Impossible simply because this is speaking of a future event, not a past event. Brother there is just no support for your claim. The further you go the bigger the hole is that you dig. You have already had to contradict yourself in saying the 1000 years already happened and then came back and said we are currently in the 1000 years. Which you still haven't addressed that. Is the 1000 years over or still going on?
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Dr. Stanley and Eternal Security
- Thread starter TCGreek
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Brother Bob
New Member
Would you please show me where I ever said we are in the 1000 years now?
Verse 4 says; "souls OF THEM", a part of a whole. If it was saying the whole man, there would of been no reason to add "OF THEM".
As far as any hole I might dig, I can live with that.
How anyone can take two past tense words, "lived and reigned", and make future tense out of them I don't understand.
I will stay with how Jesus said the end would be:
Jhn 5:28Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Jhn 5:29And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
It will be a "quick work" that He will do when He comes back again.
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Brother Bob
New Member
1Cr 15:20¶But now is Christ risen from the dead, [and] become the firstfruits of them that slept.
1Cr 15:23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
Mat 27:52And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
Mat 27:53And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
Jesus is not going to come out of the grave again, He already is the fruitfruits of them that slept.
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Because you said that Christ was reigning now. That means that we are in the 1000 years now. But you also said the 1000 years was over. Which is it?
Well unfortunately that's what I'm detecting. The problem is however you are in charge of the souls in your congregation and they won't be able to live with your hole
.Brother Bob surely you understand John was seeing this Revelation in a vision. This isn't a reality of what had happened in the past. This was a vision of what is going to take place in the future. The verb is not lived. The verb is lived again and it is not in the past tense in the original language. The same holds true for reigned. It is not in the past tense in the original language Brother Bob.
Now the English translation as past tense is okay here, because John is given a vision of things that happened after what he is taking about here, so within his vision these things can be seen as past tense, but this is a vision of the future not a historical account of the past.
Brother Bob
New Member
Because I believe the 1000 years is over and many of the bodies of the saints arose with Christ being the firstfruits of them that slept, does not mean that His reign is over, it only means that satan is loosed for a little season, which is now. If satan is not loose, I am missing something.
Rom 5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom 15:12 And again, Esaias saith, There shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall rise to reign over the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles trust.
1Cr 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet
1Cr 15:26 The last enemy [that] shall be destroyed [is] death.
Jhn 12:15 Fear not, daughter of Sion: behold, thy King cometh, sitting on an ass's colt.
Jhn 19:14 And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!
Luk 1:33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
He is my King, I don't know if you claim Him as your King or not.
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As far as any hole I might dig, I can live with that
.
Well unfortunately that's what I'm detecting. The problem is however you are in charge of the souls in your congregation and they won't be able to live with your hole
Let me tell you something JJ. You got your hands full taking care of yourself. As far as me and my congregation, we are on our
way to Heaven, and no one is going to get in the way, including you.
Vision or not vision, according to your theology it would be in the future for John and everyone else, except the Bible says in
the past. I just take the word of God. What you say, makes no sense to me. You are changing "past tense" to future to fit your theology. Christ will come, receive His church in the air and then pass judgement upon the world and satan.
BTW, I could say if people believed what you are advocating, then they could put off repentance until the 1000 years, then if you turn out to be wrong, you cause them all to go to hell. To cover people like yourself who are advocating a 1000 years, I tell my congregation to "repent now, while you know you got life and opportunity, for the 1000 years might not come as people are telling you. Believe me, they have heard of your theology, and do not like it". They believe we should seek the Lord in our youth, while He may be found.
If the Lord is not your King, you better try to get in before its too late. He will be coming back, and you better be ready, for you will not have a 1000 years to make it right.
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You are missing something. When has Satan ever been bound so that he was loosed from those bindings?
He is King whether we acknowledge it or not. However He is not currently acting as King. His reign is yet future. Just as David was annointed king over Israel, but Saul still held the throne for several years after David was annointed.
Who said I was trying to stand in your way of getting to heaven. That's another church tradition that you have never been able to give Scriptural backing for either, but that's another thread
And yes I do have a lot to be concerned with, but with I see someone in error I want to help them, ESPECIALLY when they are teaching their error to others who will believe it just because you told them to.
It's unreal how hard you are trying to hold on to something that is clearly not true. Brother Bob vision or not the two verbs are NOT past tense. They are in English, but they are NOT in Greek. You can not escape that vision or not.
