Dreams

[GoodTidings]

Stands as is???......You haven't proven anything, and apparently don't care to or can't. If you want your statement to "stand as is" that is all you. I am ok with you being wrong. God bless.

If you can't refute it, then it stands as is. If I am wrong, in what I said, show me. If not, I will not lose any sleep over what you think about it.

 

[GoodTidings]

I presented that the Holy Spirit is poured out on all flesh at this time and is doing exactly what the Christ stated.

There is no way you can look at the sin and destruction tha tis happening in this world and seriously claim that the Holy Spirit is poured out on "all flesh." That is simply not supported by condition this world is in.

You seem to think the Holy Spirit is only given to the believers and has no dealings with the unregenerate.

Wrong. All I said is that the Holy Spirit is not poured out on all flesh.

The Spirit of God is a comforter to the assembly. and one that convicts all.

Which underscores why we don't need dreams or visions.

 

[GoodTidings]

You are mixing revelation, visions, and dreams.

The OP is about dreams not visions.

Okay, but the purpose of dreams sent by God is revelatory and there is no more revelation from God.

 

[InTheLight]

I am skeptical of those claims

So was I. But many of these Muslims had never heard the name of Jesus before and yet were dreaming about him. Through some means or another they subsequently heard the Gospel and became believers. There are ministries built around this phenomena. We've had Muslim converts speak at my church. I am no longer skeptical. I would not limit the power of God by dogmatically clinging to a belief of all dreams having ceased, that is sketchy, at best, in scripture.

 

[InTheLight]

Okay, but the purpose of dreams sent by God is revelatory and there is no more revelation from God.

Well, it could be the Holy Spirit drawing people to God. Who are we to say?

 

[InTheLight]

I am not disputing what is possible. I am speaking to the fact that visions and dreams served a purpose in redemptive history and now God is speaking to us through a completed canon. The revelations have ceased, there is no new information being revealed to the Body of Christ.

In many cases, Muslims do not have access to Bibles. Many don't even know there IS a Bible. Or if there is they can't read it. Yet they have dreams about Jesus being the sacrificial lamb of God.

 

[Iconoclast]

Let's not forget the virgin Mary appeared to the three little girls at Lourdes and told them to pray the rosary.

 

[MB]

Where does scripture state that dreams and visions have ceased as a means of communication between God and His children.. It does not say such a thing. What you believe is the opinion of the teacher who has taught you, Not biblical fact. Personally I rely on God's word to tell me when something has ceased or not.
MB

 

[Iconoclast]

The Bible says nothing about a person needing to be regenerated in order to hear and receive the Gospel. That concept is not in the Bible. That is a Calvinist teaching that has no basis in biblical theology. You are the one that needs to support that unbiblical teaching.

Except for 1 cor2:14, and Roman's 8:7.
They cannot because they do not have the Spirit, they must be born from above

 

[agedman]

Yeah, it does. There is nothing a vision can do that the indwelling of the Holy Spirit can't already do. If you have God living inside you guiding you, enlightening the eyes of your heart, illuminating His Word, providing an inner witness to your heart, why would you need a vision? Why isn't the Holy Spirit and the Word of God enough?

Let me see if I have your thinking correct.

The Bible is sufficient for all issues, yet can’t fix my heart.

The Bible is complete and the unregenerate can read and understand it contrary to 1 Corinthians 2:14.

The Holy Spirit is not poured out upon the whole world contrary to John 16:8+

The Holy Spirit and the Word of God enlightens the eyes, illuminates the Word, guides the believer, yet does all this without a person dreaming or getting a vision of their calling contrary to Acts 9.

Hmmm

 

[Reynolds]

We don't know what the millennium will look like, at least not in its entirety. My point was not about dreams and visions in the millennium, but about the fact that God has not poured out His Spirt on all flesh, yet. If dreams and visions are present in the millennium, they will not be like the stuff we see today that is being passed off as "dreams and visions."

Double speak.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

There is no inability for someone to read and understand the Gospel before they are saved. They don't have to be "regenerated" to understand and respond to the Gospel message.

No... what’s Ephesians 2:8-9 telling you .And how about 1st Corinthians 2:14

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Double speak.

Yes, unfortunately

 

[GoodTidings]

In many cases, Muslims do not have access to Bibles. Many don't even know there IS a Bible. Or if there is they can't read it. Yet they have dreams about Jesus being the sacrificial lamb of God.

