from Trump.

I have cited evidence that you refuse to even acknowledge, much less refute. It seems you are not willing to have an honest conversation.

Are you concerned Biden, as VP, was accused in an unclassified FBI document to have taken a $5 million bribe to change policy concerning Ukraine?

Are you concerned Biden taunted the media when asked by saying “where is the money”?

Are you concerned the FBI document alleges Biden would launder the money through a complicated series of fake bank accounts?

Are you concerned more than 20 fake bank accounts have been discovered through bank records that serve no purpose other than laundering money?

Are you concerned the DOJ and FBI have known all these facts and done nothing to act on them other than stonewall investigators and over site?

As for the rest of what you said, you have changed your argument. First you stated all Presidents lose their ability to view, possess or otherwise handle classified documents when they leave office. That blanket statement is untrue.

Now you say they don’t have the “right” to do so.

All POTUS take classified docs with them when they leave office, most to be part of their presidential library.

It is only with DT has this well established precedent been criminalized.

As some law professors have noted, the Biden admin is following the communist dictator playbook…. Show me the man and I’ll find the crime.

peace to you

 

[MrW]

America was MUCH BETTER OFF under President Trump than it is now.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Biden's telling little boys they can become little girls. He's also saying the people who correctly tell him he's wrong are evil. Children are being absolutely butchered before they are allowed to reach puberty. And before you go there, hormone blockers butcher children. Anybody who tells you the effects are temporary and can be reversed are lying.

Any professing Christian who would vote for him deserves to be mocked. There is no way I'll be told anything by any Christian identifying as a Democrat.

Once your party stops with the march to normalize pedophilia and adolescent transgenderism we can talk about how evil Trump is.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

America was MUCH BETTER OFF under President Trump than it is now.

I didn't vote for Trump either time but I don't see how your statement can possibly be denied.

 

[Baptist Believer]

"The executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America." Article II

Thus any executive power such as classification and declassification is vested in the President during his or her term of office.

Fair enough. It seems like you subscribe to the theory that the Article II of the Constitution allowed President Trump "to do anything he wanted."

But if you have taken a U.S. government class at any point in your life, you should know that there are checks and balances to go along with the separation of powers. But you are obviously committed to your view, so I'll let you enjoy it until reality sets things straight.

But that whole discussion is irrelevant to the federal indictment against Trump, since he is no longer President.

 

[Van]

Fair enough. It seems like you subscribe to the theory that the Article II of the Constitution allowed President Trump "to do anything he wanted."

But if you have taken a U.S. government class at any point in your life, you should know that there are checks and balances to go along with the separation of powers. But you are obviously committed to your view, so I'll let you enjoy it until reality sets things straight.

But that whole discussion is irrelevant to the federal indictment against Trump, since he is no longer President.

Please stop slandering me with made up false charges.
Please address what I said. The sitting President has the power to classify and declassify because the power is his according to the constitution. Full Stop

 

[Baptist Believer]

Are you concerned Biden...

So this thread does not get derailed, I have started a new thread with your concerns.

As for the rest of what you said, you have changed your argument.

No I haven't.

First you stated all Presidents lose their ability to view, possess or otherwise handle classified documents when they leave office.

No, that's a clever misquote. I actually wrote:

(1) Donald Trump ceased to be President on January 20, 2021, at noon. At that moment, private citizen Trump lost the legal privilege of viewing classified materials, declassifying documents, possessing classified materials, and possessing unclassified government documents.

Notice the words in red. Please don't misquote me for the sake of your argument.

That blanket statement is untrue.

No it's not, but if it makes you feel better you are welcome to believe it.

Now you say they don’t have the “right” to do so.

I was simply refuting your allegation that Presidents do not have a "right" to confidential documents. Both of my statements are true. (You realize that I am capable of saying the same sort of thing in different ways without renouncing my previous statements, right?)

All POTUS take classified docs with them when they leave office, most to be part of their presidential library.

They don't "take classified docs with them," the National Archives establishes a secure facility to hold Presidential records until the library is built. Then the Presidential Library coordinates with the National Archives (and the current President) to allow access, as needed, for the former President and scholars. The current President holds the authority over access to classified documents for former Presidents. President Trump does not have access, nor (to my knowledge) has President Trump expressed any interest in building a Presidential Library.

EDIT: After I posted the above, I did a quick search. I know you don't like fact checks, but perhaps this can be of assistance to someone else.

 

[Piper]

Please stop slandering me with made up false charges.
Please address what I said. The sitting President has the power to classify and declassify because the power is his according to the constitution. Full Stop

Dude. Really, Grow up. Stop with the "Full Stop"

 

[Baptist Believer]

Please address what I said.

I did.

The sitting President has the power to classify and declassify because the power is his according to the constitution. Full Stop

"Checks and Balances" is the response. The Executive Branch is subject to both Congress and the Judiciary. Congress is subject to the Executive Branch and the Judiciary. The Judiciary is subject to Congress and the Executive Branch.

It is a basic understanding of the US system. Feel free to ignore it.

 

[canadyjd]

So this thread does not get derailed, I have started a new thread with your concerns.


No I haven't.


No, that's a clever misquote. I actually wrote:

(1) Donald Trump ceased to be President on January 20, 2021, at noon. At that moment, private citizen Trump lost the legal privilege of viewing classified materials, declassifying documents, possessing classified materials, and possessing unclassified government documents.

Notice the words in red. Please don't misquote me for the sake of your argument.


