* >bump< *
Last edited by a moderator:
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Easy-Believism
- Thread starter evangelist6589
- Start date
* >bump< *
thisnumbersdisconnected
New Member
Shame on you for insisting someone deal with reality. :laugh:
Like I said earlier, Easy Believism is the most difficult thing in the world for men to believe.
Jesus said all you have to do is ask.
Jhn 4:10 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.
That's too easy you say. It can't be that easy. Surely there must be more to salvation than simply asking. No way, that's impossible.
:laugh:
Jesus said all you have to do is ask.
Jhn 4:10 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.
That's too easy you say. It can't be that easy. Surely there must be more to salvation than simply asking. No way, that's impossible.
:laugh:
I will avoid the unnecessary taunting smilie.
Repentance from sin was a primary aspect of Jesus' ministry as he ministered to those who were lost. In Luke chapter 5 Jesus told the Pharisees that “I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance." In his chapter on "Theories of Atonement" Erickson states “Humanity needs an openness to God, and an inclination to respond to His call to repentance.”(1) This call by Jesus was only and always extended to the lost and not the righteous. Jesus told the disciples in Luke chapter 24 that “repentance and forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem.” In Acts chapter 11 we are told that "…the Gentiles also God has granted repentance that leads to life." This is clearly understood to be eternal life or the salvation of God. Elwell asserts that Jesus continued the preaching of the call to repentance of John the Baptist “but adds significantly” to it by saying “the time has come.”(2) In 2 Corinthians chapter 7 Paul asserts that repentance leads to salvation.
There are a number of passages in acts where the preaching was inclusive of repentance (Acts 2:38, 3:19, 8:32, 17:30, 20:21, 26:20). It is a mistake to assume that because there are some recorded events where scripture did not include repentance that is somehow proof repentance is not necessary. There are a couple of reasons for this:
1. Not every event in scripture gives every minute detail of the event that is recorded. If there are other passages that do include repentance then it is safe to understand in the other recorded passages where it was not included that those being saved did understand it.
2. There are plenty of passages to include Jesus’s own words that show repentance is an important part of salvation.
3. The absence of repentance does not in any way mean that it is not necessary or that is was not understood by the recipient of salvation.
Paul further asserts that those people who have lived a life that can be seen as encompassed by sin are 1.) Members of churches, 2.) Not born again, 3.) And are in need of repentance, (1 Cor. 6:9-10, Rom. 8:12-13).
1. Millard J. Erickson, “Christian Theology” (Grand Rapids Baker Academic 2013)
2. Walter A. Elwell, “Evangelical Dictionary of Theology” (Grand Rapids Baker Academic 2001)
Repentance from sin was a primary aspect of Jesus' ministry as he ministered to those who were lost. In Luke chapter 5 Jesus told the Pharisees that “I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance." In his chapter on "Theories of Atonement" Erickson states “Humanity needs an openness to God, and an inclination to respond to His call to repentance.”(1) This call by Jesus was only and always extended to the lost and not the righteous. Jesus told the disciples in Luke chapter 24 that “repentance and forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem.” In Acts chapter 11 we are told that "…the Gentiles also God has granted repentance that leads to life." This is clearly understood to be eternal life or the salvation of God. Elwell asserts that Jesus continued the preaching of the call to repentance of John the Baptist “but adds significantly” to it by saying “the time has come.”(2) In 2 Corinthians chapter 7 Paul asserts that repentance leads to salvation.
There are a number of passages in acts where the preaching was inclusive of repentance (Acts 2:38, 3:19, 8:32, 17:30, 20:21, 26:20). It is a mistake to assume that because there are some recorded events where scripture did not include repentance that is somehow proof repentance is not necessary. There are a couple of reasons for this:
1. Not every event in scripture gives every minute detail of the event that is recorded. If there are other passages that do include repentance then it is safe to understand in the other recorded passages where it was not included that those being saved did understand it.
2. There are plenty of passages to include Jesus’s own words that show repentance is an important part of salvation.
3. The absence of repentance does not in any way mean that it is not necessary or that is was not understood by the recipient of salvation.
Paul further asserts that those people who have lived a life that can be seen as encompassed by sin are 1.) Members of churches, 2.) Not born again, 3.) And are in need of repentance, (1 Cor. 6:9-10, Rom. 8:12-13).
1. Millard J. Erickson, “Christian Theology” (Grand Rapids Baker Academic 2013)
2. Walter A. Elwell, “Evangelical Dictionary of Theology” (Grand Rapids Baker Academic 2001)
Last edited by a moderator:
At first, repentance was preached exclusively to the Jews. When John the Baptist preached it, Jews were to repent, or change their mind regarding the coming of the Messiah--it is nigh! (Acts 13:24)
When Jesus preached it, it was always to the Jews. Jews really needed a change of mind regarding the Messiah. Gentiles? They had many gods, and no single messiah. Therefore, Gentiles were told to believe. It is not until later that Paul says repentance is for the Gentiles as well.
