Easter in Tyndale's Bible Before KJV

[Hark]

Indeed, I didn't comment on Tyndale's use of Easter or Eoster though it was the starting issue of this OP. I didn't mention it because Tyndale just followed the previous traditions of the translations about Pascha throughout his translation of NT. Tyndale had made the translation advanced quite a lot, but there was a certain limit and mistakes in his work.

Indeed, it was the accepted practice at the time of Tyndale that Passover was translated into Easter and that Easter meant Passover, but KJV distinguished it only in Acts 12:4, because there is a certain reason to question about the sequence of DUB and Passover as Passover comes before DUB in case of Acts 12:4.

Other than these, I think I covered already in reply to Logos on this issue

Thanks

Eliyahu

Although we have no source directly from the KJV translator as to why they had switched it back to Easter in the KJV when the 1599 Geneva Bible had it as Passover.

And there were some skepticism that a prelate or prelates were the ones that had switched it back, but the sources were commenting on KJV translators supposedly without any source from the KJV translators themselves to confirm this It seems believable to me because politics would explain how this rendering got past over 50 translators that were divided into 8 groups, each checking their own work & then passing it to others to check the other group's work as being done after they were all done.

But yet it could be because of Passover is before the DUB in Acts 12:4 even though we have no confirmation directly from the KJV translators that was why they did it.

Thank you for sharing.

 

[Hark]

Your post is good in connecting Herod’s delay of the Execution to Pleasing the Jews, instead of his celebration of Passover or pagan festival.


On the other hand, there are Undeniable Facts:

1) The verses mentioned Days of Unleavened Bread already but it doesn’t say Herod wanted to execute Peter after DUB, but after Paska

2) Passover comes before DUB, but the verse 3 says it was already DUB

3) End of the DUB is not Passover.

4) It was Herod who intended the execution after Paska, not the Jews. Herod intended to delay the execution.

5) Whether or not Herod celebrated Paska, Herod didn’t want to disturb the Festival of Paska

6) Why doesn’t it say : Herod intended the execution after the Days of Unleavened Bread which was mentioned in the previous verse already?

If it is because Paska or Passover can represent the whole period of the Feast, why wasn’t it used in the previous verse? Because DUB was already used.

7) I don’t think Herod was entirely neutral about the festival and I can easily imagine the ruling class of the Middle Eastern Countries celebrated the pagan festival Ishtar because,

There are so many articles, historical remains, monuments about Astarte, Asherah, Ishtar, Ostara, even Artemis in Acts 19:27-28 as the whole world celebrate the Easter, the pagan festival. This is why Jews didn’t have to necessarily celebrate Easter, but we can imagine the mixture of Jewish DUB and pagan Eastar

8) Which word in Greek were the pagan Festivals Ishtar, Astarte translated into ? All those pagan festivals were translated into Paska, I believe. In other words, Paska didn’t mean only Passover, but Pasahu, Pischa, eventually Easter.


What you couldn’t say is about the Jewish customs or the social situations at that time, because Sadducees often celebrated the different calendars of Pentecost, and majority of the Middle Eastern people would have celebrated Easter as Chaldeans celebrated Pischa, Assyrians Pasahu, Lebanese Astarte, even Israelites worshipped Asherah, and the day of the celebration would have been the first Day of Sun, after the Full Moon and after Spring Equinox.


Even today, I notice Jews don’t know the meaning of Pesach.

What about Christians?

They celebrate Easter! Not Passover! Not the Day of Resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ!, but the Day of Resurrection of Tamuz! ( Ezekiel 8:14)

This is why in this year, we have the Easter on April 4, 2021, 8 days after Passover on March 26-27.

Jesus would have been resurrected on March 30, 2021 if He had been crucified on March 27

However, we have Easter on April 4 this year, which has nothing to do with Resurrection of Jesus.

Because the whole world overwhelmingly celebrate Ishtar ( Name of Goddess in Babylon!)

Sadducees calculated Omer only from the next day after the regular Sabbath after Passover, resulting in their Pentecost on Sunday all the time.

What about the Christians today? They believe Pentecost is always Sunday!

Because they count 50 days from the regular Sabbath after Passover.

That’s Sadducee’s calculation.

But the true Pentecost can be any day of the week counted from the next day of the High Sabbath of DUB.

What I am saying here is that the whole world has been full of paganism either at the time of Acts 12:4 or even today.

