However, many will hear, “I never knew you,” He will not say, “I once knew you, but I no longer do.” If they were in the book of life, how could the Christ make such a statement as that?
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Elect or Non-elect?
- Thread starter Pastor_Bob
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No doubt in my mind this is talking about an elect child of God... Can I pose one question if the word of God is in their heart how did it get there?... The heart according to scripture has to be changed by the Holy Spirit until one can receive it... And if you are saying that the Satan has the power over the sinless shed blood of Jesus Christ to those who are his own, who he bought and paid for on a cross, then tell me how one thief on the cross was saved, never having heard it?... We know he was saved because Jesus told him he was going where he is... Here is something from John Gill
Then cometh the wicked one,
Satan, the devil, ( Mark 4:15 ) ( Luke 8:12 ) who is, by way of eminency, so called, being the first creature that became wicked, and the worst that is so; who is entirely and immutably wicked; whose whole work and employment lies in wickedness; and who, was the original cause of the wickedness that is among men, and which he is continually instigating and promoting: so the Jews frequently call F17 Samael, by whom they mean the devil, Samael, (evdh) , "the wicked". This evil spirit, as soon as ever he observes one hearing the word, especially that has not been used to attend, comes immediately, and, as he is hearing,
catcheth away that which is sown in his heart:
not the grace of God, which being once implanted in the heart, can never be taken away by Satan; but the word which was sown, not in his understanding, in a spiritual sense, nor even in his affections, so as to love it, delight, and take pleasure in it; much less in his heart, so as to become the engrafted word able to save, or so as to believe in it, and in Christ revealed by it; but in his memory, and that but very slightly neither; for the heart sometimes means the memory; see ( Luke 2:51 ) . Besides, the word only fell "upon", not "into" his heart, as into the good ground, as the metaphor in the parable shows; and it made no impression, nor was it inwardly received, but as soon as ever dropped, was "catched" away by the enemy; not by frightening him out of it, by persecution, as the stony ground hearer; nor by filling the mind with worldly cares, as the thorny ground hearer; but by various suggestions and temptations, darting in thoughts, presenting objects, and so diverted his mind from the word, and fixed his attention elsewhere; which is done at once, at an unawares, secretly, and without any notice of the person himself; so that the word is entirely lost to him, and he does not so much as remember the least thing he has been hearing.
You preachers that preach the word and you other brethren I thought you might be interested in a link I enclosed of a sermon by Spurgeon... The Parable Of The Sower... As in the comments from John Gill I found it most informative... Those who disagree that is fine but I think we should look at this from a different perspective... Brother Glen
https://www.spurgeongems.org/vols4-6/chs308.pdf
This is not believing on the Gospel as the type of "seed" the soils are the hearts showing different responses but only some seed took root to belief . This is the difference in accepting the Gospel, not loosing it or any type of election
God knows all, this "knew" is a true relationship" now broken by sin. God is saying their relationship was false or over as never existed.
Adam "knew" his wife again. is the sexual relations.
Again, the Christ said He NEVER knew them. Knowing them is an intimate relationship, as you correctly stated. If He never knew them intimately, they were never in the book of life to begin with.
I think it is a Book Of Creation, or Life as all created beings those who had life
Where is the book of creation found in the Bible?
Rockson
Active Member
Don't read anywhere though where he says to the withered up branches they were never in him.
Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me. “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. Jn 15:4-5
He didn't say if you never get in me you will wither up and die. He said if you leave me you will.
It is not , the Lambs Book Of Life must be list of created beings ??
He said, I am the vine , ye are the branches, We must have been attached to remain in Him..
Rockson
Active Member
Yes, that's what I meant and I wasn't as clear as I should have been. They must have been attached to remain in him.
If you have never been attached then there is no " 6If you do not remain in me, " As in they are attached and remain in him right now.
We were attached. according to Jesus
Dave G
Well-Known Member
He did?
Then their obedience saved them?
" What then? are we better [than they]? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
10 as it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 there is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
13 Their throat [is] an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps [is] under their lips:
14 whose mouth [is] full of cursing and bitterness:
15 their feet [are] swift to shed blood:
16 destruction and misery are in their ways:
17 and the way of peace have they not known:
18 there is no fear of God before their eyes." ( Romans 3:10-18 )
Where does this fit in, then?
If there are none righteous ( obedient ), and it is not by a work of righteousness that one is saved ( Titus 3:4-7 ), then how can God base His decision to save on anything a man does?
Which is it? The Book of Life? The book of creation? Are these two the same book? Are they two entirely different books? You’re all over the place. I can’t keep up with your mojo.
it is simple, created beings have life, so perhaps the Book of Life is those who have been created and have life.
sounds like you may have a personal problem
No problem other than trying to decipher your posts. You said there was a book of creation. I asked you where it is found in the Bible? You then said the Book of Life must be the life of created beings, and answered with a question mark.
The Book of Life has those who are saved in it. So, by using your logic, everybody is created saved, then they become lost. Once lost, their names are blotted out. Then those who become saved again, have their names re-written in that Book. You wanna go this route?
I am not the one with the personal problem, sport. You’re the one with a theological problem.
Perhaps Paul meant that in God's eyes
none are truly and perfectly righteous,
enough to satisfy Him.
Meanwhile, God determined to chose some people
before the foundation of the world.
Who might these be?
How about those who loved Him,
and tried their best to obey His commandments?
Also, do you believe that Paul's warning to the believers
in Rome (in my signature) supports OSAS?
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I think it is a lack of knowledge of logical statements.
It is conjecture that the Book Of Life is only a book of created beings, no biblical scripture.
so follow this:
If you are created being, your name is there.
I do not limit this to a salvation book, as you seem to be, It is the Book of Life , a list who has eternal (spiritual) life.
Why does one need to be saved if they never sinned? Are angels and cherubim in the book, they were created and have life,
If this Book applied to all of creation, then only those whose names are blotted out are missing.
Names are never mentioned to be added but blotted out. The blotted out names do not have eternal life , another word for lost or doomed.
So all creations is listed there, some are condemned, and if they do overcome, their names are not removed. This implies some names ARE blotted out,
This about all we know, scripturally.
You are aware, are you not, that there is a difference between creation (direct) and procreation (indirect)?
Was not considering procreation at all. I was only considering eternal spiritual beings as being in the Book
The names are certainly spiritual in nature since most references are from in Heaven as shown in Rev.
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