Elect does not mean "saved at birth"

[Dale-c]

You have suggested that for me to disagree with your words might cause Almighty God to infer that I am blaspheming Holy Spirit. You have compared yourself to the Apostle Paul. You have called me "swine" not fit to throw your "pearls" before.

Now you say that you know I do not have a relationship with God.

I leave you, sir, to swim in the sea of your own self-deception.

I took a ten day vacation and this thread is still going?Wow.
I appreciate your patience with SkyPair Canady.
You are getting as far as I did but at least we tried.

 

[skypair]

Now you say that you know I do not have a relationship with God.

Actually, I had hoped you would re-examine your relationship with God, canady. It is so very true that when husband and whfe don't respond to one another or one is unresponsive, the marriage is pretty much dead.

Here you have given me cause to believe that God never responds to you. Would you like to take back that remark? And if you do, how does He respond when you pray? How did He respond when you believed? Has praying changed your life? Any miracles? Or have you pretty much been like the acorn -- growing up into what you were designed to be in a very normal fashion for an "elect" one?

skypair

 

[skypair]

SP , how dare you tell Canadyjd he has no relationship with God ! You are out of control .

Do you think canady is experiencing the fullness of the Christian life if God doesn't even respond to him? That was his admission, not my accusation. Now I see no effort at all on his part to deny that God is unresponsive to him. Pretty soon that can only lead to skepticism and suspicion on his part (actually, already has).

So, in the interest of developing a healthy relationship, why don't we let canady answer for himself so we can get to the bottom of this.

skypair

 

[canadyjd]

skypair. Your personal attacks on me are nothing more than an attempt to distract from the obvious intellectual and theological thrashing you are taking.

Your beliefs are contrary to scripture. I have demonstrated that fact many times from God's Word. You, however, never let facts concerning God's Word stop you from believing what you want to believe.

I pray that Holy Spirit, according to His will, may someday convict you of your disgusting pride and convince you of your error. Until such a time, I am certain you will continue to swim in the sea of your own self-deception.

I refuse to respond to your insulting comments concerning my relationship with God. I will never allow a thread to become a debate on whether I am saved or not.

Go jump in your sea.

Peace to youraying:

 

[Dale-c]

I pray that Holy Spirit, according to His will, may someday convict you of your disgusting pride and convince you of your error. Until such a time, I am certain you will continue to swim in the sea of your own self-deception.

I have come to this conclusion about many people like SkyPair already, including SkyPair.

I have to keep reminding myself that I was once just as ignorant.
Thankfully, God took the blinders off of my eyes and took about 4 years to chisel away my pride to admit what the Bible so plainly teaches.

 

[webdog]

Thankfully, God took the blinders off of my eyes and took about 4 years to chisel away my pride to admit what the Bible so plainly teaches.

Yeah, it's so "plain" that the majority of believers don't believe it.

 

[Dale-c]

Yeah, it's so "plain" that the majority of believers don't believe it.

The majority are ignorant. And the greater majority in our day believe in no God at all.
Why is it surprising that the majority of people prefer to think of themselves as not being totally depraved?

 

[npetreley]

Yeah, it's so "plain" that the majority of believers don't believe it.

That hasn't always been true. It is usually true, though. Here's why:

Nothing riles the natural man more and brings to the surface his innate , inveterate enmity against God than to press upon him the eternality , the freeness , and the absolute sovereignty of divine grace . That God should have formed His purpose from everlasting , without in anywise consulting the creature , is too abasing for the unbroken heart . That grace cannot be earned or won by any efforts of man is too self-emptying for self-righteousness . That grace singles out whom it pleases to be its favored objects arouses hot protests from haughty rebels . The clay rises up against the Potter and asks, "Why hast Thou made me thus ?" A lawless insurrectionist dares to call into question the justice of divine sovereignty .
The distinguishing grace of God is seen in saving that people whom He has sovereignly singled out to be His high favorites . By distinguishing we mean that grace that discriminates , makes differences , chooses some and passes by others . It was distinguishing grace which selected Abraham from the midst of his adolatrous neighbors and made him "the friend of God" ( James 2:23 ) . Distinguishing grace saaved "publicans and sinners" but said of the religious Pharisees , "Let them alone" ( Matthew 15:14 ) . Nowhere does the glory of God's free and sovereign grace shine more conspiciously than in the unworthiness and unlikeliness of its objects .

