Drinking

[steaver]

That is a false statement, and slanderous too.

Apostle Paul said to drink wine for their stomachs, does that sound like he told them to get drunk?

Jesus drank wine, and he did not get drunk. To say or imply that drinking is wrong and a sin, that is to say Jesus did wrong and sinned. So consider more carefully, what you say.

Actually, the fact that Paul had to tell the first Christians to drink a "little" wine for medicinal purposes proves that the first Christians understood they were to abstain from drinking it. And there is no concrete evidence that the wine Jesus drank was potent enough to get anyone drunk. There are many levels of fermentation of wine. It wasn't all 90 proof!

 

[steaver]

Most civilized countries don't have a problem with drunk drivers. In the US drunk driving is our national sport.

I'm glad The Wife and I went to college when the drinking age was 18. We spent many a cold night in a warm tav nursing a $1 pitcher of beer. Even got some homework done. Ah, the good old days when libraries had ash trays.

What legal activity occupies young people these days? Say from 8 PM to bar closing?

No one ever said sin wasn't enjoyable for a season. Some folks enjoy an affair or a little dip into pornography too.

Most civilized countries don't have a problem with drunk drivers.

Now there's an oxymoron!

 

[Moriah]

Actually, the fact that Paul had to tell the first Christians to drink a "little" wine for medicinal purposes proves that the first Christians understood they were to abstain from drinking it.

You are wrong what you say here. You slandered when you say all drink to get drunk. Notice you did not deal with that part of my comment.
As for Paul, he would not tell them to do something, even a little bit if it was sin! Your reasoning that what Paul said proves that the first Christians understood they were to abstain from drinking is a false assumption, for there were Christians who thought it was a sin to eat meat, and you should know that is not true.

And there is no concrete evidence that the wine Jesus drank was potent enough to get anyone drunk.

What you say does not make sense, and it even contradicts the other stuff you said about drinking.

There are many levels of fermentation of wine. It wasn't all 90 proof!

Who said anything about wine being 90 proof? No one did.

 

[steaver]

You are wrong what you say here. You slandered when you say all drink to get drunk. Notice you did not deal with that part of my comment.
.

Yes, you got me there on that one brother. Good for you! Some did drink a little for stomach problems.

As for Paul, he would not tell them to do something, even a little bit if it was sin!

God judges the thoughts and intentions of the heart. Drugs used for medicinal purposes is not sin. Drugs used for recreational purposes IS.

Your reasoning that what Paul said proves that the first Christians understood they were to abstain from drinking is a false assumption, for there were Christians who thought it was a sin to eat meat, and you should know that is not true.

And Paul had to explain to them that it was not a sin to eat the meat. It is not a false assumption, why do you think Paul had to tell them to stop abstaining from wine for medicinal purposes?? They apparently wern't drinking any for some reason. What do you think that reason was?

 

[Moriah]

Yes, you got me there on that one brother. Good for you! Some did drink a little for stomach problems.

There are people who drink nowadays and it is not to get drunk. You said everyone drinks to get drunk. You need to admit being more wrong.
As for you insinuating that those in the Bible only drank a little for stomach problems, are you trying to claim that Jesus drank for stomach problems?

And Paul had to explain to them that it was not a sin to eat the meat. It is not a false assumption,

And Paul had to explain to them that they could drink wine.

why do you think Paul had to tell them to stop abstaining from wine for medicinal purposes??
They apparently wern't drinking any for some reason. What do you think that reason was?

Where do you think they got the idea that they could not eat meat?

 

[Steadfast Fred]

Actually, the fact that Paul had to tell the first Christians to drink a "little" wine for medicinal purposes proves that the first Christians understood they were to abstain from drinking it. And there is no concrete evidence that the wine Jesus drank was potent enough to get anyone drunk. There are many levels of fermentation of wine. It wasn't all 90 proof!

Paul's instructions to Timothy was not to everyone, it was to one person...Timothy.

So many take Paul's instruction to Timothy to mean it was OK for everyone to to drink wine.

They are wrong.

As to Moriah's claim that Jesus drank wine, I find no proof that the wine Jesus drank was alcoholic at all.

edited to add:
1 Timothy 1:1-2 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Saviour, and Lord Jesus Christ, which is our hope; Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

Notice the epistle was not to everyone (not to the Church); it was only to Timothy.

 

[steaver]

There are people who drink nowadays and it is not to get drunk. You said everyone drinks to get drunk. You need to admit being more wrong.
As for you insinuating that those in the Bible only drank a little for stomach problems, are you trying to claim that Jesus drank for stomach problems?

And Paul had to explain to them that they could drink wine.

Where do you think they got the idea that they could not eat meat?

Give me an example of someone who does not drink nowadays for the buzz.

Already answered concerning Jesus drinking wine.

Paul explained that they could drink wine FOR THEIR STOMACH PROBLEMS. You knda left that part off.

They got the idea of not eating meat offered to idols from the OT.

 

[Moriah]

As to Moriah's claim that Jesus drank wine, I find no proof that the wine Jesus drank was alcoholic at all.

That is just an unfounded statement. It is misleading and has no basis in the truth.

 

[Moriah]

Give me an example of someone who does not drink nowadays for the buzz.

What you say does not even make sense. Getting drunk is losing control, not everyone drinks and loses control. You are another one on the board who thinks they can speak for every human in the world that ever lived. Who do you think you people are?