No it's not, but if it makes you feel better you are welcome to believe it.


I was simply refuting your allegation that Presidents do not have a "right" to confidential documents. Both of my statements are true. (You realize that I am capable of saying the same sort of thing in different ways without renouncing my previous statements, right?)


They don't "take classified docs with them," the National Archives establishes a secure facility to hold Presidential records until the library is built. Then the Presidential Library coordinates with the National Archives (and the current President) to allow access, as needed, for the former President and scholars. The current President holds the authority over access to classified documents for former Presidents. President Trump does not have access, nor (to my knowledge) has President Trump expressed any interest in building a Presidential Library.

EDIT: After I posted the above, I did a quick search. I know you don't like fact checks, but perhaps this can be of assistance to someone else.

A “USA Today” fact check? Sure, I’ll just accept they are true arbiters of facts and truth….

(I’m being sarcastic)

Thanks for the conversation.

peace to you

 

[MrW]

I didn't vote for Trump either time but I don't see how your statement can possibly be denied.

I have voted for Donald Trump every chance I got, and will do so again, because he’s not my pastor; he is a very good American, who loves America, and who wants the best for this nation. And he’s intelligent and gets good things done, including making America energy self-sufficient. He knows males and females are different and he doesn’t ramp up inflation. My 401(k) did GREAT with him and disastrously with biden. God used him to bless America. But obama and biden continue to CURSE this once-great nation. I don’t believe we will recover, and if a demonrat wins in 2024, you can kiss America GOODBYE.

 

[Baptist Believer]

A “USA Today” fact check? Sure, I’ll just accept they are true arbiters of facts and truth….

(I’m being sarcastic)

This kind of response demonstrates that you don't understand the purpose behind fact checking websites. They do not exist to tell you what to think, they exist to point you to information that you can research yourself.

If you don't understand that, then it's no wonder you are so mixed up.

 

[canadyjd]

This kind of response demonstrates that you don't understand the purpose behind fact checking websites. They do not exist to tell you what to think, they exist to point you to information that you can research yourself.

If you don't understand that, then it's no wonder you are so mixed up.

Not mixed up at all. USA Today is a propaganda rag for the radical left.

If you don’t understand that, it’s no wonder you are so confused.

peace to you

 

[JonC]

Not mixed up at all. USA Today is a propaganda rag for the radical left.

If you don’t understand that, it’s no wonder you are so confused.

peace to you

The problem is we no longer have trustworthy journalism. AND if we did people would only believe the parts that went with their political ideology.

I don't think the trust, once lost, can easily be gained.

A few years ago I'd watch CSPAN (just had it on, live coverage of Congress or the Senate).

The I'd check the media. CNN, Fox, Daily Wire, MSNBC....all half truths with a hard spin.

 

[canadyjd]

The problem is we no longer have trustworthy journalism. AND if we did people would only believe the parts that went with their political ideology.

I don't think the trust, once lost, can easily be gained.

A few years ago I'd watch CSPAN (just had it on, live coverage of Congress or the Senate).

The I'd check the media. CNN, Fox, Daily Wire, MSNBC....all half truths with a hard spin.

Very true in all regards.

As I have stated, this country is in a very dangerous place. About half the country no longer trusts or respect the DOJ/FBI will be impartial in investigations and charges.

Did you know the FBI will not use video or audio to record interviews? They only rely on handwritten notes in court proceedings.

If people do not trust the leading law enforcement agency in this country to act without bias, or suspect they will lie to get warrants, we are in trouble.

I see Senator Grassley mentioned parts of the document on the Senate floor. This man in Ukraine that gave the $5 million bribe has audio tapes of phone conversations with both Biden’s.

The FBI redacted that part of the document they allowed congress to see. Even at this late hour they are running interference and acting politically. Very sad.

peace to you

 

[Van]

Dude. Really, Grow up. Stop with the "Full Stop"

Once characteristic of the "taint so" crowd is they address how something is presented rather than what it presented.

Here again is what I said:

The sitting President has the power to classify and declassify because the power is his according to the constitution. Full Stop

Did this poster take a position with clarity?

 

[Van]

I did.

"Checks and Balances" is the response. The Executive Branch is subject to both Congress and the Judiciary. Congress is subject to the Executive Branch and the Judiciary. The Judiciary is subject to Congress and the Executive Branch.

It is a basic understanding of the US system. Feel free to ignore it.

I did not say the Constitution allows the President to do anything he may of wanted, so you did not address what I said.

Once of the "Checks and Balances" is that one branch of government cannot usurp the powers granted to another branch.

 

[Piper]

Once characteristic of the "taint so" crowd is they address how something is presented rather than what it presented.

Here again is what I said:

The sitting President has the power to classify and declassify because the power is his according to the constitution. Full Stop

Did this poster take a position with clarity?

I understand your statement. It's the arrogant "Full Stop" that you use that I am talking about. Take a chill pill.

The "taint so" crowd is condescending too. I am addressing your manner as well as your words.

Yes, the president has the power to declassify. So what? What should I learn from you great wisdom in making that statement?

 

[Van]

I understand your statement. It's the arrogant "Full Stop" that you use that I am talking about. Take a chill pill.

The "taint so" crowd is condescending too. I am addressing your manner as well as your words.

Yes, the president has the power to declassify. So what? What should I learn from you great wisdom in making that statement?

Once again this poster addresses me, with condescension (from your great wisdom) rather than my correction of a false statement made by another poster.

 

[canadyjd]

Please God, make it stop

peace to you