Pasahu or Ishtar or Easter must have been a huge festival especially in the whole Middle Eastern Region,

and the Easter was quite similar to the End of the DUB ( Days of Unleavened Bread) deceiving even the People of Israel.

Both Easter and Pentecost are all the time Sundays! Celebrating the Holy Day of the Invincible Sun!

The Truth is that Day of Resurrection of our Lord Jesus can be any day of the week after Passover, and Pentecost can be any day of the week counted from the High Sabbath of the DUB.


KJV translators could have raised the questions about this issue because of the contradictions mentioned above, and left Paska as Easter distinguished from other Paska’ translated into Passovers.


I don’t trust any human exegesis over the Bible. John Lightfoot may be a famous scholar, but I remember he interpreted Ignatius’ Letter to Magnesians in the wrong way about the Sabbath. He may be based on Anglican theology or Catholicism.
I often noticed wrong translations of the bibles by many famous Christians, in terms of Clergy System, Catholicism, Mosaic Law, Revelation and Eschatology, etc.

So, your introduction of many famous people means nothing for me, though I rely on the dictionaries and lexicons.

Eliyahu

Luke 22:1Now the feast of unleavened bread drew nigh, which is called the Passover. KJV

This is why many incorporate the 7 days of the unleavened bread with the first day of the Passover as you stated that there are 8 days of unleavened bread for why Luke refer to the first day of Passover as also the first day of unleavened bread.

One can surmised that is why they called the 7 days of unleavened bread also as Passover even though only on the Passover day is the lamb to be sacrifice, cooked, and eaten on that day with the unleavened bread whereas the 7 days of the unleavened bread, the lamb offering is not to be eaten but just the unleavened bread.

One can assume clarification was needed for understanding Acts 12:4 as not meaning the actual Passover day itself for why Easter is used once again in the KJV when the 1599 Genevan Bible had it as Passover, but we will never know for sure other than it is not wrong to use Easter in Acts 12:4 just because today's society dropped how they used Easter back in the KJV Bible and more importantly, back in Tyndale's English Bible & Martin Luther's German Bible for why the people, not even the Puritans, of KJV times did not make an uproar about it then..

 

[robycop3]

But your Bible versions have Him expressing those groans whereas the KJV & other modern Bibles have Him as making intercessions with groanings that cannot be uttered; hence the groan is not being uttered or heard.

So that is the distinction here for you to discern which one is not the truth from what is the truth.

Can the Holy Spirit utter out loud His groans or not?

The Holy Spirit can do ANYTHING, as He is God.
We don't know how the Personages of the Godhead communicate among themselves. We don't know how He communicates with angels. I believe He created speech through sound waves for humans, as God can communicate with anyone instantly & soundlessly.
Now, I don't know you plan to go on with this silliness, but it does nothing to sustain your KJVO myth.

Scripture that came from Jesus Christ for why the Holy Spirit brings into remembrance all Jesus has said to us. John 14:26

The Holy Spirit IS the Spirit of Christ & therefore the words of the Holy Spirit are NOT coming from Himself as the Holy Spirit's own words, but the words of Christ per John 16:13-15

Jesus sent the Holy Spirit in His own place as Teacher.

I thank Jesus Christ that you are confirming the truth in His words about the real God's gift of tongues as opposing the world's tongue where that supernatural tongue is just gibberish nonsense as it can be found in the world's religions, & idolatries & the occult ( Isaiah 8:19 ) & cults in Christianity.

Several pentecostal branches & "holiness" is particularly bad about it.

What you are not seeing is how cults in Christianity are connecting gibberish nonsense to the Holy Spirit praying by verbally uttering His groanings which is their assumption and not the truth, but some modern Bibles DO tetsify His groanings as being done out loud as this site testify in error as well.

Groaning Prayers, the Holy Spirit's Prayer, Romans 8

Romans 8:26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans. NIV

So in the plainness of the language in the NIV, wordless groans is being uttered. It cannot be read any other way for why many modern day tongue speakers see Romans 8:26 in that Bible version as supporting tongues for prayer language but it is opposing the truth in His words in John 16:13 of what all Bibles say that He cannot speak for Himself nor utter His own groanings from Himself but speak what He hears.

Like it or not, not all Bibles are aligning the truth in His words in John 16:13 to be found in Romans 8:26 in that Bible version, but the ones that confirms that not even His groanings can be uttered or heard, is keeping the truth in that Bible version.