But the genre of the writing is VERY important.
Then understand those two words are NOT past tense. They are TRANSLATED as past tense, but they are NOT past tense verbs.
It really is hard to believe that you aren't following this. John was on the physical island of Patmos. While he was on this real island he had a vision. Visions are not real. They are mental pictures of something that will happen in the future.
John was not writing about an event that had already taken place. He was writing about an event that was going to take place in the future.
That is not me taking something from the past and chaning it to the future to fit theology. That is merely understanding the Scripture. Revelation is a VISION.
Surely you have to understand that.
Actually Christ will come, receive His church in the air and then pass judgment on the church. Judgment always starts at the house of God. The Christ will rule over the earth for a 1000 years and then the Great White Throne Judgment will occur.
You are able to say anything. This is America. But just because you say something doesn't make it so. And I would not advocate people waiting for repentance. If they do they will be sorry. So please don't assume that's what I believe.
And I would tell believers that they need to repent now as well, because if they don't they will be sorry for the 1000 years. They will not get another opportunity.
I would encourage an unsaved person to believe on the Substitutionary death and shed blood of Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God, on their behalf a sinner today as well. Today is the day of salvation. There is no reason to put it off.
But that does not mean we have to misunderstand what is coming down the pike.
Actually I would be very surprised if they have, but they might. However it doesn't surprise me that they don't like it. Most of the people didn't like it when Jesus taught it either, so why would today be any different?
Amen! I believe that too, but do they know why they should be seeking him? And if they truly don't like what I believe then I already know the answer to that question
.I would agree whole heartedly! You only get one crack at entrance into the kingdom. After the door is shut it is shut.
here's my biblical paradigm:Brother Bob said:
There are 3 raptures to glory: 1) Christ and the firstfruits 30 AD, 2) them that are His at His coming soon in the air (1Thes 4:16, 1Cor 15:51, etal.), and 3) then shall He deliver up His kingdom to the Father postMK/1000 years reign. All this is 1Cor 15:28-29, Rev 20:11.
There are 2 resurrections to physical bodies: 1) "resurrection of the just" postrib of OT and trib saints + children/innocents (Rev 20:4, Mt 13:36-52, 25:13-40, Dan 12:2, Ezek 37:12-14, Psa 50:3-5, Job 14:13, 19:25-27, etal.) and 2) the 2nd resurrection post MK (Rev 20:11).
skypair
Brother Bob
New Member
Skypair;
What about many of the bodies of the saints arose after His resurrection and went into that Holy City?
Also, what about the hour that Jesus spoke of, that all in the grave shall come forth?
I am not going to argue about the 1000 year reign. You all believe what you think the scripture says, and I will believe what I think the scripture says, alway relying on what is in Revelation in in concert with Jesus scripture on how the resurrection will be. I really think you all make it complicated when we get over to the end. We agree on a lot but I believe that Christ will do a quick work.
I would like to ask you both a question, and base it all on the whole world fearing God.
1. In the end of time there will be earthquakes, darkness, and all will confess Jesus.
2. Now if you agree with number 1, has there ever been a time like that before?
Well, I can tell you by the word of God that the earth turned dark when the Lord was on the cross, there were great earth quakes, the veil rent from top to bottom, and...... there were confessions.
If what happened then, happened now, would a fear come on the earth such as never been. If the mountains were splitting in two and darkness over the whole earth, and people confessing, would anyone be out stealing, or would they be in a great fear?
Why did Jesus say this:
Hbr 12:26Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.
J.Jump;
Don't you know I feel you are the one in error "great error".
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Brother Bob
New Member
J. Jump;
Will you be in the thousand year reign? Will you even know when it is going on, or will you be in the grave? When you come out of the grave, will you even know it took place. If as I say, it is the souls and it has already happened, how would we know it? We can't see the souls of the departed? If it is just the souls, how can you or anyone else say it has not already happened? Can you prove to me it will be both soul and body that reigns with Christ? I know the rest of the dead will raise from the grave, but can you show me where the souls that lived and reigned (past tense), ever raised from the grave? If the souls did not raise from the dead, (remember they are the souls of the beheaded), but if the souls did not raise from the dead, how can it be a resurrection?
I would like for you to answer this question being you are so worried about the souls of mine and others congregations.
