Dreams

[GoodTidings]

I wasn't saying you have to trust someone else's vision. However if you had one that God spoke to you and what He said lined up with scripture maybe you had better believe it.
MB

I have never had a vision and I don't care if I ever do. I don't need a vision to line up with the Bible. I have the Bible. It is God's revelation and self-disclosure to mankind. I have the abiding presence of the Holy Spirit. There is nothing He cannot say to me in a vision that He would already say to me through His Word.

 

[GoodTidings]

That verse does not say "God has nothing to say to us apart from Jesus". That is an incorrect interpretation of that passage. For instance Peter had a dream and that since the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus. I do believe if someone said they had a dream or vision it would need to be measured against scripture. The abuse of dreams and visions is not a reason to object to them.

It is not an incorrect interpretation at all. God spoke in the past through dreams and visions, through prophets and miracles. But now Jesus is God's final word to us. Everything He has to say to us of a revelatory nature has been said. We find it in the Scriptures. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is God's final message to us.

 

[GoodTidings]

There will be no need for dreams and visions in the millennium. That will truly be "face to face".

We don't know what the millennium will look like, at least not in its entirety. My point was not about dreams and visions in the millennium, but about the fact that God has not poured out His Spirt on all flesh, yet. If dreams and visions are present in the millennium, they will not be like the stuff we see today that is being passed off as "dreams and visions."

 

[GoodTidings]

Not true. My heart is slowly failing, the Bible does not address the need.

Your physical heart is failing?

When a believer is at rest, the brain doesn’t shut off. As the sleep cycles through the stages, dreams occur. More often these expose that which is hidden from public view. Areas that need attending in submission to the work and Word.

The question is not what you need, but in what the Holy Spirit chooses to goad you into searching out in the Scriptures.

For example, dreams of grandeur or persecution may indicate a certain lack in reliance. Dreams of inappropriate erotic things may indicate danger.

Too often when awake, the self censorship is turn on and one does not even realize a little fox has slipped under the fence. Or such is dismissed as just another thwarted enemy attack.

But the Holy Spirit, while we are at rest, may return raising an alarm, granting us assurance, providing hope, or a host of other needs in which without dreams would not be realized.

The dreams we have when asleep are not the kind of dreams that are in dispute in this thread.

 

[MB]

I have never had a vision and I don't care if I ever do. I don't need a vision to line up with the Bible. I have the Bible. It is God's revelation and self-disclosure to mankind. I have the abiding presence of the Holy Spirit. There is nothing He cannot say to me in a vision that He would already say to me through His Word.

It;s a free country you can believe anything you want to. Although all things are possible with God. There are no verses in the Bible to support a restricted God. There are verses to support visions and dreams and there meanings. It even states old men will have dreams
MB

 

[Revmitchell]

It is not an incorrect interpretation at all. God spoke in the past through dreams and visions, through prophets and miracles. But now Jesus is God's final word to us. Everything He has to say to us of a revelatory nature has been said. We find it in the Scriptures. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is God's final message to us.

Wait woah! You completely skipped over the dream peter had. Why? Further, the passage in Hebrews was not written when there was knowledge of a completed cannon. What you have done is misused that passage. Your interpretation is eisegetical.

 

[GoodTidings]

We don't know what the millennium will look like.

It;s a free country you can believe anything you want to. Although all things are possible with God. There are no verses in the Bible to support a restricted God. There are verses to support visions and dreams and there meanings. It even states old men will have dreams
MB

It's not about restricting God. I am saying anything about what God can or cannot do. I am saying that visions and dreams occurred at a time when there was no completed canon. Most dreams back then were revelatory in nature. The fact is that there is no further revelation from God. Jesus is the final word from God. Our canon is complete and we have everything we need.

Most false teaching today comes from people claiming to have revelatory dreams and visions and "prophecies" from God.

 

[GoodTidings]

Wait woah! You completely skipped over the dream peter had. Why? Further, the passage in Hebrews was not written when there was knowledge of a completed cannon. What you have done is misused that passage. Your interpretation is eisegetical.

I forgot to mention that dream. It was revelatory in nature. We don't have need for revelatory dreams when we have the full canon of Scripture. There is no further theological/doctrinal revelation from God today. The Bible has a back cover for a reason. If we start getting new information through dreams and visions, there is a huge problem for us in determining which visions are actually from the Lord or not.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Could God speak to us today through dreams? I think a pertinent question to ask is why would He need to? What is it that God can reveal to us in a dream that is not already revealed in the written word?

