Don't legalize Drugs...

[Inspector Javert]

Lemme guess.....you'll claim that they are consenting adults right?????
But people have been arrested for engaging in cannibalism with a consenting adult....
Should it be legal for me to eat another consenting person who does themself in in order for me to cook and eat them???

Should someone be able to sell videos of acts of necrophilia only involving consenting adults?

Isn't that a "personal liberty"?

Should prostitution be legal?

 

[Inspector Javert]

But you're asking the government to do just that with drug offenders aren't you?

Do what?.....
Act aggressively towards them?

I don't believe that the prosecution of a drug dealer with full due process of law is an act of aggression....

You seem to think so.
I think that's stupid.

What's the difference if you initiate the aggression or you have the government do it for you?

Prosecuting drug dealers isn't an "act of aggression"...
it's righteousness...
You should look that concept up.

Do you believe your hands are clean because you had a government agent initiate aggression on another?

1.) I am that Government agent.

2.) I punish evil-doers.

3.) That's my job

4.) I like my job.

5.) I am paid better than you are for doing it.

6.) I sleep like a baby.

7.) Keep paying your taxes...I want a secure retirement.

 

[Inspector Javert]

Here's what I believe should be done to those who produce or distribute child pornography. Charge them, try them in a court of law by a jury and if they are found guilty take them to the village square and hang them by the neck until they are dead so all can see their fate.

I agree......

But that will cut into that meaningless and stupid statistic you love about the "prison-population vs. overall population" all liberals carp about.

I doubt even you are that "conservative".

I am conservative....I'm not a Libertine.

 

[Inspector Javert]

And who are the victims?

Every member who wishes to live freely and safely in a civilized society....
Not just family members.....
but yes, them too.

The drug addict's families?

You are a victim...
You fail to see it.

Now you would double that by locking away their family member for years and causing them even more anguish.

The families of rapists suffer from their family member being locked away.
The families of insider traders suffer from having their family member locked away.
The families of bank-robbers suffer from having their family member locked away.
The families of murderers suffer from having their family member locked away.

Any other complaints??????

 

[Winman]

Hey Inspector!

Here's a video for you guys out fighting the war!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUScdrsMzpM

 

[Inspector Javert]

The jails are full already, the "land of the free" has the largest prison population on earth!

Now it's time to talk about this meaningless statistic.
You seem to think that we must automatically assume that that means we have illegalized too much, but is that so?

Lemme give some things which demonstrate how short-sighted that is:

1.) Almost EVERY other nation on Earth (which you are comparing us to) illegalizes the SAME drugs.....so that can't be why
2.) Many nations (especially Western ones) have preposerously low punishments and short sentences for even the most heinous of crimes....compare Britain....(the average car theif spends less than two years in prison)
3.) Many societies have a much smaller criminal element....How many riotous, violent, drug-addled thugs do you think Singapore has?....Japan?....South Korea?
3.) The U.S. has the technology money and means to prosecute far more crimes than other less wealthy nations.....(we solve a higher percentage of crimes than many countries do).
4.) We are less free with the death penalty than some.....(If we actually hung child pornographers by the neck like we both agree we should).....THAN THE PRISON POPULATION WOULD GO DOWN WOULDN'T IT!!!


DUH....

Has it stopped drug use?

Prosecuting Murder has not stopped it from occuring....
Should we legalize it?

Has it even lessened it?

Any sane person would know it has....as does illegalizing and punishing ANYTHING always lessens it throughout the course of human history.....
of course it has..

No.

Think again.

But it has torn mothers from children and children from their families for simple non violent drug use.

Martha Stewart's simple, non-violent insider-trading tore her from her family and children....
for simple, non-violent sales of stocks she legally purchased.....
AWW...poor baby.....

 

[Inspector Javert]

....sorry...I have to do this in shorter bursts or the server acts up... I don't know why...

But you'd probably rather not think about that aspect of it.

I think about it all day, every day....I work in Law Enforcement.....
I can give you the first and last names of scores of drug-offenders I work with every day....
I also see their families on a regular basis.

I know them more up-close and personal than you do.

And for sure you'd rather avoid thinking about what happens to the non violent drug "offender" in the prison you would have them locked away in where there are real criminals

Drug offender ARE "REAL CRIMINALS"

that will do unspeakable things to them.

They aren't "unspeakable".....I can talk to you all day about them...
And I know this much...
You watch too much t.v.

Too many movies...
Prisons are NOTHING like you think.

Are these not victims of your government intervention into the private lives of citizens?

No...they aren't "victims"...they are the due penitents suffering for their evil deeds....

Many of them don't see themselves as being half the "VICTIMS" that you think they are.

Many of them know EXACTLY why they are being punished.

But I guess in your mind they deserve what they get right?

Yes.

I mean after all they're only stupid drug users. They aren't nearly as smart and righteous as you.