Repentance and belief is the same thing. Repentance does carry an element of sorrow for sins but is not the main thought.
To say that if you preach belief and not repentance then your methodology is wrong is an incorrect statement.
When Jesus preached it, it was always to the Jews. Jews really needed a change of mind regarding the Messiah. Gentiles? They had many gods, and no single messiah. Therefore, Gentiles were told to believe. It is not until later that Paul says repentance is for the Gentiles as well.
Repentance and belief is the same thing. Repentance does carry an element of sorrow for sins but is not the main thought.
To say that if you preach belief and not repentance then your methodology is wrong is an incorrect statement.
SolaSaint
Well-Known Member
You may be right. I used to live in Joplin and we were members of a great traditional SBC church. The only one like it here is the one we attend now, but there are changes in the air. I'm worried. Maybe will come to KC and visit ya..
thisnumbersdisconnected
New Member
Love to have you. Holler before you head out ... we'll get the guest room ready. :thumbsup:
First, I showed it was not just to the Jews. Second, how in the world can one preach about the cross and not be compelled to bring into the mix the need for repentance is beyond me. It is just not reasonable.
SolaSaint
Well-Known Member
Don't forget the KC style BBQ....lol:thumbs:
convicted1
Guest
:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbs::thumbsup:
I said it was preached to the Jews AT FIRST, and later was preached to the Gentiles.
Never said it wasn't needed. I said there are many instances in the Bible where it is not mentioned.
convicted1
Guest
Can anyone preach the message of the cross w/o repentance being involved?
Think we need to define what we are repenting of first!
Is it for all known sins, to stop doing them first before coming to Jesus, as many seem to hold to, or is it my understanding, need to repent of trying to get saved by own efforts/good works? repent of trying to merit it thru keeping of the Law?
You need to rephrase the question, but I'll take a stab at it anyway.
Yes, a person can peach the message of the cross without repentance. We've all seen it attempted.
Yes, repentance is a necessary part of salvation and should be preached whenever a salvation message is given.
Ok well your post seemed to imply otherwise.
InTheLight
using your false idea...were these people not saved because there is no mention of being born from above,ie,born again?
So, in your world these people are false converts because they weren't preached born from above?
1. The Phillipian jailer: "What must I do to be saved?" "Believe on the Lord Jesus and you will be saved." [no mention of born again]
3. The Ethiopian Eunuch Acts 8:35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning at this Scripture, preached Jesus to him.
36 Now as they went down the road, they came to some water. And the eunuch said, “See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?”
37 Then Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.”
And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.” [no born again preached]
4. The thief on the cross. "Today you shall be with me in paradise." [no mention of born again]
5. Hundreds of people at the church at Rome. Romans 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” [no mention of born again]
6. Paul didn't preach born again to Felix in Acts 24: 24 And after some days, when Felix came with his wife Drusilla, who was Jewish, he sent for Paul and heard him concerning the faith in Christ. 25 Now as he reasoned about righteousness, self-control, and the judgment to come, Felix was afraid and answered, “Go away for now; when I have a convenient time I will call for you.”
7. Stephen did not preach born again in his lengthy sermon in Acts 7.
8. When Jesus appeared to Saul on the road to Damascus, born again was not mentioned.
9. In 1 Cor. 15, the classic summary of the gospel is given by the apostle Paul, and the word born again is not used.
using your false idea...were these people not saved because there is no mention of being born from above,ie,born again?
So, in your world these people are false converts because they weren't preached born from above?
1. The Phillipian jailer: "What must I do to be saved?" "Believe on the Lord Jesus and you will be saved." [no mention of born again]
3. The Ethiopian Eunuch Acts 8:35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning at this Scripture, preached Jesus to him.
36 Now as they went down the road, they came to some water. And the eunuch said, “See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?”
37 Then Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.”
And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.” [no born again preached]
4. The thief on the cross. "Today you shall be with me in paradise." [no mention of born again]
5. Hundreds of people at the church at Rome. Romans 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” [no mention of born again]
6. Paul didn't preach born again to Felix in Acts 24: 24 And after some days, when Felix came with his wife Drusilla, who was Jewish, he sent for Paul and heard him concerning the faith in Christ. 25 Now as he reasoned about righteousness, self-control, and the judgment to come, Felix was afraid and answered, “Go away for now; when I have a convenient time I will call for you.”
7. Stephen did not preach born again in his lengthy sermon in Acts 7.
8. When Jesus appeared to Saul on the road to Damascus, born again was not mentioned.
9. In 1 Cor. 15, the classic summary of the gospel is given by the apostle Paul, and the word born again is not used.
You make a legitimate point based on the type of argument he used.
Yes, but isn't being born from above the same meaning the Bible gives to a sinner now being saved?
Not sure what that has to do with what I was speaking of.