1. If I preach Jesus to be the way the truth and the life and the only way a man can be saved is to believe in Him.
2. If my congregation believes in Jesus, repents of their sins and is made alive in Christ Jesus, but they do not believe your thousand year reign.
Just because they do not understand what you are saying nor do they believe what you are saying, will that cause them to miss eternal life, even though they sought the Lord in their youth, was born again and made alive in Christ Jesus, and may even serve the Lord much more than you do????
3. All because we do not believe in a thousand year reign, of which I understand that none of us here will be in, will that cause us to miss eternal life, I ask you Sir? Have you been "beheaded" for the testimony of Jesus"?
4. What does the thousand year reign have to do with our salvation?
Will you be in the thousand year reign? Will you even know when it is going on, or will you be in the grave? When you come out of the grave, will you even know it took place. If as I say, it is the souls and it has already happened, how would we know it? We can't see the souls of the departed? If it is just the souls, how can you or anyone else say it has not already happened? Can you prove to me it will be both soul and body that reigns with Christ? I know the rest of the dead will raise from the grave, but can you show me where the souls that lived and reigned (past tense), ever raised from the grave? If the souls did not raise from the dead, (remember they are the souls of the beheaded), but if the souls did not raise from the dead, how can it be a resurrection?
I would like for you to answer this question being you are so worried about the souls of mine and others congregations.
1. If I preach Jesus to be the way the truth and the life and the only way a man can be saved is to believe in Him.
2. If my congregation believes in Jesus, repents of their sins and is made alive in Christ Jesus, but they do not believe your thousand year reign.
Just because they do not understand what you are saying nor do they believe what you are saying, will that cause them to miss eternal life, even though they sought the Lord in their youth, was born again and made alive in Christ Jesus, and may even serve the Lord much more than you do????
3. All because we do not believe in a thousand year reign, of which I understand that none of us here will be in, will that cause us to miss eternal life, I ask you Sir? Have you been "beheaded" for the testimony of Jesus"?
4. What does the thousand year reign have to do with our salvation?
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Oh I certainly know that you think that. However you haven't even been able to defend your own beliefs much less refute mine
. But I still like you Brother Bob :wavey:.To date I am doing all that I know Scripture requires of me to enter the kingdom of the heavens. However that is not a guarantee that I will continue. So at best I have a hope of glory.
Of course we will know it's going on and no we will not be in the grave. We will be reigning with Christ in the heavens. It's a literal reign with literal positions. And literal duties.
Should I not be taken out of this world by an accident or a quick moving disease I don't think I will see the grave. The rapture of the church is that close.
The reign will not just consist of the souls, but will consisted of a fully sanctified person, body, soul and spirit.
Nope and thankfully its not my job
. But if you don't believe in the first step why would you suddenly believe in the seventh step? That has always puzzled me about folks.No I can't show you that, because it hasn't happened yet. You've got to get off this past tense kick. Those verbs are NOT past tense. Will you ever admit to that? Brother Bob do you know Koine Greek at all? Just asking out of curiosity.
No that will not cause them to miss out on everlasting life. However they are going to be very displeased for a 1,000 years. And judgment will be even harder for you because you were their teacher and you could have helped them, but instead you are closing up the door of the kingdom to them just as the pharisees and saducees did in their day.
Again no that will not cause you to miss out on everlasting life. Once you are eternally saved your are saved. There is no chance that can ever be undone despite what some teach. Scripture backs this up.
However there is a 1000-year period that is going to take place before we step out into eternity. And 1000 years is a LONG time to be in the wrong spot!
I just checked and my head is still fully intact, despite what some others might say :laugh:.
It has NOTHING to do with eternal salvation. But the question is where are you going to spend the 1000 years. Only saved people can answer that question. You can either accept a position within Christ's coming kingdom or you can throw the offer back in His face as the nation of Israel did. The choice is ours to make.
Brother Bob
New Member
Don't you know I feel you are the one in error "great error".
Oh I certainly know that you think that. However you haven't even been able to defend your own beliefs much less refute mine . But I still like you Brother Bob .
You are the one who can't explain the past from the future not me.
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Will you be in the thousand year reign?
To date I am doing all that I know Scripture requires of me to enter the kingdom of the heavens. However that is not a guarantee that I will continue. So at best I have a hope of glory.