Now you are simply preening yourself.

 

[Inspector Javert]

But yet you'd keep the black market in drugs healthy where only the drug cartels, big banks and violent gangs and government benefit.

By illegalizing and prosecuting human sex-trafficing, I ensure that only a "black-market" in the deed engaged in by violent gangs, cartels, and corrupt officials benefit....
Should we then make it legal and "REGULATE" it??

Look as long as there is a demand for a product someone is going to be supplying that demand.

There is still a demand for Christians kidnapped and sold as slaves in the Sudan.
There is still a demand for child pornography.
There is still a demand for human trafficers.
There is still a demand for coyotes to transport illegal immigrants.
There is still a demand for illicit drugs....What's your point???

Your way does nothing to reduce demand.

Yes it does. Illegalizing ANY activity ALWAYS has decreased its common occurence and "demand".
To think otherwise is stupidity.

It's been 40 years and the supply hasn't gone down. On the contrary it has increased and the drugs have become more powerful and more plentiful with no control over strength or purity.

So we should then have an intrusive government Bureacracy regulating the amount of T.H.C. in pot now?
We now need an intrusive tax-supported Government Bureacracy regulating the crack people smoke? :laugh::laugh:


We've also had 40 years of broken homes, illegitimate children and abyssmal public education. We have a greater criminal element altogether as society is breaking down....
That's part of the reason that the battle is up-hill...
ALL crime has been increasing in the last few decades on the whole....not just drug use.

You've encouraged an unregulated market of the worst kind.

We should have a Government Bureacracy regulating it now then... :laugh:

And by doing so you're putting millions at serious risk of dying from contaminated and or toxic combinations.

People who take Crystal Meth are putting themselves at risk....not me.
People who shoot heroin put themselves at serious risk....... not me.
They also put YOU at risk.

They are responsible for what they do...
You see....That's "CONSERVATISM"

You think it's "The Government's" fault that a crack addict might hurt himself....
That's liberal thinking.

Is that how we're suppose to love our neighbors?

You are still preening yourself....it doesn't become you.

I believe I've already "debunked" this.

Oh, o.k.

I just think we should be consistent. If we're going to call on government to protect us from harming ourselves

Drug addicts harm themselves and other people...and tend to wreck segments of society as a whole....
You don't get that.

I'm not surprised..

we shouldn't stop at half measures, because as you may have noticed lately the government won't. It'll take whatever power you allow it and expand on it till we have no liberty or freedom what so ever.

But wouldn't a regulated drug which prevents me from poinsoning myself be an example of government protecting me from "HARMING MYSELF"???
You are speaking out of both sides of your mouth because you haven't really thought this through.

Sorry, I couldn't reply in fewer posts...

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Hey Inspector!

Here's a video for you guys out fighting the war!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUScdrsMzpM

Is that Ponch standing around getting high from the second-hand smoke?

 

[Winman]

Is that Ponch standing around getting high from the second-hand smoke?

That's an old Monty Python skit. I probably shouldn't have posted it, Inspector Javert is being completely serious, and drugs are serious business.

Still, very funny skit.

 

[Inspector Javert]

LOL....:thumbsup:
Nice skit.

Winman, I don't know HOW you come up with these things :laugh:

 

[poncho]

Is that Ponch standing around getting high from the second-hand smoke?

Is that a hypocritical rule breaking, rude, insulting, false accuser, fascist big government loving authoritarian speaking again?

Why, yes it is.

Hey while we're on the subject of you being a total hypocritical rule breaking jerk you're old friends over at the "Christian Board" have been wondering what you've been up to since they last heard from you in April of last year so I'm putting together a collection of your more colorful Baptist Board quotes to show em.

Hope you don't mind . . .

 

[poncho]

Lemme guess.....you'll claim that they are consenting adults right?????

I'm assuming you are talking to me. So, let me start out by saying this is a ridiculous question.

But people have been arrested for engaging in cannibalism with a consenting adult.... Should it be legal for me to eat another consenting person who does themself in in order for me to cook and eat them???

Should someone be able to sell videos of acts of necrophilia only involving consenting adults?

Apples and oranges again?

Isn't that a "personal liberty"?

The more you type the more evident it becomes you haven't got a clue as to what individual liberty is. The fact that you have to keep constructing such ridiculous scenarios gives you away.

Should prostitution be legal?

That's a debate for another time.

 

[poncho]

Do what?.....
Act aggressively towards them?

I don't believe that the prosecution of a drug dealer with full due process of law is an act of aggression....

You seem to think so.
I think that's stupid.

Prosecuting drug dealers isn't an "act of aggression"...
it's righteousness...
You should look that concept up.