So some allege. I don't necessarily believe those accounts.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Let's not forget the virgin Mary appeared to the three little girls at Lourdes and told them to pray the rosary.

Lloyd-Jones believes it to be the RCC trying to steal away the deeds of the HS and crediting it to the Virgin Mother. Then what does the HS do?

 

[GoodTidings]

Let me see if I have your thinking correct.

The Bible is sufficient for all issues, yet can’t fix my heart.

What I said is that the Bible contains all that we need to meet the needs of the human heart (soul/spirit).

The Bible is complete and the unregenerate can read and understand it contrary to 1 Corinthians 2:14.

The Bible's message of salvation can be understood and accepted by the unregenerate. The Bible is not a completely closed book to sinners.

The Holy Spirit is not poured out upon the whole world contrary to John 16:8+

I am not contradicting John 16:8. It is not talking about the Holy Spirit being poured out on the whole world. You are adding to that text.

The Holy Spirit and the Word of God enlightens the eyes, illuminates the Word, guides the believer, yet does all this without a person dreaming or getting a vision of their calling contrary to Acts 9.

Acts 9 is a historical account, and is not providing us with a doctrine. It is descriptive, not prescriptive. It is not saying that this is a normal everyday experience for the average Christian.

And I find it interesting that while you attempt to correct me about the OP only talking about dreams, that you cite a vision from Acts 9 to respond to me.

 

[GoodTidings]

So was I. But many of these Muslims had never heard the name of Jesus before and yet were dreaming about him. Through some means or another they subsequently heard the Gospel and became believers. There are ministries built around this phenomena. We've had Muslim converts speak at my church. I am no longer skeptical. I would not limit the power of God by dogmatically clinging to a belief of all dreams having ceased, that is sketchy, at best, in scripture.

I find it interesting that we don't see these hundreds of thousands of occurrences in other areas of the world where people have never heard of a Bible or Jesus or anything like that.

I know some missionaries in areas of the Muslim world that are quite hostile to the gospel, who have never mentioned any of these experiences. I have heard of many Muslim conversions due to the fact that ISIS actually drove Muslims to seek out Christians and these missionaries have led them to the Lord, but of the many accounts these missionaries relate, not one of them have encountered a Muslim who claims to have had a vision from Jesus.

It reminds me of the undocumented claims by some that they are seeing people raised from the dead or growing new arms and legs and stuff, but can't seem to ever produce clear proof of such things.

 

[GoodTidings]

No... what’s Ephesians 2:8-9 telling you .And how about 1st Corinthians 2:14

Neither of those indicate that we need to be regenerated in order to receive the Gospel. Eph. 2:8,9 is about the fact that we are not saved by works, but are saved by grace through faith. I Cor. 2:14 says that the natural man cannot receive the things of God, but that is in a context discussing the deep spiritual truths of Scripture. It does't mean that he has to be regenerated to hear and receive the Gospel message.

 

[GoodTidings]

Double speak.

No double speak at all.

 

[agedman]

What I said is that the Bible contains all that we need to meet the needs of the human heart (soul/spirit).

That isn't what is supported by Scripture statement:

“All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,”
​

It does not say “meet the needs of the human heart.” That is adding on to the intent of the Scriptures.

​

The Bible's message of salvation can be understood and accepted by the unregenerate. The Bible is not a completely closed book to sinners.

That statement is contrary to the presentation of the unregenerate level of ability as shown in places such as 1 Corinthians 2.

I am not contradicting John 16:8. It is not talking about the Holy Spirit being poured out on the whole world. You are adding to that text.

I added nothing to the text.

The TEXT states WORLD, I take the text at value. World means world, and not a select few as a subset of the whole.

Reading comprehension is not one of my current deficiencies, though it is creeping up.

Acts 9 is a historical account, and is not providing us with a doctrine. It is descriptive, not prescriptive. It is not saying that this is a normal everyday experience for the average Christian.

Actually, it validates the experiences many believers have witnessed. You not putting stock in reports does not prove the reports are baseless.

And I find it interesting that while you attempt to correct me about the OP only talking about dreams, that you cite a vision from Acts 9 to respond to me.

It is because you have persistently pressed on in this rabbit trail.

Be that as you will, you have been given abundant information in which to bring a more balanced approach to that which you hold.

Would you like to return to the OP and share how the Holy Spirit was working in a certain dream or even a nightmare?