So you believe that the Kingdom of the heavens is the 1000 year reign. How do you explain the souls of those that were "beheaded". Do you plan on being "beheaded for the word" before you leave here some other way? How can you say the bodies will be there, when the scripture you are using say "souls of the beheaded", and you have already admitted that you can't prove the bodies will be in the thousand year reign?
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Will you even know when it is going on, or will you be in the grave?
Of course we will know it's going on and no we will not be in the grave. We will be reigning with Christ in the heavens. It's a literal reign with literal positions. And literal duties.
Yes, but its for those souls of them that were beheaded, of which you and I are not as of yet.
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When you come out of the grave, will you even know it took place.
Should I not be taken out of this world by an accident or a quick moving disease I don't think I will see the grave. The rapture of the church is that close.
Well, I believe the Resurrection is close, but we been preaching that for years and years. Thats what I mean when you try to judge the "time" of God, you get into trouble.
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If as I say, it is the souls and it has already happened, how would we know it?
The reign will not just consist of the souls, but will consisted of a fully sanctified person, body, soul and spirit.
Scripture says souls, you got some kind of inner connection the rest of us do not have?
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Can you prove to me it will be both soul and body that reigns with Christ?
Nope and thankfully its not my job. But if you don't believe in the first step why would you suddenly believe in the seventh step? That has always puzzled me about folks.
Well, finally we hit a note of agreement. If you can't prove it by scripture, then why are you trying to teach it to me? Seems to me you are the one who is getting boxed in now, when we start using scripture.
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but can you show me where the souls that lived and reigned (past tense), ever raised from the grave?
No I can't show you that, because it hasn't happened yet. You've got to get off this past tense kick. Those verbs are NOT past tense. Will you ever admit to that? Brother Bob do you know Koine Greek at all? Just asking out of curiosity.
No, I am able to run the greek words out but you said it didn't matter in this case for the english translation was ok.
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Just because they do not understand what you are saying nor do they believe what you are saying, will that cause them to miss eternal life, even though they sought the Lord in their youth, was born again and made alive in Christ Jesus, and may even serve the Lord much more than you do????
No that will not cause them to miss out on everlasting life. However they are going to be very displeased for a 1,000 years. And judgment will be even harder for you because you were their teacher and you could have helped them, but instead you are closing up the door of the kingdom to them just as the pharisees and saducees did in their day.
Well, a thousand years is as one day with the Lord, so it will be quick anyway. You can't even prove the bodies will be in that thousand year reign.
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3. All because we do not believe in a thousand year reign, of which I understand that none of us here will be in, will that cause us to miss eternal life,
Again no that will not cause you to miss out on everlasting life. Once you are eternally saved your are saved. There is no chance that can ever be undone despite what some teach. Scripture backs this up.
Glad to hear you say at least we may be able to be saved. That is my goal, to try to get as many souls saved as I can, even though I can't save anyone, including myself, but I can show them the way and who has eternal life to give.
However there is a 1000-year period that is going to take place before we step out into eternity. And 1000 years is a LONG time to be in the wrong spot!
Can you say for sure that a 1000 years is really a 1000 years of man's time? If so, how?
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Have you been "beheaded" for the testimony of Jesus"?
I just checked and my head is still fully intact, despite what some others might say :laugh:.
According to the only scripture we have on the thousand year reign, then you will not be there. If you have scripture showing others besides the "beheaded souls", please provide.
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4. What does the thousand year reign have to do with our salvation?
It has NOTHING to do with eternal salvation. But the question is where are you going to spend the 1000 years. Only saved people can answer that question. You can either accept a position within Christ's coming kingdom or you can throw the offer back in His face as the nation of Israel did. The choice is ours to make.
I JJ, would never do anything to cause me or anyone else to miss eternal life, just the opposite.
It seems to me all your arguing about a 1000 years has not affect whatsoever on the "saving of souls". Also you can't prove by scripture that our bodies will be in the 1000 year reign, according to your own words.
1Th 5:21Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
Oh I certainly know that you think that. However you haven't even been able to defend your own beliefs much less refute mine . But I still like you Brother Bob .
You are the one who can't explain the past from the future not me.
Quote:
Will you be in the thousand year reign?
To date I am doing all that I know Scripture requires of me to enter the kingdom of the heavens. However that is not a guarantee that I will continue. So at best I have a hope of glory.
