Drinking

[Moriah]

Read these scriptures. We are told not to indulge in “much wine.” It is not a sin to drink some alcohol.

1 Timothy 3:8 Deacons, likewise, are to be men worthy of respect, sincere, not indulging in much wine, and not pursuing dishonest gain.

Titus 2:3 Likewise, teach the older women to be reverent in the way they live, not to be slanderers or addicted to much wine, but to teach what is good.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Steadfast Fred: I find no proof that the wine Jesus drank was alcoholic at all.

HP: I would agree. Just because He was FALSELY accused of being a winebibber is NO sign that He ever let a single drop of fermented wine touch His lips. And there again, He may have.

Scripture is clear to me.

Pro 23:31 Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright.

Pro 20:1 Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.

Let everyone be assured in their own mind. Happy is the man that condemneth not himself in the things he alloweth.

Someone may need to help me out on the verse in Scripture that says something close to my last comment. I am still looking for the actual passage.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Found it.

Rom 14:22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.

 

[Moriah]

HP: I would agree. Just because He was FALSELY accused of being a winebibber is NO sign that He ever let a single drop of fermented wine touch His lips. And there again, He may have.

Scripture is clear to me.

Pro 23:31 Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright.

Pro 20:1 Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.

Jesus drank wine. The Bible says so. We cannot add or subtract what is written and say that it was not real wine.

Those two scriptures are about not being deceived by alcohol.

 

[mont974x4]

The wine of the day was alcoholic. Those who claim otherwise ignore some important things:
1. If it was non-alcoholic the Scriptures against drunkenness would be useless and meaningless
2. God commanded the bread have no leaven (yeast) for Passover. He made no such command related to the wine
3. Historical evidence shows ancient peoples drank alcoholic beverages (wine and beer)
4. Alcohol is a product of nature

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

It is my understanding that the word wine in Scripture is used also for pure grape juice. Let everyone be assured in their own minds.:thumbs:

 

[mont974x4]

Gen 9:21 He drank of the wine and became drunk, and uncovered himself inside his tent.

The word wine is, found in 132 verses, is defined in the Complete Word Study Dictionary as:

H3196

ַיִין
yayin: A masculine noun referring to wine. It indicates the juice of the grapevine and its fruits, a common drink for refreshment in the Old Testament (Gen_14:18; Gen_27:25; Jdg_19:19). It, along with grain and oil, were three great blessings to Israel in the Promised Land. It was used as a tonic (Pro_31:6); a valuable commercial item (Neh_13:15; Eze_27:18). Used properly, it made people's hearts glad (2Sa_13:28; Zec_9:15) and was used figuratively to describe the fertility of the land of Israel (Isa_40:12). In moderation, it was used in the worship of the Lord (Deu_14:26). It was forbidden to Nazarites (Num_6:3). Wise persons, especially kings, had no need of it for it might distort their powers of judgment (Pro_31:4). It could intoxicate a person (Gen_9:21, Gen_9:24; 1Sa_1:14; Pro_21:17). The Rechabites abstained from it (Jer_35:2, Jer_35:5). God did not approve of heavy drinkers (Pro_23:20). Priests were not to use it while serving at the sanctuary (Lev_10:9), but it was employed as a drink offering (Exo_29:40; Lev_23:13; Num_15:5, Num_15:7, Num_15:10). In the Old Testament, different qualities of wine are noted: good wine (Son_7:9 [10]); royal wine (Est_1:7); spiced wine (Son_8:2). Wine is used in the figurative language of metaphors: wisdom's drink (Pro_9:2, Pro_9:5); the wine of the Lord's wrath (Jer_25:15); the wine that creates confusion, wandering (Psa_60:3 [5]). Babylon is likened to a cup of wine, causing the nations to go mad (Jer_51:7). True love is said to surpass the intoxication of wine (Son_1:2; Son_4:10).



Mat 9:17 "Nor do people put new wine into old wineskins; otherwise the wineskins burst, and the wine pours out and the wineskins are ruined; but they put new wine into fresh wineskins, and both are preserved."

wine, found in 26 verses, here is:

G3631

οἶνος
oínos; gen. oínou, masc. noun. Wine derived from grapes. The mention of the bursting of the wine skins in Mat_9:17; Mar_2:22; Luk_5:37-38 implies fermentation. See Luk_1:15; Luk_7:33; Luk_10:34; Rom_14:21; Eph_5:18 [cf. Joh_2:3, Joh_2:9-10; Joh_4:46]; 1Ti_3:8; 1Ti_5:23; Tit_2:3; Rev_6:6; Rev_18:13; Sept.: Gen_9:21, Gen_9:24; Gen_14:18; Gen_27:28; Jdg_9:13. From the intoxicating effects of wine and the idolatrous use of it among the heathen, wine signifies communion in the intoxicating idolatries of the mystic Babylon (Rev_14:8 [cf. Jer_51:7]). It denotes metaphorically the dreadful judgments of God upon sinners (Rev_14:10; Rev_16:19; Rev_19:15 [cf. Isa_51:17; Jer_25:15; Eze_23:31]). The drinking of wine, though not forbidden by Scripture (as is drunkenness [Eph_5:18]), is to be avoided in the presence of weaker brothers who might be influenced to partake against their consciences (Rom_14:21). In 1Ti_5:23 oínos is recommended for medicinal purposes.
Deriv.: oinopótēs (G3630), a drinker of wine; pároinos (G3943), a heavy drinker.
Syn.: gleúkos (G1098), sweet new wine; síkera (G4608), strong drink.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Mont, my point was that the word wine can be used for EITHER feremented or unfermented. Certainly there are passages that use the word wine to depict fermented wine. I am not arguing with that. I would contend with those that try to indicate that 'everywhere' it is used it is fermented. Make sense?

 

[mont974x4]

Can you show me a Scripture that uses it for juice?

 

[mont974x4]

I found this verse discussing the vow of a Nazirite. This is the only place this Hebrew word is used in the Bible

Num 6:3 he shall abstain from wine and strong drink; he shall drink no vinegar, whether made from wine or strong drink, nor shall he drink any grape juice nor eat fresh or dried grapes.

juice is:
H4952

ִמְשָׁרה
mišrāh: A feminine noun indicating juice. It refers to a flowing liquid and is used of the juice of grapes (Num_6:3). A Nazarite could not drink this liquid.

Stong's defines it this way:
H4952
משׁרה
mishrâh
mish-raw'
From H8281 in the sense of loosening; maceration, that is, steeped juice: - liquor.


The point here is that the man taking such a vow would not in any way consume grapes. The reason? I would suggest it was because of the natural fermentation process. He was to avoid alcohol, and even the suggestion of it. That is why he was to avoid any beverage that would come from grapes. Juice turns to wine. Bad wine turns to vinegar. Good wine turns to better wine, or "strong drink".


The only other place I found the word juice was in Song of Solomon 8:2. Given the context of the passage I will avoid elaborating on what the real meaning is there on BB.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

To my friend EWF, I tried a WV Micro Brew called Alpha Blond Ale and it was suprisingly descent.

(Nothing in the bible says "Do not gaze at beer when it is amber, when the foam is thick, when it goes down smoothly")

 

[Steadfast Fred]

One of the best sermons I have heard on alcohol was delivered by Marc Monte, pastor of Faith Baptist Church of Indiana.

That message can be heard on SermonAudio.com

 

[steaver]

That was me when I drank. I would only have one drink because as soon as I had my second, I'd start to feel it and I hated that feeling. But I love the taste of the things I used to drink and STILL crave a good margharita!! But I'll have my unsweetened tea instead. But drink for the buzz? Ewwww!!!!

There are literally hundreds of great tasting drinks which contain no alcohol, or at the least not enough to ever cause a drunk, that one would never need to drink one with alcohol. I bet you could even find one that taste just like a margharita but without the alcohol. There is absolutely no reason for any CHristian to have to seek out an alcoholic beverage, unless of course the motive is not just "I like the taste".

Tell me Ann, do you seriously teach your youth class (I hope it is a topic of discipleship with them) it is alright to drink alcohol? If you do, I pray it does not come back to haunt you one day.

 

[mont974x4]

We should be teaching people, regardless of age, the truth of God's Word on every issue. That includes alcohol. We cannot control how people will use the information. We must be faithful to God and His Word. We must also entrust the people we love to His care, for He knows what they need better than we do, and He loves them even more than we do.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

There are literally hundreds of great tasting drinks which contain no alcohol, or at the least not enough to ever cause a drunk, that one would never need to drink one with alcohol. I bet you could even find one that taste just like a margharita but without the alcohol. There is absolutely no reason for any CHristian to have to seek out an alcoholic beverage, unless of course the motive is not just "I like the taste".

Tell me Ann, do you seriously teach your youth class (I hope it is a topic of discipleship with them) it is alright to drink alcohol? If you do, I pray it does not come back to haunt you one day.

I have Nathan Bailey's Dictionary of 1726.

In it, the definition of wine is "the liquor of grapes". When you look up the word "liquor," you find that the word applied to any liquid, including juice... and even water was called liquor.

The Websters 1828 Dictionary states that liquor could be water, milk, blood, juice, but more commonly fermented beverages.

So, when speaking of beverages, the definition changed from every liquid being called liquor to alcohol more commonly called liquor to all liquor is alcohol today. Very telling how subtilty changed the meaning of "wine" and "liquor" to mean only fermented drinks.

 

[annsni]

There are literally hundreds of great tasting drinks which contain no alcohol, or at the least not enough to ever cause a drunk, that one would never need to drink one with alcohol. I bet you could even find one that taste just like a margharita but without the alcohol. There is absolutely no reason for any CHristian to have to seek out an alcoholic beverage, unless of course the motive is not just "I like the taste".

Yeah, I've tried the things to substitute for the alcoholic drinks I used to have and the only thing that is fine is a virgin seabreeze. We drink those a lot - grapefruit and cranberry. But otherwise, you can't substitute the taste of alcoholic drinks in another drink. It just doesn't taste right and I'd rather not bother. Again, my main drink now is unsweetened iced tea or if we are out with friends where there is a bar and no tea, I'll have a seltzer with a twist of lime.

Tell me Ann, do you seriously teach your youth class (I hope it is a topic of discipleship with them) it is alright to drink alcohol? If you do, I pray it does not come back to haunt you one day.

We teach what the Bible teaches. First off, obey the laws of the land. In NY, that means you don't drink until you are 21. Then you must not get drunk. Finally, we speak to them about their motive to drink, if they think that it might be an issue for those around them (especially when they are young and right around the drinking age) and teach them about alcohol abuse. But we do teach them that as long as they stay within those guidelines, it IS OK biblically to consume alcohol. My oldest daughter is 22 years old and she's chosen to not drink although we haven't given her the "No, you may not drink" talk. Instead with the guidelines above, she's taken it into her own beliefs that it's not right for her to consume alcoholic beverages at this time in her life.

 

[steaver]

We teach what the Bible teaches. First off, obey the laws of the land. In NY, that means you don't drink until you are 21. Then you must not get drunk. Finally, we speak to them about their motive to drink, if they think that it might be an issue for those around them (especially when they are young and right around the drinking age) and teach them about alcohol abuse. But we do teach them that as long as they stay within those guidelines, it IS OK biblically to consume alcohol. My oldest daughter is 22 years old and she's chosen to not drink although we haven't given her the "No, you may not drink" talk. Instead with the guidelines above, she's taken it into her own beliefs that it's not right for her to consume alcoholic beverages at this time in her life.

I teach kids also, and I teach them what the bible teaches, of course this is different than what you teach. I teach them we are God's kings and priest and we are to lead with absolute clear minds. We should not play around with the devils weapons of destruction. Kids are not stupid, they see full well the results of alcohol in this world.

James tells us, "My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation". The Spirit Himself bears me witness that I should teach total abstainence. We will see at our JSoC. Maybe you will be fine, I just hope nothing comes back to haunt you one day if one of your students ends up trying alcohol because you told them it was ok and gets hooked. It is a drug you know?

 

[webdog]

You are exactly right. People drink alcoholic beverages for the drunk. We have hundreds of non-alcoholic wines and beers nowadays which taste fantastic. Alcohol taste aweful, just try it striaght and see for yourself. Take the alcohol out and the drink will always taste better.

mere opinion.

Now please, dont anyone give me the old worn out arguments trying to defend your drunk. With todays products, those old arguments are destroyed.

what about the old arguments given to us from the Bible that refute you opinion?

BTW, science has proven that .08 alcohol blood level is drunk. So if you are drinking these alcoholic beverages you better be splitting a 12oz can with someone else, lol.

the same science that states everything ccame from nothing and an unborn child is not human? Gotcha...

 

[webdog]

So prove to us that the wine Jesus drank was alcoholic, Moriah. Where is your Scripture that states it was alcoholic?

Simple. Jesus made the "best" wine. Scripture tells us what the "best" wine is in Isaiah 25:6...well aged on the lees (pure and alcoholic containing no yeast).

 

[Steadfast Fred]

"well aged" does not necessarily mean alcoholic.

Isaiah 25:6 does not say the wine is "well aged". It says "well refined."

Isaiah 25:6 And in this mountain shall the LORD of hosts make unto all people a feast of fat things, a feast of wines on the lees, of fat things full of marrow, of wines on the lees well refined.

The word 'zaqaq' is translated as strained, purified, refined. It is never translated as aged.