Same ole nonsense. We don't know what the Holy Spirit's groanings consist of. You're not helping your false KJVO myth one bit.

Until you address that which opposes your application when Paul was referring to himself along with already saved believers by stating "us", you are in error for applying this to those being saved daily in the churches.

1 Corinthians 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. KJV

So Paul is not referring to those being saved daily in the churches since he is not being saved daily in the churches.

So are you saying that Paul is not saved yet? Because that is what the NIV is saying of you continue to apply that verse to mean.

1 Corinthians 1: 18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. NIV

There are 2 different messages among all the Bible versions. There is no way they are saying the same thing.

You're so obsessed & in thrall to the Satanic KJVO myth that you keep repeating something that was clearly explained earlier, and was actually explained years ago. You KJVOs are so desperate to try to find something...ANYTHING...to try to lend a little truth to your completely-false KJVO myth.

You cannot present any argument in favor of that myth that I haven't seen before & either refuted myself or saw it refuted by others. There's not a quark of truth in the KJVO myth.

"THE KJVO MYTH-PHONY AS A FORD CORVETTE !"

 

[robycop3]

Luke 22:1Now the feast of unleavened bread drew nigh, which is called the Passover. KJV

This is why many incorporate the 7 days of the unleavened bread with the first day of the Passover as you stated that there are 8 days of unleavened bread for why Luke refer to the first day of Passover as also the first day of unleavened bread.

One can surmised that is why they called the 7 days of unleavened bread also as Passover even though only on the Passover day is the lamb to be sacrifice, cooked, and eaten on that day with the unleavened bread whereas the 7 days of the unleavened bread, the lamb offering is not to be eaten but just the unleavened bread.

One can assume clarification was needed for understanding Acts 12:4 as not meaning the actual Passover day itself for why Easter is used once again in the KJV when the 1599 Genevan Bible had it as Passover, but we will never know for sure other than it is not wrong to use Easter in Acts 12:4 just because today's society dropped how they used Easter back in the KJV Bible and more importantly, back in Tyndale's English Bible & Martin Luther's German Bible for why the people, not even the Puritans, of KJV times did not make an uproar about it then..

Once again, no one would've thought twice about Easter in the KJV had it been used CONSISTENTLY for pascha; it would simply be chalked up as an archaism. But that ONE TIME,with no reason to have done so, is certainly al attention-getter & is someone's GOOF.

 

[Hark]

The Holy Spirit can do ANYTHING, as He is God.
We don't know how the Personages of the Godhead communicate among themselves.

Jesus told us how.

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. KJV

In all Bible versions, the Holy Spirit does not speak on His own authority, or initiative, and the NIV understood that to mean He can only speak what He hears.

John 16:13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. NIV

Compare what other bible versions are saying what John 16:13 means.

John 16:13The Spirit of truth will come and guide you in all truth. He will not speak His own words to you; He will speak what He hears, revealing to you the things to come .. The Voice

John 16:13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. ESV

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he shall guide you into all the truth: for he shall not speak from himself; but what things soever he shall hear, these shall he speak: and he shall declare unto you the things that are to come. ASV

So the Holy Spirit cannot speak from Himself but speak what He hears as the words are not His own words but from Christ Jesus as we read on in the KJV.

John 16:14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you. KJV

That which the Holy Spirit gives to us, comes from Jesus Christ. All that the Holy Spirit does, the Holy Spirit gives that credit & glory to the Son, the Lord Jesus Christ.

The fruits of the Spirit aka the fruits of righteousness comes from Jesus Christ as Jesus Christ is the One that will finish His work in us to the glory of God the Father.

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:....11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God. KJV

So whenever scripture testify to the Spirit speaking, it is under the understanding of how Jesus said He will speak in the first place as not from Himself as if they are His own words but speaking the words from Christ as all that He does is per Jesus Christ as the Head of the body & our Good Shepherd & Bridegroom to the glory of God the Father.

 

[Hark]

Once again, no one would've thought twice about Easter in the KJV had it been used CONSISTENTLY for pascha; it would simply be chalked up as an archaism. But that ONE TIME,with no reason to have done so, is certainly al attention-getter & is someone's GOOF.

If you recognize it as archaic as fallen out of use for today but not back then, for you to call it a goof is your goof.

 

[rlvaughn]

Although we have no source directly from the KJV translator as to why they had switched it back to Easter in the KJV when the 1599 Geneva Bible had it as Passover.