So you believe that the Kingdom of the heavens is the 1000 year reign. How do you explain the souls of those that were "beheaded". Do you plan on being "beheaded for the word" before you leave here some other way? How can you say the bodies will be there, when the scripture you are using say "souls of the beheaded", and you have already admitted that you can't prove the bodies will be in the thousand year reign?
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Will you even know when it is going on, or will you be in the grave?
Of course we will know it's going on and no we will not be in the grave. We will be reigning with Christ in the heavens. It's a literal reign with literal positions. And literal duties.
Yes, but its for those souls of them that were beheaded, of which you and I are not as of yet.
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When you come out of the grave, will you even know it took place.
Should I not be taken out of this world by an accident or a quick moving disease I don't think I will see the grave. The rapture of the church is that close.
Well, I believe the Resurrection is close, but we been preaching that for years and years. Thats what I mean when you try to judge the "time" of God, you get into trouble.
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If as I say, it is the souls and it has already happened, how would we know it?
The reign will not just consist of the souls, but will consisted of a fully sanctified person, body, soul and spirit.
Scripture says souls, you got some kind of inner connection the rest of us do not have?
Quote:
Can you prove to me it will be both soul and body that reigns with Christ?
Nope and thankfully its not my job
. But if you don't believe in the first step why would you suddenly believe in the seventh step? That has always puzzled me about folks.Well, finally we hit a note of agreement. If you can't prove it by scripture, then why are you trying to teach it to me? Seems to me you are the one who is getting boxed in now, when we start using scripture.
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but can you show me where the souls that lived and reigned (past tense), ever raised from the grave?
No I can't show you that, because it hasn't happened yet. You've got to get off this past tense kick. Those verbs are NOT past tense. Will you ever admit to that? Brother Bob do you know Koine Greek at all? Just asking out of curiosity.
No, I am able to run the greek words out but you said it didn't matter in this case for the english translation was ok.
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Just because they do not understand what you are saying nor do they believe what you are saying, will that cause them to miss eternal life, even though they sought the Lord in their youth, was born again and made alive in Christ Jesus, and may even serve the Lord much more than you do????
No that will not cause them to miss out on everlasting life. However they are going to be very displeased for a 1,000 years. And judgment will be even harder for you because you were their teacher and you could have helped them, but instead you are closing up the door of the kingdom to them just as the pharisees and saducees did in their day.
Well, a thousand years is as one day with the Lord, so it will be quick anyway. You can't even prove the bodies will be in that thousand year reign.
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3. All because we do not believe in a thousand year reign, of which I understand that none of us here will be in, will that cause us to miss eternal life,
Again no that will not cause you to miss out on everlasting life. Once you are eternally saved your are saved. There is no chance that can ever be undone despite what some teach. Scripture backs this up.
Glad to hear you say at least we may be able to be saved. That is my goal, to try to get as many souls saved as I can, even though I can't save anyone, including myself, but I can show them the way and who has eternal life to give.
However there is a 1000-year period that is going to take place before we step out into eternity. And 1000 years is a LONG time to be in the wrong spot!
Can you say for sure that a 1000 years is really a 1000 years of man's time? If so, how?
Quote:
Have you been "beheaded" for the testimony of Jesus"?
I just checked and my head is still fully intact, despite what some others might say :laugh:.
According to the only scripture we have on the thousand year reign, then you will not be there. If you have scripture showing others besides the "beheaded souls", please provide.
Quote:
4. What does the thousand year reign have to do with our salvation?
It has NOTHING to do with eternal salvation. But the question is where are you going to spend the 1000 years. Only saved people can answer that question. You can either accept a position within Christ's coming kingdom or you can throw the offer back in His face as the nation of Israel did. The choice is ours to make.
I JJ, would never do anything to cause me or anyone else to miss eternal life, just the opposite.
It seems to me all your arguing about a 1000 years has not affect whatsoever on the "saving of souls". Also you can't prove by scripture that our bodies will be in the 1000 year reign, according to your own words.
1Th 5:21Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
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You really need to give this a rest. How long are you going to stick your head in the sand. The verbs are NOT past tense. Will that ever sink in? Again do you know Koine Greek?
I did not admit to such. And I don't know whether I will be beheaded or not. My guess is no, but one never knows.
No actually it is not. The kingdom is offered to every eternally saved individual not just those that were martyred. That particular text was speaking of ones that were, but that's not the only people the kingdom is offered to. Scripture makes this abundantly clear.
