Dreams

[GoodTidings]

When ya don’t get it the 1st time

That's not an issue of the Bible needing reinforcement. The Bible doesn't need any help. The problem is with us, not in any deficiency in the Bible.

 

[GoodTidings]

I am skeptical of people that claim to get revelation from God via dreams. But what do you say to missionaries that report hundreds and thousands of conversions of Muslims that claim to have dreams about Jesus that causes them to read the Bible and/or seek out answers?

I am skeptical of those claims

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

That's not an issue of the Bible needing reinforcement. The Bible doesn't need any help. The problem is with us, not in any deficiency in the Bible.

Before or after regeneration?

 

[Revmitchell]

Jesus is the final revelation of God to man. God spoke to us in various ways in the past, but Jesus is how God speaks to us today. Expanding on that fact, we don't need visions and dreams and God is not sending us dreams and visions since Jesus is God's final message to us. Everything God has to say to us is wrapped up in the Person and ministry of Jesus.

That is your personal philosophy not proof of your point. Can you provide clear biblical proof there are no dreams or visions from God anymore?

 

[GoodTidings]

Before or after regeneration?

There is no inability for someone to read and understand the Gospel before they are saved. They don't have to be "regenerated" to understand and respond to the Gospel message.

 

[Revmitchell]

There is no inability for someone to read and understand the Gospel before they are saved. They don't have to be "regenerated" to understand and respond to the Gospel message.

Great! Now show us from scripture.

 

[GoodTidings]

That is your personal philosophy not proof of your point. Can you provide clear biblical proof there are no dreams or visions from God anymore?

I think that verse pretty much sinks future visions and dreams from the Lord. He is speaking to us through His Son, not through visions and dreams. In fact, there is no biblical basis for the NT Church to be receiving dreams and visions any longer. Paul points us to the Word of God which is wholly inspired and good for doctrine, reproof, correction and instruction in righteousness. All that we need to know is found in the Bible.

If anything, it is YOU that needs to show that the Bible is insufficient and needs to be supplemented by additional visions and dreams.

 

[GoodTidings]

Great! Now show us from scripture.

The Bible says nothing about a person needing to be regenerated in order to hear and receive the Gospel. That concept is not in the Bible. That is a Calvinist teaching that has no basis in biblical theology. You are the one that needs to support that unbiblical teaching.

 

[Revmitchell]

I think that verse pretty much sinks future visions and dreams from the Lord. He is speaking to us through His Son, not through visions and dreams. In fact, there is no biblical basis for the NT Church to be receiving dreams and visions any longer. Paul points us to the Word of God which is wholly inspired and good for doctrine, reproof, correction and instruction in righteousness. All that we need to know is found in the Bible.

If anything, it is YOU that needs to show that the Bible is insufficient and needs to be supplemented by additional visions and dreams.

Wait so you do not make a clear distinction between Jesus and the word of God so that you can misuse that verse you quoted?

 

[GoodTidings]

Wait so you do not make a clear distinction between Jesus and the word of God so that you can misuse that verse you quoted?

What I am saying is that God's final message, His final revelation of Himself to the world is Jesus. God spoke to mankind differently in the past, through the visions and dreams of the prophets and now He is speaking to us through Jesus. That revelation is contained in the Bible. In addition to that, we don't need dreams and visions to guide us because we have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit who illuminates the Scriptures to us. The Scriptures reveal who Jesus is and the Holy Spirit illuminates that revelation to our hearts. That complete eliminates the need for visions and dreams.

 

[Revmitchell]

The Bible says nothing about a person needing to be regenerated in order to hear and receive the Gospel. That concept is not in the Bible. That is a Calvinist teaching that has no basis in biblical theology. You are the one that needs to support that unbiblical teaching.

I never said I support it, so no, no I don't. You made the claim without support.

 

[Revmitchell]

What I am saying is that God's final message, His final revelation of Himself to the world is Jesus. God spoke to mankind differently in the past, through the visions and dreams of the prophets and now He is speaking to us through Jesus. That revelation is contained in the Bible. In addition to that, we don't need dreams and visions to guide us because we have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit who illuminates the Scriptures to us. The Scriptures reveal who Jesus is and the Holy Spirit illuminates that revelation to our hearts. That complete eliminates the need for visions and dreams.