Drug dealers. Okay. You want to prosecute drug dealers. So do I. But here's the difference between you and I, I want the law to be applied equally. I believe if we are going to prosecute drug dealers then we should prosecute them all. Including crooked cops, judges and government agents that protect them. Your system breeds corruption and depends on intimidating innocent people.

In your system drug cartels such as the Sinaloa cartel are actually protected by those charged with bringing them to justice.

As you may have guessed by now I'm not real big on holding double standards.

1.) I am that Government agent.

That would explain much. Such as your lack of understanding the principles our nation was founded on.

2.) I punish evil-doers.

You punish them? Is that a "government agent's" job to punish people? Apparently you feel as a "government agent" you have been given "instant field judiciary powers" so I assume your real name must be Judge Dredd.

3.) That's my job

You seem to have a warped understanding of the authority given to "government agents" FKA public servants. As a public servant you were never given authority to "punish people" unless you are a judge or hangman. And judging from your words you are neither.

4.) I like my job.

I'm sure you do.

5.) I am paid better than you are for doing it.

:laugh: I seriously doubt that. :laugh:

6.) I sleep like a baby.

You debate like one to.

7.) Keep paying your taxes...I want a secure retirement.

Translated to mean "I am the establishment respect my authoritah!"

Word of warning. Being part of the system is no guarantee that you will be protected from it. Sooner or later it will turn on you and your's. There's always a "night of the long knives" in corrupt regimes.

 

[poncho]

I agree......

But that will cut into that meaningless and stupid statistic you love about the "prison-population vs. overall population" all liberals carp about.

Can you even make a point without using labels? I doubt it. You say these stats are meaningless. I'm no psychiatrist but it would seem that by saying this you are trying to fend off the pain associated with an episode of cognitive dissonance. That's when two conflicting beliefs come in contact with one another, such as believing America to be the "land of the free" and having the largest prison population on earth.

I am conservative....I'm not a Libertine.

No, you are an authoritarian who displays all the symptoms of a collectivist mindset that likes to kid yourself into believing you're a conservative.

 

[poncho]

Every member who wishes to live freely and safely in a civilized society....
Not just family members.....
but yes, them too.

You are a victim...
You fail to see it.

I am a victim of your system agreed. I am forced into giving up a certain amount of my freedom (fourth amendment protections) so you can attempt to use government force to do the impossible namely protect people from doing harm to themselves.

As I have said before this is not the proper role of government. The proper role of government is to protect my rights and my person from others who would cause me harm.

That's a principle found in the Declaration Of Independence. And it has been proven time and again throughout history. You seem to have an affinity for accusing others of being "liberals" and you also seem to have an affinity for using the "collectivist" argument that "the individual and his rights must be sacrificed for the greater good". That can only mean one thing . . . you are closer to being a "liberal" (collectivist) than I.

This nation wasn't founded on the principle of collectivism, it was founded on the principle of individualism. I suggest, again that you do some "inspecting" and learn what these two philosophies are and what the difference between these two very different philosophies are.

The families of rapists suffer from their family member being locked away.
The families of insider traders suffer from having their family member locked away.
The families of bank-robbers suffer from having their family member locked away.
The families of murderers suffer from having their family member locked away.

Any other complaints??????

All these are crimes of aggression against others and once again you are trying to equate them with crimes against oneself. Either you can't understand the difference or you simply refuse to acknowledge the difference.

It's going to be apples and oranges forever with you I guess.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43-BefmjMFg "I AM THE LAW!" Inspector Javert via Judge Dredd.

This is the world Inspector Javert an all the other authoritarians that like to pretend being "conservatives" who love to strip the individual of his rights to "make us all safe from ourselves" is helping to create. A prison planet.

God help us.

 

[Crabtownboy]

Who is willing to add alcohol to the list of illegal drugs? Alcohol is the drug of choice for a majority of Americans.

 

[poncho]

1.) I am that Government agent.

2.) I punish evil-doers.

3.) That's my job

4.) I like my job.

5.) I am paid better than you are for doing it.

6.) I sleep like a baby.

7.) Keep paying your taxes...I want a secure retirement.

Let's see if I'm a better detective than you.

You say you are a government agent. Well, let's explore this claim.

From the way you talk and confuse issues and showcase your lack of understanding of this nations founding principles and the idea of individual liberty I'm going to guess that you were an average student in school. Civics and philosophy weren't your best subjects.

You probably tried out for a sport maybe even made the team but didn't excel at it. People picked on you quite a bit in school and it made you bitter. You longed to have "authoritah".

After graduating in the middle of your class you attended a community college where you took a two year course most likely in "criminology".

Being a cop was your first choice but that didn't pan out for whatever reason so you became a prison guard instead. Well, who can blame you right? 20 years of babysitting for a big fat pension is hard to turn down and you got to wield that "authoritah" over others you yearned for.

Am I close?