Well it certainly has gotten some into trouble, but God didn't lay out His plan so that we couldn't understand it. It's all laid out in Scripture for anyone that wants to know.
Oh Brother Bob. I didn't say I can't prove it with Scripture. I said that is not my job to prove it. Scripture needs no proof. Truth is just to be proclaimed. It need not be proven.
See this is one of the biggest problems within Christendom today. The "goal" is eternal salvation. But Scripture says this is just the beginning not the end.
I said the English translation was okay if you kept it in context of what was being spoken. You obviously are not. You are taking something prophetic (which means future) and turning into a past historical event.
You are changing the very word of Scripture. The Greek verbs are not past tense verbs. They are only showed in past tense because of the way Revelation is written. It's not past tense in the sense that these events have already happened, but past tense in that they had already taken place in the chronology of the vision.
HUGE difference there.
Well that is a misapplication of that text here. The 1,000 years is going to be exactly that a 1,000 years. Now to God a 1,000 years will be as just a day, but you and I are still humans and 1,000 years is going to be just like a thousand years.
Yes, but it would take a considerable amount of time and again you are asking me to go beyond step 1 when you don't even believe step 1. So I'm not sure what good it would do?
Again this would take a considerable amount of time and I'm still not sure why you want to continue in something your only going to say I don't believe that anyway. What would the point in continuing be Brother Bob?
The first step is understanding there is a future kingdom and that it will last 1,000 years. If we can't come to an agreement on the starting block how are we going to agree on anything else?
I didn't say miss eternal life. I said miss the kingdom. They are two separate things. And yes currently you are holding your congregation back. I don't say that to be cruel, just speaking the Truth. That's why it bothers me so much. There are other people involved when speaking to ministers.
It has EVERYTHING to do with the saving of our souls.
I don't know why you keep harping on this. I believe I even gave your Scripture. I Th tells us that Paul prayed that they would be sanctified wholly body, soul and spirit. Not sure how much more evidence you need than that.
Brother Bob
New Member
This is just a few scripture in NT where the Greek word is used of "reigned" and it is always in the past.
1 Corth. 4:8
8: Now ye are full, now ye are rich, ye have reigned as kings without us: and I would to God ye did reign, that we also might reign with you.
1 Corth 15:25
25: For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26: The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
Rom:5:14
14: Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses
Rom 5:17
17: For if by one man's offence death reigned by one
Rev. 19:6
6: And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.
Rev. 11: 17
17: Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
Rom 6:12
12: Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
1 Tim. 6:15
15: Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
Post#130
Bob Quote:
Can you prove to me it will be both soul and body that reigns with Christ?
J. Jump; Nope and thankfully its not my job
. But if you don't believe in the first step why would you suddenly believe in the seventh step? That has always puzzled me about folks.Bob; We are talking of the 1000 year reign here. Can you provide proof there will be others there besides the ones who were "beheaded".
I thought we would be glorified then, according to your theology, Kings and preists!!
Sorry J.Jump;
I just do not agree with you. I will never understand you separating the Kingdom from eternal life. (scratching head)
1Th 5:23¶And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and [I pray God] your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Nothing about a thousand years here J. Jump.
I believe the scripture though when Jesus comes to do a quick work, and take His children home.
Peace, BBob
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Brother Bob you are killing me with this past tense stuff. Revelation is a PROPHETIC VISION.
Seriously you have to understand that and just be sticking your head in the sand. Surely you understand that prophecy means future not past. Please tell me you understand this Brother Bob. :BangHead:
When you teach your people about prophecy do you teach them that it has already occured in the past tense? Prophecy happens in the future Brother Bob. Come on please . . . I'm begging you . . . please show me some signs that you get this.
I see you are back to taking things out of context. Let me explain this again. I can't prove anything to you just like you can't prove anything to me. That's not our job. Our job is just to proclaim Truth. Now yes I can proclaim the Truth to you that the whole person will rule and reign with Christ. There does that help? But I'll ask again what good would that do? We can't even get off step No. 1.Can you prove to me it will be both soul and body that reigns with Christ?
J. Jump; Nope and thankfully its not my job
We can't even get past prophecy as future events for cryin' out loud. How are we going to be able to move into stuff that's more difficult than that?
Brother Bob
New Member
J. Jump;
Is the Pale horse and his rider, riding now?
Was the seven churches in the past, or are they yet to come?