 

[Dale-c]

I recognize that but I don't remember where I read it. Could you help me out?

 

[npetreley]

I recognize that but I don't remember where I read it. Could you help me out?

It's A. W. Pink. I copied it from the Walkington's Works thread.

 

[Dale-c]

Was it in the Sovereignty of God? I have that Audiobook but it has been a while since I listened to it.
It was excellent. It really helped me solidify what I had been reading.

 

[npetreley]

Was it in the Sovereignty of God? I have that Audiobook but it has been a while since I listened to it.
It was excellent. It really helped me solidify what I had been reading.

Rippon has been posting quotes in that thread for quite a while. I seem to recall he mentioned it wasn't all from Sovereignty of God (which I've read and really appreciated), but I don't recall which books he used. I'm pretty sure he mentions the source(s) somewhere in the thread.

 

[webdog]

The majority are ignorant. And the greater majority in our day believe in no God at all.
Why is it surprising that the majority of people prefer to think of themselves as not being totally depraved?

You are lumping MANY godly men into your "ignorant" comment. The minority of BELIEVERS (not humans) believe reformed theology for a reason...it's false doctrine. What you call totally depraved and what Scripture calls totally depraved are night and day.

 

[webdog]

That hasn't always been true. It is usually true, though. Here's why:

OK...I'll take Pink's word for it He must be the authority...

 

[Dale-c]

OK...I'll take Pink's word for it He must be the authority...

Study a little history..read confession from about 300 years ago. See what you find out.
Read baptist confessions such as the LBC or the westminster or even others such as Lutheran etc.
But that is a total diversion.
While I would doubt any new revelation, any new doctrine, the doctrines of grace are hardly new.

You are lumping MANY godly men into your "ignorant" comment.

Godly or not, and many I am sure are, they are still wrong.
I am also rather sure we might have a differing list of who's who in the Godly men list.

As an aside, being from Cleveland, are you familiar with Alistair Begg?
I am pretty sure he is of a calvinistic persuasion.

 

[webdog]

Study a little history..read confession from about 300 years ago. See what you find out.
Read baptist confessions such as the LBC or the westminster or even others such as Lutheran etc.
But that is a total diversion.
While I would doubt any new revelation, any new doctrine, the doctrines of grace are hardly new.

None of this has anything to do with Pink's comment given by npetreley.

Godly or not, and many I am sure are, they are still wrong.

You are entitled to your personal opinion...but it is just that. If it were as clear cut as you make it, there would be no debate.

As an aside, being from Cleveland, are you familiar with Alistair Begg?
I am pretty sure he is of a calvinistic persuasion.

I am familiar with him, I listen to him on our local radio. I wouldn't dare call him ignorant as you did with every believer who doesn't see eye to eye with you, though. Last time I checked, Alistair Begg has two nostrils the same as me...he's only a man.
You mentioned your pride was chiseld away. Referring to every believer (the majority, btw) who are not calvinists as "ignorant" is a VERY prideful accusation to make, IMO.

 

[npetreley]

You are entitled to your personal opinion...but it is just that. If it were as clear cut as you make it, there would be no debate.

That's pretty much what I would have said about Jesus when I was unsaved.

 

[webdog]

I hope you are not referring to me as being unsaved...

 

[npetreley]

I hope you are not referring to me as being unsaved...

Not at all. I'm quite confident you are saved. I mean that to a person who is blind to the truth about anything (including Jesus), everything seems debatable.

Do you think the truth about Jesus is debatable now, though? I don't. It seems pretty obvious that we have the truth. Yet the world is filled with people who are either confident Jesus is not who He said He is, and people who think it's all still very debatable. That doesn't mean it is debatable.

 

[Dale-c]

I wouldn't dare call him ignorant as you did with every believer who doesn't see eye to eye with you, though. Last time I checked, Alistair Begg has two nostrils the same as me...he's only a man.
You mentioned your pride was chiseld away. Referring to every believer (the majority, btw) who are not calvinists as "ignorant" is a VERY prideful accusation to make, IMO.

I never once called every believer ignorant just because they do not see eye to eye with me.

I did say and will say again more clearly that any believer who is wrong about the doctrine of grace is either ignorant or dishonest or perhaps wrong for another reason I have missed but they are wrong.

As for pride and arrogance (something I have been guilty of way too many times)
That is what believing you have some good in your self is...prideful, arrogant.