Drinking

[John of Japan]

Let me put it this way. In the new version of the Japanese NT I am currently proofreading should we change John 2:10 from what we currently have it as (十分飲んだ, have drunk plenty) to 酔っぱらっている (are drunk)? You see, this matters when translating the Bible.

 

[Calminian]

Let me put it this way. In the new version of the Japanese NT I am currently proofreading should we change John 2:10 from what we currently have it as (十分飲んだ, have drunk plenty) to 酔っぱらっている (are drunk)? You see, this matters when translating the Bible.

I don't think you should do any translating. You interpret using feelings and you'd like let them creep into your translating.

 

[John of Japan]

Your argument is very common. I don't like what the straightforward Text says, so I'm not going to believe it. Or, I wouldn't do that if I were Jesus, so I'm going to find an alternative interpretation.

I try to keep myself and my own feelings out of the equation. Jesus made alcoholic wine. Period. You are making the claim that every single guest at the wedding was drunk. I don't see that in the text anywhere. You can argue some were drunk, but that doesn't mean Jesus was telling them to get more drunk.

I think you're making unfair attacks on Jesus. He's not responsible for other people's over indulgence.

Well, you certainly did put your own feelings into the equation with your accusation that I have another Jesus.

I don't think you understand my argument. I didn't make the claim that everyone there was drunk. My argument is strictly from the Greek, not my emotions or my doctrine. Methuo means "drunk" everywhere else in the NT. Please tell me why it doesn't mean "drunk" here. Or if you haven't been trained in Greek or linguistics, just say so and I'll let it go.

 

[John of Japan]

I don't think you should do any translating. You interpret using feelings and you'd like let them creep into your translating.

It's too late. I've already translated the entire NT into Japanese from the Greek with my Japanese and missionary team.

So again, deal with the Greek if you can. Tell me how to translate methuo.

 

[Calminian]

It's too late. I've already translated the entire NT into Japanese from the Greek with my Japanese and missionary team.

So again, deal with the Greek if you can. Tell me how to translate methuo.

All cults or false movements start with the premise, you can't trust your english bible. So typical.

 

[Calminian]

Well, you certainly did put your own feelings into the equation with your accusation that I have another Jesus.

I never said you had another Jesus. I simply said, if you don't like what Scripture says about him, you have no choice but to make up your own.

I don't think you understand my argument. I didn't make the claim that everyone there was drunk. ...

You claimed Jesus was making wine for drunk people. If everyone wasn't drunk, your accusation against Jesus falls apart.

 

[John of Japan]

Folks, why do people get so emotional when discussing this subject?

All cults or false movements start with the premise, you can't trust your english bible. So typical.

You misunderstand. The KJV is perfectly fine here. It gives an ambiguous rendering that can be interpreted as "drunk" or "have drunk." I'm not objecting to the English Bible.

So, just admit you can't answer my question and move on. Admit you don't know the Greek and are kerflummuxed. You can't debate the subject with me, so...you decide to flee the subject by saying that actually looking at the original languages of the Bible produces cults.

Does anyone besides me see how ridiculous that charge is?

 

[John of Japan]

I never said you had another Jesus. I simply said, if you don't like what Scripture says about him, you have no choice but to make up your own.

Yeah, whatever. You dodged the issue.

You claimed Jesus was making wine for drunk people. If everyone wasn't drunk, your accusation against Jesus falls apart.

Nope. You still missed my argument completely. Nice trying to make you understand. My wife is probably here to pick me up, and we don't have Internet at home.

 

[Calminian]

Folks, why do people get so emotional and nasty when

You misunderstand. The KJV is perfectly fine here. It gives an ambiguous rendering that can be interpreted as "drunk" or "have drunk." I'm not objecting to the English Bible.

So, just admit you can't answer my question and move on.

Just admit you're saying that Jesus was in sin if he created alcohol for a crowd that had some drunk people in it. It's a typical liberal accusation.

 

[Calminian]

Yeah, whatever. You dodged the issue.

Nope. You still missed my argument completely. Nice trying to make you understand. My wife is probably here to pick me up, and we don't have Internet at home.

Then she saved you, cuz you were flailing badly with this argument.

 

[John of Japan]

Just admit you're saying that Jesus was in sin if he created alcohol for a crowd that had some drunk people in it. It's a typical liberal accusation.

Nope, I'd be lying if I admitted what you say here.

Just admit you can't handle or perhaps even understand the point I am making.

 

[Calminian]

Nope, I'd be lying if I admitted what you say here.

Just admit you can't handle or perhaps even understand the point I am making.

What I did was take your argument to its logical conclusion. Your issue is not with language, but with logic. You can learn languages, but logic might never be your strong suit.

 

[Yeshua1]

Folks, why do people get so emotional when discussing this subject?

You misunderstand. The KJV is perfectly fine here. It gives an ambiguous rendering that can be interpreted as "drunk" or "have drunk." I'm not objecting to the English Bible.

So, just admit you can't answer my question and move on. Admit you don't know the Greek and are kerflummuxed. You can't debate the subject with me, so...you decide to flee the subject by saying that actually looking at the original languages of the Bible produces cults.

Does anyone besides me see how ridiculous that charge is?

Looks like we have a new Van showing up on this discussion!
Wants to discuss the finer points of Greek Grammar, and then it goes nowhere fast!

 

[HankD]

Folks, why do people get so emotional when discussing this subject?

You misunderstand. The KJV is perfectly fine here. It gives an ambiguous rendering that can be interpreted as "drunk" or "have drunk." I'm not objecting to the English Bible.

So, just admit you can't answer my question and move on. Admit you don't know the Greek and are kerflummuxed. You can't debate the subject with me, so...you decide to flee the subject by saying that actually looking at the original languages of the Bible produces cults.

Does anyone besides me see how ridiculous that charge is?

it has no merit.
Also how impossible is it to NOT put one's feelings to some degree into the work of translating the NT if one is a believer.

 

[Rob_BW]

Out of 5000 people fed at Bethsaida, should we suppose that there were no gluttons, not a single person who ate to excess? Judging by the leftovers, the opportunity was there.

 

[Calminian]

Out of 5000 people fed at Bethsaida, should we suppose that there were no gluttons, not a single person who ate to excess? Judging by the leftovers, the opportunity was there.

Yes, fantastic point. So then, we have to assume Jesus wan't giving them real food. It was some sort of substitute non calorie food. Because Jesus would never encourage gluttony.

 

[James Flagg]

I agree with JOJ in that the writer of this article doesn't seem to be scientifically literate. I wish I knew what study he's actually trying to describe and which enzyme he's talking about.

It's hard to wade through some of the media's reports on research, especially when it comes to medicine. This guy doesn't know an enzyme from an organism, so it's best to move on to a more competent source.

 

[Yeshua1]

Yes, fantastic point. So then, we have to assume Jesus wan't giving them real food. It was some sort of substitute non calorie food. Because Jesus would never encourage gluttony.

was his version of Angel food cake.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I would not have backed down. I would have got up and went over to that jerk and told that jerk to shut up and that he or she was insane for being against drinking one alcoholic beverage a week.

Good...I would have gone out, got a 6 pack and had a beer in front of him and offered everyone a beer

 

[InTheLight]

Good...I would have gone out, got a 6 pack and had a beer in front of him and offered everyone a beer

There is a fine line between being a stumbling block to someone and that someone being legalistic. Pretty sure you would be crossing that line with this action.

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