Sorry none of that proves a lack of need.

 

[GoodTidings]

I never said I support it, so no, no I don't. You made the claim without support.

If I am wrong, refute it. If not, it stands as is.

 

[37818]

Do you think that God could speak to us in this day and age via a dream?

No. Because of the seal the Holy Spirit placed in the Revelation of Jesus Christ, Revelation 1:1-3. Revelation 22:18-19. v.18, ". . . I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, . . ."

 

[GoodTidings]

Sorry none of that proves a lack of need.

Yeah, it does. There is nothing a vision can do that the indwelling of the Holy Spirit can't already do. If you have God living inside you guiding you, enlightening the eyes of your heart, illuminating His Word, providing an inner witness to your heart, why would you need a vision? Why isn't the Holy Spirit and the Word of God enough?

 

[Revmitchell]

If I am wrong, refute it. If not, it stands as is.

Stands as is???......You haven't proven anything, and apparently don't care to or can't. If you want your statement to "stand as is" that is all you. I am ok with you being wrong. God bless.

 

[MB]

My point was these are not normal in that we don't see them occurring as a normal part of the Christian life. Zecharias was actually visited by an angel. It wasn't a mere vision of an angel. God worked in dreams and visions then, but we are not to treat them as part of the regular Christian experience.

The Bible doesn't say that at all and if your pastor told you that he is wrong.

In NT times, there was no complete canon, and so there were visions and dreams, but even then they were rare AND they were not revelatory in the case of Cornelius, Ananias, the wise men, pilate's wife, or Zecharias.

Do you really believe they weren't revelatory? I have never seen anything in scripture that isn't revelatory. If they weren't then these instances should not be in scripture. Is this what you are saying?

What we see today are people trying to use their alleged visions or dreams as a means of teaching something. We have the indwelling Holy Spirit to speak to us and His primary mode of speaking to us is through the illumination of God's word to our hearts.

I agree with this last statement, yet this statement does not eliminate the possibility of visions and dreams. As I said before "All things are possible with God" I don't believe we should ignore it
MB

 

[agedman]

The Holy Spirit has not been poured out on all flesh. But the ultimate fulfillment of that verse has not occurred and will not occur until the millennium. You cannot look at the world or much of the Church and say that the Holy Spirit has been poured out on "all flesh."

I presented that the Holy Spirit is poured out on all flesh at this time and is doing exactly what the Christ stated. There is no Scripture that I recall of the work of the Holy Spirit toward the whole world other than what I posted. I did not recal at any point finding any presentation of the Holy Spirit during the millennial reign in any salvation capacity.

You seem to think the Holy Spirit is only given to the believers and has no dealings with the unregenerate. That thinking does not conform to the statement of Christ as to why the Holy Spirit was sent to the World.

The Spirit of God is a comforter to the assembly. and one that convicts all.

 

[agedman]

I have not moved any goal posts. Jesus is God's final Word of God to man. Yes the final revelation of Jesus was the book of Revelation. I don't see the problem with understanding that there are no further revelations from God, and thus there will not be any more special visions or dreams from God. He has revealed all He is going to reveal to us. Everything I have said is internally consistent.

You are mixing revelation, visions, and dreams.

The OP is about dreams not visions.

 

[GoodTidings]

The Bible doesn't say that at all and if your pastor told you that he is wrong.

The Bible never treats visions as the normal experience of the average Christian in the NT or the average Jew in the OT. They happened rarely in Scripture. We should not be treating them as if every Christian can or should be receiving visions from God as a normal, regular occurrence.

Do you really believe they weren't revelatory? I have never seen anything in scripture that isn't revelatory. If they weren't then these instances should not be in scripture. Is this what you are saying?

When I say "revelatory" I am talking about doctrinally or theologically revelatory.

I agree with this last statement, yet this statement does not eliminate the possibility of visions and dreams. As I said before "All things are possible with God" I don't believe we should ignore it
MB

I am not disputing what is possible. I am speaking to the fact that visions and dreams served a purpose in redemptive history and now God is speaking to us through a completed canon. The revelations have ceased, there is no new information being revealed to the Body of Christ. Our focus needs to be on the Word of God and allowing the Holy Spirit to illuminate it to our hearts.