It is important to notice in the timeline that the original Geneva Bible was published in 1560, and already had Passover then. The 1568 Bishops Bible, which the KJV translators were to use as their primary guide, had Easter in Acts 12:4 (but also John 11:55).

If you recognize it as archaic as fallen out of use for today but not back then, for you to call it a goof is your goof.

He's just back to his old tricks. Can't help himself.

 

[robycop3]

If you recognize it as archaic as fallen out of use for today but not back then, for you to call it a goof is your goof.

The BIGGEST goof is to continue to use only a 400-yr-old translation. God has updated His word into TODAY'S language, just as He's done in the past.

 

[Hark]

It is important to notice in the timeline that the original Geneva Bible was published in 1560, and already had Passover then. The 1568 Bishops Bible, which the KJV translators were to use as their primary guide, had Easter in Acts 12:4 (but also John 11:55).

Thank you for sharing.

He's just back to his old tricks. Can't help himself.

Which goes to show that we should pray for him and others too.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 22 Abstain from all appearance of evil. 23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it. 25 Brethren, pray for us.

1 Corinthians 3:5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? 6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. 7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

Ephesians 6:10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might. 11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. 13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

 

[Eliyahu]

Luke 22:1Now the feast of unleavened bread drew nigh, which is called the Passover. KJV

This is why many incorporate the 7 days of the unleavened bread with the first day of the Passover as you stated that there are 8 days of unleavened bread for why Luke refer to the first day of Passover as also the first day of unleavened bread.

One can surmised that is why they called the 7 days of unleavened bread also as Passover even though only on the Passover day is the lamb to be sacrifice, cooked, and eaten on that day with the unleavened bread whereas the 7 days of the unleavened bread, the lamb offering is not to be eaten but just the unleavened bread.

One can assume clarification was needed for understanding Acts 12:4 as not meaning the actual Passover day itself for why Easter is used once again in the KJV when the 1599 Genevan Bible had it as Passover, but we will never know for sure other than it is not wrong to use Easter in Acts 12:4 just because today's society dropped how they used Easter back in the KJV Bible and more importantly, back in Tyndale's English Bible & Martin Luther's German Bible for why the people, not even the Puritans, of KJV times did not make an uproar about it then..

Hark,

As for Luke 22:1, this verse says DUB was approaching, then in 22:7 the day of DUB came.
These don't specify the day clearly, but verse 7 coincides with Mt 26:17 which says Te Prote

Τῇ δὲ πρώτῃ τῶν ἀζύμων προσῆλθον οἱ μαθηταὶ τῷ Ἰησοῦ λέγοντες αὐτῷ Ποῦ θέλεις ἑτοιμάσωμέν σοι φαγεῖν τὸ πάσχα

τη δε πρωτη is the Dative Form of the Protos πρωτοσ.
This prote, protos means 2 days before the DUB, because Jews couldn't perfectly hurry up
the hiding of the Leavens before the DUB. Therefore 2 days before DUB are the days of preparation hiding the Leavens. One day is the Passover and therefore it doesn't have to be mentioned as the Prote, but one day before Passover was called Prote or Protos.
Then we can solve the puzzle. On the Protos, one day before Passover, Disciples prepared
the Last Supper, and when the evening came, it was the evening of Passover and they had the supper. Lord Jesus was arrested in that night and in the morning He was sentenced to death, on the same day by Jewish Calendar, which was Passover. The Passover Lamb was slaughtered in the afternoon of the same day as Jesus was hung on the Cross, around the time when Jesus cried " Tetelestai"

So, Passover is not always used to represent the whole Feast period of DUB.
Rather, as we see in Luke 22:1, 7, Mt 26:17, DUB was used often to represent the whole Feast of DUB and Passover.
Strangely, in Acts 12:4, it was already DUB in the previous verse, but it mentioned the delay of Execution after Pascha. This Pascha must be after previously mentioned DUB.
Even this year the Passover is 27th March, then DUB ends on April 3 (Some people claim it is by 4th April), the next day is Easter April 4th.
2021 Feast Dates - The Messianic Light
So, the Easter is often around the end of DUB or right after DUB.
Now, let's imagine that Peter is arrested on the 31st March and it is already in the middle of DUB and the government say they are going to execute him after the Pascha?
Would you imagine that the execution will take place after the Passover? or after the Easter?
If it meant the after the end of DUB, it would have mentioned after the Days of Unleavened Bread because it was already mentioned in the previous verse.
But as we understand Pagan Festival is everywhere in the world and they celebrate Easter as if it is the Resurrection Day of Jesus. Likewise, even at the time of Acts 12:4, Ishtar Festival was everywhere in the Middle East and it was almost mixed with DUB or meant the end of DUB, then wouldn't it be called as Pascha because Assyrians called it Pasahu, Chaldeans called it Pischa, etc?