You are hitting a raw nerve talking about my congregation, I wish you wouldn't do that!!!!
1. You can't prove the bodies will be in the thousand year reign.
2. You can't prove that "lived" and reigned" is not past tense.
3. You can't prove where anyone else will be in the thousand year reign besides the souls of the "beheaded".
4. You can not even prove that you will be in the thousand year reign.
5. You can not show where Christ will be resurrected and be the first fruits of this thousand year reign.
6. Too many unknowns.
7. You can't show me where "being a part of His Kingdom" is not eternal life.
8. You readily admit that disgarding the 1000 year reign will not affect our eternal life.
I was looking forward to someone showing me answers to these questions.
Is the Pale horse and his rider, riding now?
Was the seven churches in the past, or are they yet to come?
You are hitting a raw nerve talking about my congregation, I wish you wouldn't do that!!!!
1. You can't prove the bodies will be in the thousand year reign.
2. You can't prove that "lived" and reigned" is not past tense.
3. You can't prove where anyone else will be in the thousand year reign besides the souls of the "beheaded".
4. You can not even prove that you will be in the thousand year reign.
5. You can not show where Christ will be resurrected and be the first fruits of this thousand year reign.
6. Too many unknowns.
7. You can't show me where "being a part of His Kingdom" is not eternal life.
8. You readily admit that disgarding the 1000 year reign will not affect our eternal life.
I was looking forward to someone showing me answers to these questions.
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Well it doesn't surprise me. However the Truth hurts sometimes. I don't believe that I have been mean spirited. I said I am concerned for them and for you. There is nothing mean spirited about that.
Well actually the seven churches were both literal and yes they existed in the past. They are also typical of the various stages "the" church would and will go through before judgment comes.
No I don't believe any of the horsemen have riden yet.
Well some of the questions I have answered. One of the most glaring ones is the lived again and reigned. But it looks as though you want to continue to stick your head in the sand on that issue, so be it.
Some of the others no I haven't, and why do you want them answered when you aren't going to believe the answers anyway? That makes no sense to me.
Brother Bob
New Member
I can give you scripture after scripture showing the use of that word and its in the past. You should at least figure out why it is one way in all the other scriptures and then this one its future, according to you.
You don't believe in the black horse either do you, that whatsoever a man soweth, so shall he reap.
YOu don't believe that satan took peace from the earth yet.
You don't believe that death is in our land either.
I also see that you don't care if you hit a raw nerve, even though you can't prove you theology, and keep saying "I like you Bro Bob" hmmmm
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Maybe this quote from Dana and Mantey Grammar might prove helpful to this discussion:
"The distinctive function of the verb is to express action. Action as presented in the expression of a verbal idea involves tow elements, time of action and kind of action. That is, the action may be described as occurring at a certain time, and must be described, if intelligible, as performed in a certain manner. Tense deals with these two aspects of verbal expression, kind of action being the chief idea involved, for time is but a minor consideration in the Greek tenses. (167)... The important element of tense in Greek is kind of action. (169).
"The distinctive function of the verb is to express action. Action as presented in the expression of a verbal idea involves tow elements, time of action and kind of action. That is, the action may be described as occurring at a certain time, and must be described, if intelligible, as performed in a certain manner. Tense deals with these two aspects of verbal expression, kind of action being the chief idea involved, for time is but a minor consideration in the Greek tenses. (167)... The important element of tense in Greek is kind of action. (169).
Let's try this and see if it works:
prophecy: the foretelling or prediction of what is to come.
Does that help?
Actually I do believe in all four horses and their riders.
I'm not sure why you would tie this in with the black horse, but Paul taught this very Truth and yes it is Truth and I wholeheartedly believe that a man will reap what he sows. If he sows to the flesh he will reap corruption. And if he sows to the Spirit he will reap life.
Brother Bob I can't say that I like that your nerve has been hit, but I can't control you. Again Truth hurts sometimes. And I will not apologize for speaking Truth. I'm not sure why showing concern for your well being and your congregation should it a nerve, but I understand why it has more than likely.
If God had entrusted a number of souls to me I would certainly want someone to point out the errors of my ways if they found me in error.
As to proving whether or not it is true well you can think that if you like, but it doesn't make it so. Truth is true whether you believe it or not. It doesn't change.
I do like you Brother Bob. That's why I talk to you a lot. I am truly concerned for you, but I guess you don't believe that either. :tear:
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