Already answered concerning Jesus drinking wine.

Jesus drank wine, and Jesus made wine to drink for other people. Wine was even served at the Lord’s Supper when the Christians got together, and it was real wine that was capable of getting others drunk, for some got drunk on it, see 1 Corinthians 11:21.

Paul explained that they could drink wine FOR THEIR STOMACH PROBLEMS. You knda left that part off.

Stop implying I do not deal with the scriptures.

They got the idea of not eating meat offered to idols from the OT.

Is that you adding your own person twist to the scriptures as you have before? Where does the Bible say that got the idea from the Old Testament?

 

[Steadfast Fred]

That is just an unfounded statement. It is misleading and has no basis in the truth.

So prove to us that the wine Jesus drank was alcoholic, Moriah. Where is your Scripture that states it was alcoholic?

 

[Tom Butler]

I had a young friend who was the king of malaprops.

He once said "I don't drink regularly, but I do take a little wine for municipal purposes."

 

[Moriah]

So prove to us that the wine Jesus drank was alcoholic, Moriah. Where is your Scripture that states it was alcoholic?

Wine is an alcoholic drink.

You give the scripture that says Jesus drank grape juice and not wine. You cannot find such a scripture, because the scriptures say WINE.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

Jesus drank wine, and Jesus made wine to drink for other people. Wine was even served at the Lord’s Supper when the Christians got together, and it was real wine that was capable of getting others drunk, for some got drunk on it, see 1 Corinthians 11:21.

Is that you adding your own person twist to the scriptures as you have before?

Jesus did not serve the wine in 1 Corinthians 11:21. He had been crucified years before.

Also, Paul scolded the Corinthians and told them what they were doing was not the Lord's Supper.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

Wine is an alcoholic drink.

You give the scripture that says Jesus drank grape juice and not wine. You cannot find such a scripture, because the scriptures say WINE.

Scripture revelas that the word wine is a generic word for both fermented and non fermented wines.

Why would Jesus give permission for people to drink that which has the ability to deceive them?

 

[Moriah]

Is that you adding your own person twist to the scriptures as you have before?

Jesus did not serve the wine in 1 Corinthians 11:21. He had been crucified years before.

Also, Paul scolded the Corinthians and told them what they were doing was not the Lord's Supper.

You ignore the truth completely and twist it; therefore, I will not continue speaking to you about this. You cannot be reasoned with about this, just read here what you wrote.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

1 Corinthians 11:20-22 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper. For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken. What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not.

Paul reveals

1. That what they were doing was not the Lord's Supper.
2. That the Corinthians were not getting drunk on the beverage they served.

Notice the contrast... one is hungry, another is drunken. He did not tell them not to get drunk, but rather told them to go home and drink. This tells me that Paul was addressing greed, not drunkenness. While some were drinking too much, others had to do without because of the greedy ones.

1 Corinthians 11 says nothing of what was served as being wine. Matter of fact, Paul doesn't even use the word "wine" in 1 Corinthians at all. So it is obvious who is doing the 'twisting'.

 

[Moriah]

1 Corinthians 11:20-22 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper. For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken. What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not.

Paul reveals

1. That what they were doing was not the Lord's Supper.

What they were doing was not the Lord’s Supper because they ate without caring about the poor and they got drunk!

2. That the Corinthians were not getting drunk on the beverage they served.

They WERE getting drunk on the beverage they served.

Notice the contrast... one is hungry, another is drunken. He did not tell them not to get drunk, but rather told them to go home and drink.

And you are helping to prove what I say is the truth.

This tells me that Paul was addressing greed, not drunkenness. While some were drinking too much, others had to do without because of the greedy ones.

1 Corinthians 11 says nothing of what was served as being wine. Matter of fact, Paul doesn't even use the word "wine" in 1 Corinthians at all.

As I said before, you cannot be reasoned with. Just read how you say Paul does not even use the word wine.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

I quoted the Scripture. The word "wine" isn't there.

A contrast between those without and those filled is though.

It is not I who cannot be reasoned with. I see the Scripture and believe it.

Strong's Greek Dictionary
3184. methuo
Search for G3184 in KJVSL
mequw methuo meth-oo'-o
from another form of 3178; to drink to intoxication, i.e. get drunk:--drink well, make (be) drunk(-en).

See Greek 3178

While the primary definition for methuo is to drink to intoxication, it also has other definitions. One of them being, "drink well." It is clear that Paul had "drink well" in mind here, else he would have told the greedy ones to go home and drink but not to a state of drunkenness, knowing that drunkenness is a sin.

 

[annsni]

Give me an example of someone who does not drink nowadays for the buzz.

That was me when I drank. I would only have one drink because as soon as I had my second, I'd start to feel it and I hated that feeling. But I love the taste of the things I used to drink and STILL crave a good margharita!! But I'll have my unsweetened tea instead. But drink for the buzz? Ewwww!!!!

 

[annsni]

If Jesus didn't drink alcoholic beverages, He then the following would not be true:

* He would be sinless - Passover was a time where wine was consumed. Juice would have allowed leaven to come in and thus would have been a sin. Instead, the fermenting process leaves the wine with dead yeast that is then strained off.

* The Pharisees would not have been able to accuse Him of being a drunkard. You can't exactly be a drunkard if you don't drink. Jesus didn't say "I don't drink alcohol" when accused, did He?