Reinforcement

 

[agedman]

We don't know what the millennium will look like, at least not in its entirety. My point was not about dreams and visions in the millennium, but about the fact that God has not poured out His Spirt on all flesh, yet. If dreams and visions are present in the millennium, they will not be like the stuff we see today that is being passed off as "dreams and visions."

This verse is not a millennial reign verse:

And in the last days it shall be, God declares, that I will pour out my Spirit upon all flesh, and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams.​

The "last days" refers to the time from the day of Pentecost to the end of the age of Grace. This time. A time when apostasy is growing, persecution is enlarging, and believers will be without the Scriptures in their hand but must rely upon that implanted in the heart, by the memorization and work of the Holy Spirit.

I was active during the years when the communist block regularly imprisoned pastors and preacher who would not submit to state control.
More often these would share how God would visit them in the midst of the most stress filled times, and remind them of the Scriptures, at times these didn't know if they dreamed or were awake.




The Holy Spirit is poured out on all flesh as Christ said, "And when he (Holy Spirit) comes, he will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment:..."

This coming of the Holy Spirit was recorded in the book of Acts.

 

[agedman]

Your physical heart is failing?


The dreams we have when asleep are not the kind of dreams that are in dispute in this thread.

Are you then writing of day dreams?

The OP didn't include visions.

 

[GoodTidings]

Are you then writing of day dreams?

The OP didn't include visions.

No, I am not talking about day dreams.

 

[GoodTidings]

This verse is not a millennial reign verse:

And in the last days it shall be, God declares, that I will pour out my Spirit upon all flesh, and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams.​

The "last days" refers to the time from the day of Pentecost to the end of the age of Grace. This time. A time when apostasy is growing, persecution is enlarging, and believers will be without the Scriptures in their hand but must rely upon that implanted in the heart, by the memorization and work of the Holy Spirit.

I was active during the years when the communist block regularly imprisoned pastors and preacher who would not submit to state control.
More often these would share how God would visit them in the midst of the most stress filled times, and remind them of the Scriptures, at times these didn't know if they dreamed or were awake.




The Holy Spirit is poured out on all flesh as Christ said, "And when he (Holy Spirit) comes, he will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment:..."

This coming of the Holy Spirit was recorded in the book of Acts.

The Holy Spirit has not been poured out on all flesh. But the ultimate fulfillment of that verse has not occurred and will not occur until the millennium. You cannot look at the world or much of the Church and say that the Holy Spirit has been poured out on "all flesh."

 

[GoodTidings]

Reinforcement

Why would the Word of God need reinforcement?

 

[Revmitchell]

I forgot to mention that dream. It was revelatory in nature. We don't have need for revelatory dreams when we have the full canon of Scripture. There is no further theological/doctrinal revelation from God today. The Bible has a back cover for a reason. If we start getting new information through dreams and visions, there is a huge problem for us in determining which visions are actually from the Lord or not.

Now you have moved the goal post. Before you said it was since Jesus Christ. Now you say it is the back cover of the Bible. Which is it?

 

[GoodTidings]

Now you have moved the goal post. Before you said it was since Jesus Christ. Now you say it is the back cover of the Bible. Which is it?

I have not moved any goal posts. Jesus is God's final Word of God to man. Yes the final revelation of Jesus was the book of Revelation. I don't see the problem with understanding that there are no further revelations from God, and thus there will not be any more special visions or dreams from God. He has revealed all He is going to reveal to us. Everything I have said is internally consistent.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Why would the Word of God need reinforcement?

When ya don’t get it the 1st time

 

[Revmitchell]

I have not moved any goal posts. Jesus is God's final Word of God to man. Yes the final revelation of Jesus was the book of Revelation. I don't see the problem with understanding that there are no further revelations from God, and thus there will not be any more special visions or dreams from God. He has revealed all He is going to reveal to us. Everything I have said is internally consistent.

What I am saying is you have not proven your point. The one scripture you used has nothing to do with your claim

 

[InTheLight]

No, I am not talking about day dreams.

I am skeptical of people that claim to get revelation from God via dreams. But what do you say to missionaries that report hundreds and thousands of conversions of Muslims that claim to have dreams about Jesus that causes them to read the Bible and/or seek out answers?

 

[GoodTidings]

What I am saying is you have not proven your point. The one scripture you used has nothing to do with your claim

Jesus is the final revelation of God to man. God spoke to us in various ways in the past, but Jesus is how God speaks to us today. Expanding on that fact, we don't need visions and dreams and God is not sending us dreams and visions since Jesus is God's final message to us. Everything God has to say to us is wrapped up in the Person and ministry of Jesus.