As we can read thru the facts that Tyndale translated Pascha into Ester, throughout the ages and centuries, the paganism surrounding Easter, Ishtar, Astarte, Asherah Artemis have been overwhelming in the spring festivals.

I would rather presume KJV translators dug into quite deep on this matter.

Thanks

Eliyahu

 

[Salty]

Six hour warning -
This thread will be closed no sooner than 130 am EST (Fri) / 1030 PST (Thr)

 

[Eliyahu]

Luke 22:1Now the feast of unleavened bread drew nigh, which is called the Passover. KJV

This is why many incorporate the 7 days of the unleavened bread with the first day of the Passover as you stated that there are 8 days of unleavened bread for why Luke refer to the first day of Passover as also the first day of unleavened bread.

One can surmised that is why they called the 7 days of unleavened bread also as Passover even though only on the Passover day is the lamb to be sacrifice, cooked, and eaten on that day with the unleavened bread whereas the 7 days of the unleavened bread, the lamb offering is not to be eaten but just the unleavened bread.

One can assume clarification was needed for understanding Acts 12:4 as not meaning the actual Passover day itself for why Easter is used once again in the KJV when the 1599 Genevan Bible had it as Passover, but we will never know for sure other than it is not wrong to use Easter in Acts 12:4 just because today's society dropped how they used Easter back in the KJV Bible and more importantly, back in Tyndale's English Bible & Martin Luther's German Bible for why the people, not even the Puritans, of KJV times did not make an uproar about it then..

Hark,


Pascha appears 29 times in 27 verses.( Mark 14:12 and John 11:55 have it twice)

KJV translators translated it into Passover 28 times but into Easter only in Acts 12:4

Did they make mistakes in Acts 12:4 while they were inerrant in other verses? Hardly!

They rendered it into Easter because they found some contradiction there.

Indeed, Passover can represent the Feast of DUB and DUB can Passover as well.

However, everyone knows, if we go into detail and more specifically, Passover precedes Days of Unleavened Bread.

When KJV translators notice both DUB and Passover in 2 connecting verses, they must have found the difficulty to translate

the later one first and the first one after the later festival.


This year we have the Passover on March 27, and Days of Unleavened Bread end on April 3.

Passover: March 27, DUB: Mar 28-Apr 3, Easter: April 4, 2021


Assuming Peter is arrested on the first April which is already DUB, Government intends to execute Peter after Passover?

Imagine Festival Ishtar, Easter was celebrated all over Middle East as Easter is celebrated all over the world today, while DUB is not so much popular among the people today.

If Pascha means both Passover and Easter, and it was already during DUB, the day after the Pascha( Passover) means after Passover?

What about after Easter, the pagan festival which comes at the end of DUB or right after the DUB?

The main point is that people would have not noticed or have skipped the problem of contradiction if KJV had translated it into Passover.


In conclusion, apparently there is a certain contradiction in the sequence of the feasts in Acts 12:3-4 if we go into detail precisely.

We’d better avoid the conclusion that KJV translators simply made the mistakes because there is an apparent problem with the contradiction.

Even if Passover can represent the whole period of DUB feast, there is a danger ignoring the then current practice of the paganism, the Festival of Ishtar, Easter which usually comes at the end of DUB.

On the final day, God may clearly explain us the True meaning of it.


Eliyahu

 

[Salty]

Six hour warning -
This thread will be closed no sooner than 130 am EST (Fri) / 1030 PST (Thr)

This thread is closed

 

[rlvaughn]

This thread is closed

Salty, in spite of your above post, it appears this thread did not get closed. You might want to take a look at that.

I noticed that because I came here to add the following information.

The English-to-Latin dictionary Promptorium Parvulorum Sive Clericorum first appeared circa 1440, and is attributed to Geoffrey the Grammarian, a friar who lived in Norfolk, England. In the 1865 printing at Archive.org (p. 143), we find Eesterne (Easter) means Pascha.