I have to question your claim of being a "government agent" though. I suppose technically that would be correct if you worked as a guard in a prison that hasn't been privatized . . . that means under the control of one of the big corporate prison companies that promises to build new prisons and bring new jobs to depressed areas in exchange for government subsidies (tax money) and a guaranteed occupancy rate of 90 - 95%.

That means, more inmates = more profit for the corporation. Longer mandatory sentences for non violent crimes again = more profit for the corporation. There's a rather large lobby in Washington that urges congress on behalf of the private prison corporations to increase the length of prison sentences and create new "laws" to keep the prisons as close to full occupancy as possible. Overcrowded is even better! That means more prisons have to be built and more tax payer money can be had! It has nothing to do with protecting society anymore. It's all about partnering with government to squeeze the tax payer (society) for ever increasing corporate profits.

If you had studied your history in school (and if you did you probably didn't study this part of history as our un constitutional federalized education system frowns on such things being taught) you would recognize this as a condition known as "corporatism" or fascism by any other name. Which is basically government and corporate power merged.

No, fascists don't always look like nazis. Today they look like George Bush, Barrack Obama and most members of congress (both parties) and appear daily on our big screen TV's as "news anchors" and political pundits. They wear nice suits speak well and do whatever best serves the corporation's needs. Then there are the legions of people and we have quite a group of them here that are fascist supporters and they don't even realize it. If they did they wouldn't admit it anyway. But that's par for the course in corporate Amerika today.

And you probably still believe prisons are only for protecting society from "evil doers" as you call them. Little did you know that prisons have been turned into private cash generating machines at the expense of that very same society you'd probably rather go on thinking you are protecting. Am I right so far?

If indeed you are employed by a private prison corporation you would not be a "government agent" at all. You would be just another employee of a private corporation only and here's the rub you are living off other people's taxes via a corporatist (merging government power with corporate power) contract that binds the government and the corporation together into one legal parasitical entity that feeds off the same host (tax payer/society) so you can enjoy the luxury of being able to pretend being a "government agent" I mean you got a spiffy uniform and a shiny metal "badge" that "demands respect" to prove it right? Just curious where were they made? China perhaps?

I'm sure your family is very proud of you.

So how'd I do? Did I get it right?

Oh and before I forget . . . good luck with that pension. The international banks are going to seize it sooner or later to bail themselves out and pay off the government debt. :smilewinkgrin:

 

[Inspector Javert]

Poncho.....

I am not a prison guard.

I never wanted to be a cop.

I was not picked on in school.

I do not believe in Privatization of prisons, and I never have. It is an inherent conflict of interest which encourages corruption of the worst kind.

I didn't believe in it LOOOONG before you thought you'd educate us all about them.

You THINK you know what I believe about things because you have a template in your mind for how every one of us rubes who doesn't agree with you about drugs thinks....but you would be wrong.

I also happen to agree with some of the reforms the Obama Administration is doing about mandatory minimums for drug offenses etc....

And I wasn't being particularly serious about the pension anyway for two reasons
1.) I will be starting a private business next year and quitting my job anyway.
2.) I don't believe the U.S. dollar will be worth having by then anyway.

But why don't you stick to the topic at hand???

Start your own thread if you want to talk about prison reform and mandatory minimums, this thread isn't about that and it isn't about me. You are de-railing my thread. This is all irrelevant.

 

[poncho]

Poncho.....

I am not a prison guard.

I never wanted to be a cop.

I was not picked on in school.

I do not believe in Privatization of prisons, and I never have. It is an inherent conflict of interest which encourages corruption of the worst kind.

I didn't believe in it LOOOONG before you thought you'd educate us all about them.

You THINK you know what I believe about things because you have a template in your mind for how every one of us rubes who doesn't agree with you about drugs thinks....but you would be wrong.

I also happen to agree with some of the reforms the Obama Administration is doing about mandatory minimums for drug offenses etc....

And I wasn't being particularly serious about the pension anyway for two reasons
1.) I will be starting a private business next year and quitting my job anyway.
2.) I don't believe the U.S. dollar will be worth having by then anyway.

But why don't you stick to the topic at hand???

Start your own thread if you want to talk about prison reform and mandatory minimums, this thread isn't about that and it isn't about me. You are de-railing my thread. This is all irrelevant.

It's called back ground information. It's the information people need to make sense out of what's going on around them now.

Any inspecter worth his salt would know that.

But you're right this debate is done you lost it in the first few posts. When you proved to everyone that your opinions are based on prejudice instead of information. You let us all know that no matter what information was put forward that might prove the drug war a huge failed policy which it is you don't care because you think drug users are less than human and you don't care that the big banks launder billions of dollars a year for the drug cartels and the government itself is the biggest drug runner on the planet. See Iran Contra. You'd rather go on spending 80 - 90 billion a year on a failed policy than admit it's a failure. :smilewinkgrin: