Dungeons and Dragons

[JonC]

Unfortunately, when you look for the Devil in the details he will often find you. I can’t think of a better way to keep the Church from being faithful towards its commission than having its members fighting windmills. We do need to practice discernment, not only in our doctrines but also in our battles. In other words, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

 

[evangelist6589]

Abbott and Costello Meets the Mummy.



What do you mean when you say the movie was "satanic"?

Hah!!! I have There Stooges episodes and what they would call scary is not even scary nor Satanic. There are some episodes with Shemp Howard in which they meet ghosts, but its just plain silly.

 

[evangelist6589]

This might comes as a shock to you, as I'm someone who has been involved in ministry for 12 years, but I've played it, too. I was even Dungeon Master for our group, as I'm one of the better storytellers in my group of friends. There's no "satanic" connotation to our games. The characters we invented were just for fun. The dungeons and puzzles they had to overcome were just for fun.

We didn't meet in secret and hold a black mass before busting out the satan shrines. We sat around a table, mostly relaxed. We might have a map or a something that I had drawn up to further the game. Whenever the group would try to go somewhere that I, as DM, didn't want them to go, I could change the story to force them back onto a course I had chosen. Basically, D&D is the JRR Tolkien version of "choose your own adventure."

As someone else said, if you start labeling everything as "satanic," you being to tread shaky ground. You could call the writings of C.S. Lewis "satanic," even though he arguably held to a Christian point of view. Tolkien's "Lord of the Rings" is pure fantasy, but it carries Christian allusions. I wouldn't label those things as "satanic" just because they're not overt glorifications of Christ.



Guess what, evangelist? People have committed suicide after going to church. People have killed other people at church. Does that make church "satanic?"



I believe Satan can invade anything, if given the opportunity. Invading a church is a trophy for him. I could point to several "mainstream" mega-churches and give you good examples of why I think Satan has invaded them. We can tackle fictional elements of the world once we clean out the spiritual household.

Satan will invade a person's life if they allow it. It requires a level of will power on the part of the person to not allow the cracks to form in which Satan can break through, and it requires a reliance on the Lord to keep them safe.

What type of church? I bet it was not a Separatist church because we hold to separation and D&D is just plain evil.

Some verses on separation. Wait you probably already have heard of them.

 

[evangelist6589]

Unfortunately, when you look for the Devil in the details he will often find you. I can’t think of a better way to keep the Church from being faithful towards its commission than having its members fighting windmills. We do need to practice discernment, not only in our doctrines but also in our battles. In other words, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

No way! This is why churches both Arminian and Calvinist hold to the doctrine of separation. This is why there are schools that hold to separation. BJU was mostly arminian, but it did have a handful of Calvinist separatists.

II Corinthians 6:17a
Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate

1 John 2:15-17
Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

Ephesians 5:11 (NKJV)
And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them.

Romans 12:2 (NIV)
Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is — his good, pleasing and perfect will.

For more details on separation get one of these books.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/1579240747/?tag=baptis04-20

http://www.amazon.com/dp/1581344910/?tag=baptis04-20

So in other words I would not join fellowship nor do evangelism with people that play D&D.

 

[JonC]

No way! This is why churches both Arminian and Calvinist hold to the doctrine of separation.

I think that you are taking the "doctrine of separation" to unwarranted ends. I would be more concerned about desensitization and its effect on our ability to discern than I would about satanic influences of D&D and Ghost Busters. People can, and have, been drawn into the occult through seemingly harmless endeavors. But it was not because they did not go looking for it. Just like those who see these games and movies as a venue for self-righteous defenses others can see them as a venue to foster their interest in ungodliness. Both find things that may not be present in the media itself…it is internal to the observer, not the object being observed.

I remember on past boards here some took exception to werewolves and vampires because they were “satanic.” They never once considered that these creatures are fictional while Satan is real. Instead they blindly and proudly attack that dragon, never realizing it is a windmill. It leads to legalism and really fosters the ideologies they are trying to combat.

I am sure that D&D is not your primary focus on determining who to exile from Christian love (if anything for the mere reason that it is no longer popular). So, what actions or hobbies do you consider sever enough for you to disassociate with another child of God? The ones that I run across most often are drinking and tobacco use. But from your thread, and to avoid hypocrisy, I take it you are more along the lines of "The Lord of the Rings," "Harry Potter," "The Chronicles of Narnia," "Twilight," etc.?

 

[Jordan Kurecki]

It's always mind blowing to me to see how people are willing to watch movies with aspects of the occult and then come up with excuses and arguments about why there is nothing wrong with this.

if you think setting movies in front of you that contain things like magic, demon possesion, etc.. are not grieving the spirit of God then you need to evaluate your relationship with God.

He sees what you see and goes where you go, and he is offended and grieved by many of the things people use for entertainment.

I wonder how many young children have been lead astray off into the occult world because a bunch of naive parents thought it ok to watch entertainment with aspects of the occult.

I am so sick of all these Neo-Evangelical/Liberal Christians who oppose and shame anyone who has the decency to separate from worldliness.

Some of you people need to own up to reality and stop trying to make excuses for carnal entertainment.

 

[PreachTony]

No way! This is why churches both Arminian and Calvinist hold to the doctrine of separation. This is why there are schools that hold to separation. BJU was mostly arminian, but it did have a handful of Calvinist separatists.

II Corinthians 6:17a
Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate

1 John 2:15-17
Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

Ephesians 5:11 (NKJV)
And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them.

Romans 12:2 (NIV)
Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is — his good, pleasing and perfect will.

For more details on separation get one of these books.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/1579240747/?tag=baptis04-20

http://www.amazon.com/dp/1581344910/?tag=baptis04-20

So in other words I would not join fellowship nor do evangelism with people that play D&D.

So you go home and you never open a newspaper, or watch TV, or listen to the radio? You fully insulate yourself from the world? I agree that we should be separate from the world, but I guarantee that our ideas of separation are different. I've known lots of D&D players (yeah, I was and still am a nerd :smilewinkgrin and not a single one of them holds to "satanic" beliefs. The vast majority of them regularly attend church.

The thing is, evangelist, you have decided that certain things are "satanic" without actually talking to people who have done those things. Bit of a judgment on your part, there. Do you consider Monopoly to be "satanic," since it deals with money-changing and the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil?

As an exercise in correlation...I had a Pastor once who told me that the Lord convicted him of watching a certain TV show (Monday night wrestling), because it was interfering with his time with the Lord. I was not under the same conviction, even though I often watched the same show. Should I have stopped watching just because he did?

 

[12strings]

You played Dungeons and Dragons??? Oh my gosh thats getting into Satan's territory. Why did you do it? You may have invited devils into your life. In the book Lutzer tells story after story of people whom committed suicide or killed someone else after playing that game.

D&D is just plain evil

Ok, Evan, Here's your chance to make a solid argument. You often say people don't want to listen to reason and truth. Using Scripture, Facts, truth, reason....Demonstrate what aspects of Dungeons and Dragons are sinful?

Demonstrate a scriptural command that I have disobeyed by playing it.

Demonstrate how playing Dungeons & Dragons is MORE evil than reading the Lord of the Rings, which has long been held as a literary masterpiece by Christians, but has most of the same elements as D&D.

Saying D&D is "plain evil" without evidence is like saying Monopoly is plain evil.

And...Anecdotes of people who got too obsessed with the game don't count because one can find anecdotes of people getting obsessed with nearly anything, from soccer, to ping-pong, to candy crush, to internet debating...


***AND IN CASE ANY ARE READING THIS AND AREN'T FAMILIAR WITH DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS...Here's a quick summary:

"Hey, I'll be an elf, you be a wizard, you be a dwarf...Let's draw a map on this paper on our table and pretend to go around fighting bad guys & Monsters & dragons...maybe we'll go down into a dungeon and find some treasure...and while we're doing it, let's eat chicken wings and donuts, and we'll conversations about how your wife's pregnancy is coming along, and how my graduate classes are going...We probably wont' finish the game tonight, so we'll pick up where we left of next time..."

 

[Don]

Demonstrate how playing Dungeons & Dragons is MORE evil than reading the Lord of the Rings, which has long been held as a literary masterpiece by Christians, but has most of the same elements as D&D.

Actually, many of the elements in D&D were influenced *heavily* by The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings. Most of the guys I knew once upon a time that played D&D used those two books as their foundation for the game.

 

[PreachTony]

***AND IN CASE ANY ARE READING THIS AND AREN'T FAMILIAR WITH DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS...Here's a quick summary:

"Hey, I'll be an elf, you be a wizard, you be a dwarf...Let's draw a map on this paper on our table and pretend to go around fighting bad guys & Monsters & dragons...maybe we'll go down into a dungeon and find some treasure...and while we're doing it, let's eat chicken wings and donuts, and we'll conversations about how your wife's pregnancy is coming along, and how my graduate classes are going...We probably wont' finish the game tonight, so we'll pick up where we left of next time..."

This is actually really accurate. We'd often stop for so long during our games, because our conversations would wander, that we'd forget whose turn it was. Mea culpa as the DM, I have to say. And yeah, the games can last a long time.

 

[Don]

So evangelist is being serious, and not joshin' us?

Then I have a serious question: How many people were actually influenced by D&D to commit suicide or murder?

 

[JonC]

So you go home and you never open a newspaper, or watch TV, or listen to the radio? You fully insulate yourself from the world? I agree that we should be separate from the world, but I guarantee that our ideas of separation are different. I've known lots of D&D players (yeah, I was and still am a nerd :smilewinkgrin and not a single one of them holds to "satanic" beliefs. The vast majority of them regularly attend church.

The thing is, evangelist, you have decided that certain things are "satanic" without actually talking to people who have done those things. Bit of a judgment on your part, there. Do you consider Monopoly to be "satanic," since it deals with money-changing and the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil?

As an exercise in correlation...I had a Pastor once who told me that the Lord convicted him of watching a certain TV show (Monday night wrestling), because it was interfering with his time with the Lord. I was not under the same conviction, even though I often watched the same show. Should I have stopped watching just because he did?

I believe that we, as a whole, often watch, listen, and participate in things without exercising proper discernment. But I agree with this post. Well stated. :thumbsup:

 

[InTheLight]

Hah!!! I have There Stooges episodes and what they would call scary is not even scary nor Satanic.

Please define "satanic"? What do you mean? And please don't answer "of the devil".

 

[annsni]

I'd really like to know just how many people became Satan worshippers based on Ghost Busters. My kids and I watched it recently. "That was so dumb!" was the response from my kids as they laughed through much of it! They haven't joined a coven just yet.

 

[evangelist6589]

It's always mind blowing to me to see how people are willing to watch movies with aspects of the occult and then come up with excuses and arguments about why there is nothing wrong with this.

if you think setting movies in front of you that contain things like magic, demon possesion, etc.. are not grieving the spirit of God then you need to evaluate your relationship with God.

He sees what you see and goes where you go, and he is offended and grieved by many of the things people use for entertainment.

I wonder how many young children have been lead astray off into the occult world because a bunch of naive parents thought it ok to watch entertainment with aspects of the occult.

I am so sick of all these Neo-Evangelical/Liberal Christians who oppose and shame anyone who has the decency to separate from worldliness.

Some of you people need to own up to reality and stop trying to make excuses for carnal entertainment.

Amen. You are a biblical separatist as am I since we both have attended separatists schools and heard many sermons and read many books which highlight all the biblical passages on separation.

Yes in the past I have fallen for the flesh and really got hooked on the X-Files. But these days I'd rather watch the Twilight Zone, Star Trek from the 60's and so forth. Actually there is one Halloween type episode which does have a satanist, but she is pictured as a very evil person whom later dies. These days such types are pictured as good people and just like us in films.

Sadly many Christians have been deizentialized (SP) and see no harm in following the flesh. I challenge such posters to meditate on the scripture and all the passages on holiness. Would Jesus buy Ghostbusters?

 

[InTheLight]

Please define "satanic"? What do you mean? And please don't answer "of the devil".

 

[blessedwife318]

2014 and someone is bringing up sensational claims about DD from the early 90s. Talk about needing some discernment. I might take claims like this more seriously if people were at least consistent. As others have pointed out if you going to condemn DD you also should be going after LOTR and the Chronicles of Narnia and pretty much the entire Fantasy Genre. I'll never forget the time I heard someone going off on HP because it had witches in it and then turned around and said you should read the Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe instead.

 

[evangelist6589]

So evangelist is being serious, and not joshin' us?



Then I have a serious question: How many people were actually influenced by D&D to commit suicide or murder?

Many!!! Read the Erwin Lutzer book I mentioned.

 

[blessedwife318]

Amen. You are a biblical separatist as am I since we both have attended separatists schools and heard many sermons and read many books which highlight all the biblical passages on separation.

Yes in the past I have fallen for the flesh and really got hooked on the X-Files. But these days I'd rather watch the Twilight Zone, Star Trek from the 60's and so forth. Actually there is one Halloween type episode which does have a satanist, but she is pictured as a very evil person whom later dies. These days such types are pictured as good people and just like us in films.

Sadly many Christians have been deizentialized (SP) and see no harm in following the flesh. I challenge such posters to meditate on the scripture and all the passages on holiness. Would Jesus buy Ghostbusters?

Would Jesus buy Star Trek where the Captain has a different girl every week, and in a world where there is no Religion because the creator because he was a secular humanist. Also if you notice Star Trek is the communist utopia as there is no money. I have not seen all the Twilight Zones but I can think of one where the wife is very disrespectful of her husband "Time Enough At Last" so I'm sure if someone wanted to they could nit pick Twilight Zone apart as well.

 

[evangelist6589]

Some of you have good questions. In another book Lutzer explains the difference between something like D&D AND The Hobbitt or a CS Lewis book and will answer with it later. Lutzer is an expert in this area and addresses the occult in a number of his books.